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AdmiralHalsey wrote:
In Dawn of War Soulstorm, flyers were cancer. Not a good source.

I don't disagree

Manchu wrote:It was just an old Lightning:

Spoiler:

Ah. Wasn't aware of that model. I like it.

ERJAK wrote:

I also agree on not having rando-dudes in the SoB codex. Personally I would prefer it be 100% female with 0 ministorum.

There's a practical reason for this: They can't just axe the ministorum, they'll have to go somewhere if they're not in the SoB book. Them going elsewhere would mean either a Ministorum book or an IA book that has some very interesting options available to it that could result in the hodgepodge of stuff (Inq, Ministorum, etc) fleshed out into something really cool.

While I agree about not wanting male crusader models in the book, I wouldn't mind a male Ministorum priest and the Penitent Engine being in there. It fits the background of the army well enough, and would add more variety.

 jake wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:


Have to disagree on that. There is no "solely Sisters of Battle", really, they're the standing army of the Ecclesiarchy - the two are inextricably linked in a way Sisters and the Ordo Hereticus just aren't. Without Sisters, Ecclesiarchy stuff likely doesn't even merit an ally codex, and without Ecclesiarchy stuff Sisters will end up Flanderized like Grey Knights in order to stretch out those last couple of extra units beyond the obvious ones that would be needed for a full Codex.

Putting in two or three Ecclesiarchy units and a couple of characters in a book that will still be like 80% Sisters units, called Codex: Adepta Sororitas, and have a big ol' Battle Sister on the cover would in no way prevent Sisters from being the star of the codex IMO, but it would let GW include certain types of unit without requiring Allies or stretching the SoB concept to breaking point. I mean, it's the same format the original 2nd Ed Sisters codex followed, and nobody will seriously claim they weren't the stars of that show.

They're the standing army of the Ecclesiarchy. Thats the point. The Ministorium is not part of that army. We don't see Imperial Guard armies rolling around with Imperial bureaucrats and accountants, even though they're the standing army of the Imperium.

That comparison isn't equivalent, not even remotely. Frateris, priests, Arcos etc will either be subordinate to whichever Sisters leader is in command, or they will all be subordinate to a high-ranking Priest - I know some folk don't like that reality, but that is the reality. The Sisters are part of the Ministorum, in the same way that the Missionarius Galaxia is part of it, in the same way the priesthood are part of it; they have their own command structure, but it exists within the hierarchy of the church, separating them all out into their own codices is just as bizarre to my mind as the initial Mechanicus release where GW split up their military forces from the priesthood that create and command them, which they have now thankfully fixed.

I agree that you can't claim that Sororitis weren't the stars of their original codex. But what you can claim is that GW did the bare minimum number of Sisters units and sculpts for that codex. Just 4 units and 1 character (all based on the Marine archetypes) and only 2 squads worth of models. Meanwhile they did 3 Ministorium units and two special characters (both of which got models). So Sisters have a long history of having to share their codexes with rando dudes. I guess whether you think thats a good thing or not is a matter of opinion (and if you do, thats fine). Personally, what drew me to the army is cool religious women in power armor. I don't care about the other stuff at all. I do think the Ministorium stuff would be well served by being separated so it can function as allies for other Imperial forces as well. Let it appear in an Agents book alongside Inquisitors and Assassins. Hopefully that way it will get its own attention and models, and then people who really love it will be able to enjoy it and use it as much as they want.

I strongly disagree. They're not "rando dudes", any more than Ogryns are "rando dudes" in an Imperial Guard codex, or Kroot are "rando dudes" in a Tau codex. And other Imperial armies will be able to use Ministorum stuff just as well if it's included in a Sisters codex as if it gets shunted off into "Imperial Agents" or whatever, that's the beauty of the keyword system.

