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Iracundus wrote:

 angelofvengeance wrote:

master sheol wrote:
Khorne codex without Kharn?
GARBAGE!
Thanks GW for making me spare the money for this useless release and for the Khorne demons models too!

Well since he's already in the main Codex, it'd be silly to print his rules twice don't you think? I suspect there will be an allowance for Kharn in there anyways given that HE'S ON THE COVER.

That's not him. It is just a generic Champion of Khorne.

Kharn has at least one bare arm, the Khornate bunny ears on his helmet, and Gorechild is a chainaxe whereas the cover shows a warped power axe, with distinctive power cabling.

He's on a special edition cover.

Hahaha, that makes it even better if he's not in the book. Also no Skull Taker either. What the hell.

From Iuchiban on Warseer (with consolidating of some things by me) :
First proof the person who posted all this has the codex:

The main rule of the codex is "Blood for the blood good":

You get "blood points for every unit you destroy and for every unit you are destroyed. Carachters slained in challenges generate blood points as well.

At the beginning of your turn you can spend those blood points (effects lasts till the beginning of your next turn)

1 Adamantium will

2 Rage + Furious Charge

3 Feel no pain

4 +1A

5 Summon 8 bloodletters of 5 Flesh hounds

6 Summon 3 Bloodcrushers or one Skull cannon

7 One carácter becomes a Demon Prince (LD test, if failed becomes a Spawn instead)

8 One carácter becomes a Bloodthirster (Same as above)

Once you spend a blood points you loose them all. For example if you have 5 and spend 4 for Feel No Pain, the left point is lost.

Addendum: Summoned units don't dissapear unless destroyed

Karn is NOT in the codex but Bezerkers are.

Artefacts are:

One Axe that you have to count the wounds infflicted with it:
1-2 +1S
3-4 Rampage
5-7 Sx2
8+ Instant Death
Effects are acumulative

One armour that gives you 3+, Feel no Pain and Eternal warrior

One Rune that gives bearer adamantium will, and you can explode it. If so, till your next turn, in a 24" bubble, all pyshic test get perils with any doublé

One Sword that gives you a blood point for every wound

One helmet that gives you fear and any 6 to hit generates an additional attack

One Axe that when bearer dies becomes a Bloodthirster but and the end your turn loses D3 wounds (Only inv saves allowed)

Addendums:
Axes are AP2 and Unwieldy +1S, the Sword is AP3

Bloodthirsters can not take these options.

Limit one Artefact per model.

Daemon Princes can take Artefacts.

Is it only units in the Khorne Daemonkin detachment that generate points when they die, or is it any unit in the controlling player's army?

Only the Demonkin units

Juggernauts for Zerkers?

Seriuosly? They can't.

There is Detachment similar to the Decurion: The Blood host

Mandatory: Slaughter cult (1 HQ, 2-8 Bezerkers, Bloodletters or Chaos Space Marines in any combination), 1-4 Possessed, 0-2 Spawn units, 0-2 Cultits

Benefits: Reroll Warlord trait and generates 1 Blood point every turn. When spending blood points you can for free get another bonus with less value than the first one.

Then optional:

Lord of Slaughter: 1 BT

Brazen Onslaught: 1-4 units of Termis, 2-4 units of Bloodcrushers (+1A in CaC if opponent has more models in that combat)

Khorne Bloodstorm: 2-4 units of Raptors, 1-4 units of Warp Talons, 0-1 Helldrake (+1S of HoW attacks)

Gorepack: 2-4 Chaos Bikers, 1-4 Fleshhounds (Fleshhouds get HoW, and Bikers reroll to wound their HoW attacks

Charnel Cohort: 1 HQ (not a BT), 2-8 Bloodletters, 1-4 Fleshhounds, 1-4 Bloodcrushers, 0-4 Skull Cannon (Fear tests with -2LD, if HQ is in reserves may reroll to enter the battle. Other units do not scatter if enter reserves at 6" of the HQ

Warlod traits

1. Warlord and all units at 12" reroll distance to assault

2. Warlord has Zealot

3. Warlord gets +1A

4. After killing and enemy carácter in a challenge, you get 2 Blood points instead of only 1.

5. Warlord gets preferred enemy

6. Warlord automatically passes the LD test if he is chosen for the 7. and 8. of the Blood points table. (Becoming a Daemon Prince or a BT)

RE: Rules changes

Lords of Skulls same

Bloodcrushers same

No modified FOC

Bezerker Champion and Aspiring champions have Access to the Axe of Khorne.