I don't think we have to worry about Sisters not being able to fill a Codex all on their own. Unlike Grey Knights, the Sisters were originally conceived as a full army and not just a one off ally squad. They also have a lot more interesting potential design space since they're not just more hyper special marines competing for ideas with a dozen very similar armies. Right now they have kind of a bare minimum of units, but thats mostly because most of the design effort for Sisters since their original release has gone toward Ministorium and Inquisitor stuff. I have no doubt that, given the chance, GW can come up with a lot of really compelling Sisters units.

Can you suggest what some might be? Because outside of more ornate Celestians and a CC alt-build for Seraphim, I can't think of terribly many that don't completely depart from the established Sisters format. Given the choice between whatever the Sisters equivalent of Centurions or the Chibihawk would end up looking like and some plastic Frateris or Arcos, I'll take the latter every day of the week and twice on Sunday so long as the core Sisters range is well served.

Sisters without Ministorum would just seem weird to me. The Astra Militarum codex has entries for Ministorum priests and Crusaders. It’s hard to argue that they belong there, but they don’t belong in a Sisters army imho.

Even at the time I found it odd that the original SoB codex came with two Priest special characters with models (Redemptor Kyrinov and Uriah Jacobus), but no SoB characters with models.

 EnTyme wrote:

AdmiralHalsey wrote:
In Dawn of War Soulstorm, flyers were cancer. Not a good source.

I don't disagree

Manchu wrote:It was just an old Lightning:

Spoiler:

Ah. Wasn't aware of that model. I like it.

ERJAK wrote:

I also agree on not having rando-dudes in the SoB codex. Personally I would prefer it be 100% female with 0 ministorum.

There's a practical reason for this: They can't just axe the ministorum, they'll have to go somewhere if they're not in the SoB book. Them going elsewhere would mean either a Ministorum book or an IA book that has some very interesting options available to it that could result in the hodgepodge of stuff (Inq, Ministorum, etc) fleshed out into something really cool.

While I agree about not wanting male crusader models in the book, I wouldn't mind a male Ministorum priest and the Penitent Engine being in there. It fits the background of the army well enough, and would add more variety.

Yeah, we get the penitent engine in the divorce thank you very much.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 jake wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

I don't think we have to worry about Sisters not being able to fill a Codex all on their own. Unlike Grey Knights, the Sisters were originally conceived as a full army and not just a one off ally squad. They also have a lot more interesting potential design space since they're not just more hyper special marines competing for ideas with a dozen very similar armies. Right now they have kind of a bare minimum of units, but thats mostly because most of the design effort for Sisters since their original release has gone toward Ministorium and Inquisitor stuff. I have no doubt that, given the chance, GW can come up with a lot of really compelling Sisters units.

Can you suggest what some might be? Because outside of more ornate Celestians and a CC alt-build for Seraphim, I can't think of terribly many that don't completely depart from the established Sisters format. Given the choice between whatever the Sisters equivalent of Centurions or the Chibihawk would end up looking like and some plastic Frateris or Arcos, I'll take the latter every day of the week and twice on Sunday so long as the core Sisters range is well served.

Sisters of Battle don't currently have:

Bikes
Heavy Infantry
Light Vehicles
Heavy Vehicles
Any meaningful options in the elite slot
HQs
Super Heavies
Flyers

And these don't even count all the cool alt-builds you could use with Seraphim, Penitent Engines or Celestians.

Pick one and let your imagination soar!

(Side bar: No frateris militia. There's no possible way they end up not being the superior option to BSS and that would be terrible.)

The Ministorum stuff should be in the SoB codex, that is the most natural place for them, and personally I want a crazy combined crusade force with all sorts of Ecclesiarchy madness. However, there should be enough Sisters options that one can build a solid pure Sisters army if one so desired.

I'd be happier with less Ministorum and more female models. That's my interest in the army and that's my bias, but I do think that if we're talking 'Adepta Sororitas' then 'Ministorum' doesn't really have a place.

I'd rather see all these loose ends, from Sisters of Silence and Inquisitors, to Ministorum Priests and Arco Flagellants, lumped into some Imperial Agents Codex that comes out later, or is just updated in Chapter Approved from the Index (so we can finally get rid of those).