Spawns, possesed and helbrutes are all the same. Only thing is that they all have Mark of Khorne. Fiends are Daemons of Khorne.

There are no rewards for Daemons.

Termis in the codex do have the Mark of Khorne. That's all. The rest of the unit entry is the same.

[Daemons] have access to the loci.

[The Mark of Khorne is] in the point cost, but is not for free. For example a CSM is 15 points

RE: What's in the codex:

Units in the codex are:

HQ: Chaos Lord, Daemon Prince, Herald, Blood Throne, Skulltaker, 3x BT
Troops: Chaos cultists, CSM, Zerkers, Bloodletters
Elite: Possessed, Chaos Termis, Bloodcrushers
FA: Spawns, Rhino, Bikerts, Flesh hounds, Raptors, Talons, Heldrake
HS: Land Raider, Fiends, Defiler, Soul Grinder, Helbrute, Skull cannon
LoW: Lord of Skulls

Zerkers and CSM can take Rhinos

RE: What's different about this versus running a MoK CSM Army allied with Daemons:

The differences are The blood points mechanic and new Artefacts. By the way, I cannot see any rule preventing Daemons IC joining non-Daemon units. The BT are unique as well. The one with the two handed axe attacks with D Strength but at I 1.

Addendum: All daemon units have Fearless, instead of Instability.

So can you confirm that daemonic characters can join non daemonic unis (and vice versa) and whether they benefit from locus and other such rules.

Yes to both.

RE: Heralds in HQ slots:

Only one per HQ option

Looks like the Aspiring Champions having access to the Axe of Khorne is a pretty solid fact:

Kharne had an entry, but destroyed it before it reached publication.

They'll try again with a dataslate allowing him to lead the Rivers of Blood guard, and sacrifice them to summon daemonkin units to the field. Mysteriously, his new model will include a kitten.

I guess those are the only formations? That kind of is weird because the Decurion allowed you to take all units that were in the codex.

Oh well was hoping for a Mauler fiend Soulgrinder / Machines of Khorne formation.

Yeah just reread the description of the codex only 5 formations.

Could we possibly expect an update from Forgeworld which will add Decimators with Dedication of Khorne and Blood Slaughterers to the Khorne Daemonkin codex?

Do you guys think it's because Mutilators are "only" 55 points that they aren't included in a "Daemonkin" codex?

Kharn all ready has a dataslate the Butcherhorde so not sure why people are moaning he's not in this book. It's not a World Eaters codex so why would he be in there.

Being able to mix Maulerfiends and Soulgrinders in the same Heavy Support along with mixing Chaos Bikes and Flesh Hounds in the Fast Attack is really really really good. I dunno if that's been pointed out.. but this is a legitimate army :

Daemon Prince w/ Blood Sword Thingie
2 x 3 Termicide
2 x Blood Letters
2 to 3 Hel Drakes
3 Mauler Fiends

Gore Pack
4 Bike Squads
4 Flesh hounds

@GiraffeX: I don't quite follow the logic of these arguments. Kharn is in the Chaos Space Marines codex because he's a Chaos Space Marine and so this would be the right codex of all the "main" codices. The Khorne Daemonkin codex is a more "narrow" codex in the sense that all the units in this codex has more things in common than the Chaos Daemons codex and Chaos Space Marines codex each - the same thing as the Space Marine Chapters which get their own supplement.

Units in the Khorne Daemonkin codex are somehow connected to Khorne and no other Chaos god and so Kharn the Betrayer would have this in common with the rest of the units in the codex and would thus fit perfectly in.

I thought this was obvious...

Nobody is arguing that it's a World Eaters codex because no daemon of Khorne belongs to the World Eaters and just because a Chaos Space Marine has a Mark of Khorne doesn't mean he belongs to the World Eaters legion - I thought this also were obvious...

You come at me with your Kharne should not be part of the codex because he's a World Eater " Logic " and I just wanna throw your figures on the ground.












But yeah I guess it does make a little bit of sense.

 GiraffeX wrote:
Kharn all ready has a dataslate the Butcherhorde so not sure why people are moaning he's not in this book. It's not a World Eaters codex so why would he be in there.

No, it's not a World Eaters codex, it's a followers of Khorne codex, and who is the single most famous Khorne worshiping space marine? KHARN.

That's like creating a Nurgle book without Typhus, but having plague marines in there, or if the Black Legion supplement barred you from using Abadonn because reasons, or if they came out with an Ulthwe specific codex and decided that Eldrad shouldn't be in it.

Kharn is the name you think of when you think of the followers of Khorne in 40K.

Chaospling wrote:
@GiraffeX: I don't quite follow the logic of these arguments. Kharn is in the Chaos Space Marines codex because he's a Chaos Space Marine and so this would be the right codex of all the "main" codices. The Khorne Daemonkin codex is a more "narrow" codex in the sense that all the units in this codex has more things in common than the Chaos Daemons codex and Chaos Space Marines codex each - the same thing as the Space Marine Chapters which get their own supplement.

Units in the Khorne Daemonkin codex are somehow connected to Khorne and no other Chaos god and so Kharn the Betrayer would have this in common with the rest of the units in the codex and would thus fit perfectly in.

I thought this was obvious...

Nobody is arguing that it's a World Eaters codex because no daemon of Khorne belongs to the World Eaters and just because a Chaos Space Marine has a Mark of Khorne doesn't mean he belongs to the World Eaters legion - I thought this also were obvious...

Your missing my point.

The Chaos Space Marine codex is a generic codex that contains the building blocks to play whatever Chaos faction that you desire, hence why it has the prominent characters from each of the traitor legions.

Unless there is a specific codex for each of the main traitor legions which I doubt, you will never see one of the named characters in a codex that is not based around said legion.

As I say Kharn already has his own dataslate which fits him perfectly.

Forge World are covering this exact theme with their Horus Heresy books, the named characters stay with their legions.

If Kharn were to be included in a codex it would be a World Eaters supplement, not even a full codex.

 GiraffeX wrote:

Chaospling wrote:
@GiraffeX: I don't quite follow the logic of these arguments. Kharn is in the Chaos Space Marines codex because he's a Chaos Space Marine and so this would be the right codex of all the "main" codices. The Khorne Daemonkin codex is a more "narrow" codex in the sense that all the units in this codex has more things in common than the Chaos Daemons codex and Chaos Space Marines codex each - the same thing as the Space Marine Chapters which get their own supplement.

Units in the Khorne Daemonkin codex are somehow connected to Khorne and no other Chaos god and so Kharn the Betrayer would have this in common with the rest of the units in the codex and would thus fit perfectly in.

I thought this was obvious...

Nobody is arguing that it's a World Eaters codex because no daemon of Khorne belongs to the World Eaters and just because a Chaos Space Marine has a Mark of Khorne doesn't mean he belongs to the World Eaters legion - I thought this also were obvious...

Your missing my point.

The Chaos Space Marine codex is a generic codex that contains the building blocks to play whatever Chaos faction that you desire, hence why it has the prominent characters from each of the traitor legions.

Unless there is a specific codex for each of the main traitor legions which I doubt, you will never see one of the named characters in a codex that is not based around said legion.

As I say Kharn already has his own dataslate which fits him perfectly.

Forge World are covering this exact theme with their Horus Heresy books, the named characters stay with their legions.