People want Sisters of Battle for the SISTERS OF BATTLE, not for all the odds and ends that got tacked on as remnants from the old Witch Hunters Codex. Battle Sisters, Living Saints, Canonesses, Repentia, Exorcists, Immolators, all of that good stuff.

My fear is that if they add in Ministorum, that there will be abilities that those Ministorum units have that might be key to making the army function. In other words, I'd /have/ to take those other 'extra' models, and my nuns with guns and power armor would look less uniform. :/

drbored wrote:
I'd be happier with less Ministorum and more female models. That's my interest in the army and that's my bias, but I do think that if we're talking 'Adepta Sororitas' then 'Ministorum' doesn't really have a place.

I'd rather see all these loose ends, from Sisters of Silence and Inquisitors, to Ministorum Priests and Arco Flagellants, lumped into some Imperial Agents Codex that comes out later, or is just updated in Chapter Approved from the Index (so we can finally get rid of those).

People want Sisters of Battle for the SISTERS OF BATTLE, not for all the odds and ends that got tacked on as remnants from the old Witch Hunters Codex. Battle Sisters, Living Saints, Canonesses, Repentia, Exorcists, Immolators, all of that good stuff.

My fear is that if they add in Ministorum, that there will be abilities that those Ministorum units have that might be key to making the army function. In other words, I'd /have/ to take those other 'extra' models, and my nuns with guns and power armor would look less uniform. :/

Okay, i've avoided this thread until now, but...

That stuff hasn't been tacked on as part of C:WH, or even any of the later books. It has always been there, as someone noted just a few post back, going back to 2nd edition. 2nd had Priests, Confessors, Frateris, etc. 3rd had Redemptionists, Priests, etc. then C:WH had Inquisition plus Ministorum. Sisters have always had Ministorum in their book. This is nothing new and is unlikely to change.

Ministorum stuff is as part of Sisters of Battle as Auxiliares are part of the Tau Empire.

I can understand the fear of having not enough Sisters of Battle. But I seriously doubt that will happen.

I've always said that if/when that will be the first 40K army I buy 100% of the army on release day.

I look forward to this...my wallet, however, figured it wouldn't actually happen...

 Galas wrote:
Ministorum stuff is as part of Sisters of Battle as Auxiliares are part of the Tau Empire.

I can understand the fear of having not enough Sisters of Battle. But I seriously doubt that will happen.

I'm sure you can see why we're concerned though, considering it literally did happen with the original release and the only time Sisters got a real update.

My hope is that since GW clearly heard us asking for Sisters of Battle, thats what they'll actually give us. But last time it was "They say they want Sisters of Battle, but we think what they really want is Priests, Inquisitors, Sword and Shield bros, dudes with no arms, Stormtroopers and Assassins".

Thats stuffs all cool in its own way, but I don't think it belongs in a Sisters codex. As other people have said, it could shine in an Imperial Agents book where it can have its own attention without taking attention away from Sisters.

I do think some Ministorium stuff has a place in a Sisters army, but I'd like to see it as options to add to Sisters, and not a focus in and of itself. By which I mean, I don't think you should ever be able to build a viable Sisters army where Ssiters are not the main componant. Priests are a good example of what I think works now and has worked in the past. They're unobtrusive and work with Sisters units (or should anyway).I don't particularly think Arco Flagellants and Crusaders have a place in a Sisters force. They're both neat ideas, but they fill roles that Repentia, Celestians or other Sisters units SHOULD be taking.

The one problem I can see with adding the Ministorum to the list would be if GW decides they need to revamp the stuff that is specifically theirs as well as the Sisters - that could delay things further, even if I'd like to see a customizable kit of faithful rabble led by a priest charging ahead as Battle Sisters lay down suppressing fire. I mean, the way the Dark Eldar codex seems to be lined up gives a decent path to pave for it too - give 4-6 Order traits, and 4-6 Ministorum traits and allow the player to either play a pure force or intermix.

I think my biggest wishlist item beyond lots of female heads though would have to be a generic Living Saint kit and a "Build a Saint" rule set.

Honestly i'd ask for and hope for as much stuff as is reasonably possible for GW to produce. Dice and a transfer sheet included. Cause once SoB get this update, don't expect another significant model release for them for another 10-20 years. I'd rather get everything we have now in plastic than get anything new at the cost of current things as well.

I still don't understand why people want MORE books to buy. If it were up to me all marines would be one codex, grey knights and deathwatch would get rolled into inquisition etc...

The indexes were great while they lasted.

Lore wise, the Ministorum are not a bolt on to the Sisters, it’s the other way round. The Adepta Sororitas are a division of the Ministorum.

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
Lore wise, the Ministorum are not a bolt on to the Sisters, it’s the other way round. The Adepta Sororitas are a division of the Ministorum.

But the Ministorium isn't an army. The army is Sisters of Battle. Just like we don't have Codex Imperial Bureaucracy, Codex Craftworld Council of Elders, Codex Gooey Tyranid Hivemind and Codex Tua Politics. 40K is about the armies, not about the organizations behind them.

The Ministoruim should mostly be represented on the table by their actual army, the Adepta Sororitas. At least thats how I feel. If theres going to be a non-Sisters Ministorium presence in the codex/army I think it should be small and unobtrusive.

I know not everyone agrees with that, and thats fine. Thats just how I feel. But I'm guessing we have people wanting three different things in this army:

- All Sisters of Battle with no or very few non-Sisters units/models.

- A mix of Sisters of Battle and Ministorium units/models, where the Ministorium stuff makes up a large part of the army

- A lot of Ministorium units'models, with the ability to make an army thats mostly or all Ministorium.

I don't think theres anything wrong with wanting any of those options, but I do think all three would be best served by separating Ministorium into its own list (that would hopefully see its own model support in the future). That said, I expect that if we're going to see a full codex and more than 2 or 3 kits there will be a fair amount of Ministorium in there. Like it or not, GW has a history of throwing in as many odds and ends priests and whatnot into Sisters as they can manage. It also may be that they see an all female line as too big of a rish (although they did just give AoS a while snake woman army).

I feel like codex: Imperial Bureaucracy would be super OP. Armies would be crushed under 2000 pts of requisition forms and pointless decrees.

 Crazyterran wrote:
I feel like codex: Imperial Bureaucracy would be super OP. Armies would be crushed under 2000 pts of requisition forms and pointless decrees.

After listing those armies they did all the sudden start to sound fun.

 jake wrote:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
Lore wise, the Ministorum are not a bolt on to the Sisters, it’s the other way round. The Adepta Sororitas are a division of the Ministorum.

But the Ministorium isn't an army. The army is Sisters of Battle. Just like we don't have Codex Imperial Bureaucracy, Codex Craftworld Council of Elders, Codex Gooey Tyranid Hivemind and Codex Tua Politics. 40K is about the armies, not about the organizations behind them.

The Ministoruim should mostly be represented on the table by their actual army, the Adepta Sororitas. At least thats how I feel. If theres going to be a non-Sisters Ministorium presence in the codex/army I think it should be small and unobtrusive.

I know not everyone agrees with that, and thats fine. Thats just how I feel. But I'm guessing we have people wanting three different things in this army:

- All Sisters of Battle with no or very few non-Sisters units/models.

- A mix of Sisters of Battle and Ministorium units/models, where the Ministorium stuff makes up a large part of the army

- A lot of Ministorium units'models, with the ability to make an army thats mostly or all Ministorium.

I don't think theres anything wrong with wanting any of those options, but I do think all three would be best served by separating Ministorium into its own list (that would hopefully see its own model support in the future). That said, I expect that if we're going to see a full codex and more than 2 or 3 kits there will be a fair amount of Ministorium in there. Like it or not, GW has a history of throwing in as many odds and ends priests and whatnot into Sisters as they can manage. It also may be that they see an all female line as too big of a rish (although they did just give AoS a while snake woman army).