If Kharn were to be included in a codex it would be a World Eaters supplement, not even a full codex.

Yes we agree on the main Chaos Space Marines codex but a World Eaters codex would have units which have theme/aspect "World Eaters" in common and so Kharn would be in such a codex. Codex: Khorne Daemonkin have Khorne in common and so Obliterators and Mutilators with the Mark of Khorne (like Warp Talons) should be in such a codex like Kharn should be, not because he's a World Eater but because he has the Mark of Khorne... Why do you think he should only be in a legion specific codex and not a god specific or campaign specific codex?

 GiraffeX wrote:

The Chaos Space Marine codex is a generic codex that contains the building blocks to play whatever Chaos faction that you desire, hence why it has the prominent characters from each of the traitor legions.

I laughed really hard when I read this line.

Really hard. Tears were falling down my face for reasons.

Lost all credibility there, bud.

Hollismason wrote:
It doesn't make any sense to me at all that the most famous Chaos Space Marine of Khorne and of the Berserkers would not be in the codex dedicated to the God he's Fighting for, that and SKull Taker etc.. not being in seems just dumb.

There's just no reason : Like what? Why is he not in the Codex?

Maybe the reason is called Supplement: Eater of Worlds..

Chaospling wrote:
Why do you think he should only be in a legion specific codex and not a god specific or campaign specific codex?

Why do you think a Daemonkin Codex needs to include every singly thing ever released with a relation to Khorne?

Not everything with a Mark of Khorne must be a good fit for a Khorne Daemonkin-themed codex. Abaddon and Skarbrand the Exiled One (nomen est omen) seem to be the most obvious examples, but I think it was smart to keep Kharn out of it too.

drbored wrote:

 GiraffeX wrote:

The Chaos Space Marine codex is a generic codex that contains the building blocks to play whatever Chaos faction that you desire, hence why it has the prominent characters from each of the traitor legions.

I laughed really hard when I read this line.

Really hard. Tears were falling down my face for reasons.

Lost all credibility there, bud.

That's exactly what the Chaos Codex is , the supplements are the specific legion. The Chaos Codex is just "Walgreen brand".

 GiraffeX wrote:
Kharn all ready has a dataslate the Butcherhorde so not sure why people are moaning he's not in this book. It's not a World Eaters codex so why would he be in there.

I couldn't agree more.

Wonderwolf wrote:

Chaospling wrote:
Why do you think he should only be in a legion specific codex and not a god specific or campaign specific codex?

Why do you think a Daemonkin Codex needs to include every singly thing ever released with a relation to Khorne?

Not everything with a Mark of Khorne must be a good fit for a Khorne Daemonkin-themed codex. Abaddon and Skarbrand the Exiled One (nomen est omen) seem to be the most obvious examples, but I think it was smart to keep Kharn out of it too.

Agreed, not all are and that's why I haven't argued for Abaddon and Skarbrand, but the argument: "Kharn is not in a Khorne-flavoured codex because he's a World Eaters legionnaire" doesn't make sense to me.

What's your arguments for Mutilators and Obliterators not being in the codex? I can't come up with a reason for Mutilators... Obliterators are more shooty but Khorne aren't strictly against ranged weapons and as GW has seen it's okay with the background, that Obliterators can have the Mark of Khorne plus they're possessed or another way around are daemons, I just can't see why they're not in...

Chaospling wrote:


What's your arguments for Mutilators and Obliterators not being in the codex? I can't come up with a reason for Mutilators... Obliterators are more shooty but Khorne aren't strictly against ranged weapons and as GW has seen it's okay with the background, that Obliterators can have the Mark of Khorne plus they're possessed or another way around are daemons, I just can't see why they're not in...

Why is there an assumption that X should be in there? If you didn't argue for Abaddon or Skarbrand, you seem to agree that some robotic, thoughtless auto-include of everything "Khorne" isn't the way to go, no?