It's been pointed out to you, repeatedly, that your comparisons are not equivalent. The Imperial Guard and the Adeptus Administratum are two entirely different branches of the Imperium. The Adepta Sororitas are a sub-branch of the Ministorum, the two are not distinct in the background. If a Canoness and a bunch of Sisters roll up to defend a shrine and there are no high ranking priests about, the Sisters will take overall command of the Ministorum's forces there. If there is a high ranking priest there, the priest would have command of everything including the Sisters, because they're all part of the same hierarchy despite the Sisters having a measure of autonomy within it.

And TBH, I've not seen anyone asking for the latter two options, just lots of people who disagree with you that including the Ministorum units that have always been part of Sisters lists in one form or another means they would no longer fit the first definition.

Again, lets look at Tau. The 8th Tau 'dex has five non-Tau units. Now, lets say the new Sisters book had Arcos(new models), Frateris(no models, book tells you to buy Cawdor or mix & match), Penitent Engine(new model), a Thousand Sons-style multipack of Priest characters, and maybe Jacobus(or generic "big hairy preacher") and Kyrinov. Two small infantry kits, one vehicle kit, two clampacks. Six unit entries. So in your eyes, are Tau not the stars of their own show? I mean the five entries thing is actually deceptive, four of those are actual proper units, only one is a character.

Plus if we assume that this is a proper Dark Eldar-style range revamp(which is more likely than them spending a year+ hyping people before dropping a mini-release like GSC or the first round of Skitarii), using up two or three half-size sprues, two clampack sprues, and a set of vehicle sprues isn't going to put a big enough dent in the allocation to prevent us getting all the present Sisters units in plastic probably with a couple of new alt-build units as well.

If you only want to collect Sisters and nothing else, have at it, but that's never been what the army was either in fiction or in rules, and I absolutely hope it isn't where they take the revamp.

I agree with most of that - although the Sisters are there both to police the Church and protect it - they take orders from the Church as long as it does not conflict with the two.

They can execute clergy of pretty much any rank if they feel it is warranted and they can justify it.

Personally I am happy to have elements of the Church proper in the Codex - Priests, Militia, even be happy to have a proper Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor page instead of what we have at the moment.

Then again we do not have the Thralls that many Chapters use as a fighting force - esp on the ships. Hospitilar should also really be an option for Guard.

Although also It will depend if they call it Codex: Adepta Sorortas or Codex: Ministorium.

I am hoping we have something to do with Tech Support for Sisters as that's never been discussed - even if its just in the fluff.

I do agree with others that having only one actual AS character is poor and she is a Saint so a living one would be good.

You know I'm just sharing my opinion, right? Just like everyone else here?

 Yodhrin wrote:


It's been pointed out to you, repeatedly, that your comparisons are not equivalent. The Imperial Guard and the Adeptus Administratum are two entirely different branches of the Imperium. The Adepta Sororitas are a sub-branch of the Ministorum, the two are not distinct in the background. If a Canoness and a bunch of Sisters roll up to defend a shrine and there are no high ranking priests about, the Sisters will take overall command of the Ministorum's forces there. If there is a high ranking priest there, the priest would have command of everything including the Sisters, because they're all part of the same hierarchy despite the Sisters having a measure of autonomy within it.

Apparently you don't think they're equivalent, but I think there are a lot of similarities. While the Sororita are part of the Ministorium, they are a distinct part and fairly separate, with their own purpose and hierarchy. They sometimes mesh, but they don't have to. My point was that the Sororitas are a distinct military organization, much like the Imperial Guard. The other aspects of the Ministorium might sometimes involve themselves with the Sororitas, but aren't part of it. I'd like to see a force that more squarely focuses on the actual Sisters of Battle

 Yodhrin wrote:


And TBH, I've not seen anyone asking for the latter two options, just lots of people who disagree with you that including the Ministorum units that have always been part of Sisters lists in one form or another means they would no longer fit the first definition.