They put things in there that they saw fit. If they hadn't put Bloodletters in, so what? Where is it written that anything and everything Khorne-related must, must, must, must, must be in this Daemonkin Codex?

Chaospling wrote: Codex: Khorne Daemonkin have Khorne in common and so Obliterators and Mutilators with the Mark of Khorne (like Warp Talons) should be in such a codex like Kharn should be, not because he's a World Eater but because he has the Mark of Khorne... Why do you think he should only be in a legion specific codex and not a god specific or campaign specific codex?

So from your theory everything with the Mark of Khorne should be in this book, does that include Abaddon because his left buttock has the Mark of Khorne?

drbored wrote:

 GiraffeX wrote:

The Chaos Space Marine codex is a generic codex that contains the building blocks to play whatever Chaos faction that you desire, hence why it has the prominent characters from each of the traitor legions.

I laughed really hard when I read this line.

Really hard. Tears were falling down my face for reasons.

Lost all credibility there, bud.

yeah I know tell me about it, if we actually had a good codex to start with it would help matters. I've not played my CSM army since it came out

So its basically a reprint of the Chaos dex without the other cult units.

So they are reprinting the codex 4 times then likely updating the generic one? Seems like its being handled rather sloppily instead of just making a monster Chaos dex that properly represents the legions.

Not 4 times no, there's not going to be a Nurgle Cult or Tzeentch Coven book, this is fundamentally Codex: Buy Our Shiny New Bloodthirster.

Wonderwolf wrote:

Chaospling wrote:


What's your arguments for Mutilators and Obliterators not being in the codex? I can't come up with a reason for Mutilators... Obliterators are more shooty but Khorne aren't strictly against ranged weapons and as GW has seen it's okay with the background, that Obliterators can have the Mark of Khorne plus they're possessed or another way around are daemons, I just can't see why they're not in...

Why is there an assumption that X should be in there? If you didn't argue for Abaddon or Skarbrand, you seem to agree that some robotic, thoughtless auto-include of everything "Khorne" isn't the way to go, no?

They put things in there that they saw fit. If they hadn't put Bloodletters in, so what? Where is it written that anything and everything Khorne-related must, must, must, must, must be in this Daemonkin Codex?

Because that's what I see the units in the codex all have in common. This is not crusade for me - I'm listening to you guys... Don't you see the codex: Khorne Daemonkin as a codex which contain units which somehow are connected to Khorne? I'm just curious as to why leave some units out. I could imagine that Mutilators don't even sell that well (though this don't have to be the case at all of course) but my guess is that GW will not change the base rules and points costs and so these will be too easy to get Blood points for - fine so rule out Obliterators because they don't smell like close combat units but Mutilators are quite over-costed (according to some, not all - I guess) so this would be a way to drive up sales and get us to use them.

Abaddon also have "contact" to the other gods so I can see why he's not in, but I guess I would have thought Skarbrand also would be in it. I don't think I would call it "everything Khorne" as I wouldn't include Abaddon myself but it's close... Everything else in the codex is forced to take the Mark of Khorne... It's based around Khorne...

Wonderwolf wrote:

Chaospling wrote:


What's your arguments for Mutilators and Obliterators not being in the codex? I can't come up with a reason for Mutilators... Obliterators are more shooty but Khorne aren't strictly against ranged weapons and as GW has seen it's okay with the background, that Obliterators can have the Mark of Khorne plus they're possessed or another way around are daemons, I just can't see why they're not in...

Why is there an assumption that X should be in there? If you didn't argue for Abaddon or Skarbrand, you seem to agree that some robotic, thoughtless auto-include of everything "Khorne" isn't the way to go, no?

They put things in there that they saw fit. If they hadn't put Bloodletters in, so what? Where is it written that anything and everything Khorne-related must, must, must, must, must be in this Daemonkin Codex?

Where is it written it shouldn't? Lousy argument is lousy. There is a lot more logic to expecting some key and iconic Khorne units being included in a Khorne focused codex than there is in arguing that they shouldn't be in it cause reasons.