I have seen a fair amount of people talking about the other two options, both in this and other threads here on Dakka since the release news. And there are several people in this thread who have also said they're not really excited about seeing Ministorium units return, or if they do that they'd rather see them return in a minimal way.

 Yodhrin wrote:


If you only want to collect Sisters and nothing else, have at it, but that's never been what the army was either in fiction or in rules, and I absolutely hope it isn't where they take the revamp.

i really do only want to collect Sisters. I think I've made that clear. My posts have been about my hope that this new release veers towards Sisters and away from Ministorium. Its fine that we don't agree and that you want something else. I'm sorry that my wishlisting for something I'm interested in and excited about and been waiting a decade and a half for has you so bent out of shape. How about you just put me on ignore instead of berating me for talking about what I'm hoping from this release?

drbored wrote:
I'd be happier with less Ministorum and more female models. That's my interest in the army and that's my bias, but I do think that if we're talking 'Adepta Sororitas' then 'Ministorum' doesn't really have a place.

I'd rather see all these loose ends, from Sisters of Silence and Inquisitors, to Ministorum Priests and Arco Flagellants, lumped into some Imperial Agents Codex that comes out later, or is just updated in Chapter Approved from the Index (so we can finally get rid of those).

People want Sisters of Battle for the SISTERS OF BATTLE, not for all the odds and ends that got tacked on as remnants from the old Witch Hunters Codex. Battle Sisters, Living Saints, Canonesses, Repentia, Exorcists, Immolators, all of that good stuff.

My fear is that if they add in Ministorum, that there will be abilities that those Ministorum units have that might be key to making the army function. In other words, I'd /have/ to take those other 'extra' models, and my nuns with guns and power armor would look less uniform. :/

What you're afraid of isn't Ecclesiarchy stuff in an Ecclesiarchy army, it's that GW can't write rules to save their lives. Bob or GTFO mentality isn't a fix for that. They are well capable of writing a sucky codex with nothing but Sisters in it.

I'd be happy to see an option for the Priest alongside the sisters. This feels perfectly fitting, and I'm fairly sure the sisters would be fine with, and regularly need, a priest to tend to their needs of faith, just the same as in the IG.
What I'd also like to see is a HQ Option for a Heretitcus Inquisitor, so one has the option to field them as an attached inquisitorial force, or a pure sisters force.
I quite like Penitent Engines, too. Whose to say that's not a Repentia in there?

Otherwise I'd happily pass on everything else. They can all be allied in, if needs be. With an Inquisitor HQ, you could make quite the Inquisition list using Scions + Assassins + Sisters, but you'd have the option to run pure sisters, and the codex wouldn't be over-run by other options creating poor internal balence. Plus the priest doesn't need a new kit, particularly. So just a WH Inquisitor Kit, a Penitent Engine kit, and the essential 2/3 sisters kits.

I'm also on the "PLASTIC CUSTOM SAINT TRAIN." Pls.

The Freataris Militia are supposed to be normal citizens so they will contain women and men, old and young, mutant and genetically pure.

Having said that I do hope that there are enough options for a Sister only army and a 'Sister Iola's Freak Show' style army :-)

 Kroem wrote:
The Freataris Militia are supposed to be normal citizens so they will contain women and men, old and young, mutant and genetically pure.

Having said that I do hope that there are enough options for a Sister only army and a 'Sister Iola's Freak Show' style army :-)

Hahahahahaha. They'll contain mutants HAHAHHAHAHAHA....

Not near an army of sisters, they won't.

AdmiralHalsey wrote:

 Kroem wrote:
The Freataris Militia are supposed to be normal citizens so they will contain women and men, old and young, mutant and genetically pure.

Having said that I do hope that there are enough options for a Sister only army and a 'Sister Iola's Freak Show' style army :-)

Hahahahahaha. They'll contain mutants HAHAHHAHAHAHA....