I mean, the fact you seem to be arguing that GW did leave them out because of some far reaching vision, and not because the design studio resembles an ant's nest that's just been introduced to a boiling kettle is already pretty tenuous.

This is just looking like yet another item to toss in the "great idea, but they found a way to feth it up rather than be awesome" pile.

Chaospling wrote:


Because that's what I see the units in the codex all have in common. This is not crusade for me - I'm listening to you guys... Don't you see the codex: Khorne Daemonkin as a codex which contain units which somehow are connected to Khorne? .

No. How about you read the fluff?

These are the Blood God’s faithful: zealots who worship Khorne’s Bloodthirsters as divine beings and who will pay any price to see them and their Daemon legions unleashed upon realspace.

These are "religious" worshipers of Khorne and his Greater Daemons, who wage war with a very explicit goal... to summon Daemons into realspace.

If you're looking for a legion-fit, it definitely has a very strong Word Bearers-vibe there, something like the Sanctified.

But "worshiping" Chaos Gods isn't a World Eater or Angron thing, certainly not a Kharn-thing or an Abaddon thing. Likewise, entering realspace on the bidding of crazed worshipers in religious ecstasy isn't something Karanak would do. Nothing Skarbrand could do, in all likelhood.

I find the choice of which units are included and not included in this Codex to be masterfully done. It certainly shows a far better understanding of the World Eaters' background than that possessed by 99% of all "World Eater-fans" on Dakka, it appears.

Actually since this is a full blown codex it allying with Chaos Daemons or Chaos SPace Marines is also very viable. I will again say this army is viable.

Like again you get the best units - Obliterators :( from each Dex in one ally chart.

1 HQ which can be a Daemon Prince / Chaos Lord / or Herald

1 Troop which can be a cheap 60 point Cultist unit

1 Fast Attack which can be a Heldrake or biker Squad

and then

1 H. Support which can be a Soul Grinder / Mauler fiend , but why is it great? Because previously without ally you couldn't make a list with 2 Mauler Fiends and 2 Soul Grinders and 2 Hel Drakes w/ 2 Biker Squad.

That's pretty great. Again this codex actually buffs CSM because of the options. It's more variety, more troop types, better fast attack. Look at the A+ units that are in this codex, the elite section's the only section that's very light.

Wonderwolf wrote:

I find the choice of which units are included and not included in this Codex to be masterfully done. It certainly shows a far better understanding of the World Eaters' background than that possessed by 99% of all "World Eater-fans" on Dakka, it appears.

Ok dude, now you be trolling, no?

"Masterfully done" would have stretched your already tenuous position to breaking point, but then to wilfully misrepresent everyone else's point of view simultaneously is quite transcendent.

You do seem to have some strong ideas about 40K and GW though, perhaps you should blog about it?

@Wonderwolf: Ah yes the sentence you quoted makes a difference to me - I haven't read it before. A shame you couldn't control your feelings and instead had to use such a tone though; as I said this wasn't a crusade for me, I just wasn't persuaded by the "It's not a World Eater codex"- argument.

Should the quote, in your opinion, also explain why Mutilators and Obliterators aren't included in the codex?

Edit: By the way, I know Skarbrand has been exiled by Khorne but wouldn't he still be in a position in which cultists and the like would worship?

Chaospling wrote:
@Wonderwolf: Ah yes the sentence you quoted makes a difference to me - I haven't read it before. A shame you couldn't control your feelings and instead had to use such a tone though; as I said this wasn't a crusade for me, I just wasn't persuaded by the "It's not a World Eater codex"- argument.

Should the quote, in your opinion, also explain why Mutilators and Obliterators aren't included in the codex?

Probably. I wouldn't have used any "Dark Mechanicum"-type units, personally (outside them being Battle Brother-allies). Admittedly, they did include Maulerfiends, Helldrakes, etc.. by the looks of it. If anything, those may possibly be units included because sales are mightier than the fluff. Ultimately we need to wait and read the Codex, I suppose.