Not near an army of sisters, they won't.

I'm sure if they have mutated extra strong knees and bent backs for marathon prayer sessions then they will get along just fine

tbh I can see mutants being extra religious to atone for their sinful bodies and wanting to fight for justice in the Emperor's name more than a normie would!

 Kroem wrote:

AdmiralHalsey wrote:

 Kroem wrote:
The Freataris Militia are supposed to be normal citizens so they will contain women and men, old and young, mutant and genetically pure.

Having said that I do hope that there are enough options for a Sister only army and a 'Sister Iola's Freak Show' style army :-)

Hahahahahaha. They'll contain mutants HAHAHHAHAHAHA....

Not near an army of sisters, they won't.

I'm sure if they have mutated extra strong knees and bent backs for marathon prayer sessions then they will get along just fine

tbh I can see mutants being extra religious to atone for their sinful bodies and wanting to fight for justice in the Emperor's name more than a normie would!

I love the idea. The first thing they should to to show how extra pious they are is to set themselves on fire.

 jake wrote:
You know I'm just sharing my opinion, right? Just like everyone else here?

Yes, but when we present our opinions publicly in a forum for discussion people have a tendency to, you know, discuss them.

 Yodhrin wrote:


It's been pointed out to you, repeatedly, that your comparisons are not equivalent. The Imperial Guard and the Adeptus Administratum are two entirely different branches of the Imperium. The Adepta Sororitas are a sub-branch of the Ministorum, the two are not distinct in the background. If a Canoness and a bunch of Sisters roll up to defend a shrine and there are no high ranking priests about, the Sisters will take overall command of the Ministorum's forces there. If there is a high ranking priest there, the priest would have command of everything including the Sisters, because they're all part of the same hierarchy despite the Sisters having a measure of autonomy within it.

Apparently you don't think they're equivalent, but I think there are a lot of similarities. While the Sororita are part of the Ministorium, they are a distinct part and fairly separate, with their own purpose and hierarchy. They sometimes mesh, but they don't have to. My point was that the Sororitas are a distinct military organization, much like the Imperial Guard. The other aspects of the Ministorium might sometimes involve themselves with the Sororitas, but aren't part of it. I'd like to see a force that more squarely focuses on the actual Sisters of Battle

No, I don't think they're not equivalent, they aren't equivalent, nor are they similar. An Administratum bureaucrat does not have the power to take command of a force of Imperial Guard, they are not part of the same command structure as Imperial Guard, nor can the Imperial Guard assume command over them. Sisters are, outside of very specific circumstances, part of and subordinate to the overall church hierarchy in exactly the same way as everyone from a common street preacher all the way up to the top - if a Palatine tells a common preacher and their Frateris rabble to go there and shoot that, they do it, and if a Cardinal tells a Palatine and her Sisters to go there and shoot that, they do it. In matters of war the two are not separable, and even otherwise they're far more closely linked than you're suggesting.

 Yodhrin wrote:


If you only want to collect Sisters and nothing else, have at it, but that's never been what the army was either in fiction or in rules, and I absolutely hope it isn't where they take the revamp.

i really do only want to collect Sisters. I think I've made that clear. My posts have been about my hope that this new release veers towards Sisters and away from Ministorium. Its fine that we don't agree and that you want something else. I'm sorry that my wishlisting for something I'm interested in and excited about and been waiting a decade and a half for has you so bent out of shape. How about you just put me on ignore instead of berating me for talking about what I'm hoping from this release?

You seem to be reading a level of emotion into my posts that simply isn't there, and there's a difference between merely presenting a preference and presenting an argument to support that preference having some merit beyond mere opinion.

I've not seen all the release information, but have they said sisters will get their own codex, or just said that they will release plastic sisters (which could be part of an Imperial Agents codex)?

Super important question here...

I see people typing “Ministorium” and “Ministorum.”

Which is it? I go crazy over important stuff like this.