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(K)nights of the Long Vigil: Deathwatch 9th Edition Discussion and Tactica  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Made in us
Ancient Venerable Dark Angels Dreadnought





Sterling191 wrote:
 bullyboy wrote:

wait, surely it's one CT for the whole army per Battle Round, not pick a different one for each unit. That would be a nightmare to handle since you cannot use the same one twice. It's my understanding that at the beginning of the BR you indicate that you are using say Raven Guard CT, and all units with the eligible keyword get to use that CT that battle round, plus the DW one if you took the WT and are within 6" of warlord.


Re-read the wording, it activates on a per unit basis. Doctrines and similar effects explicitly state they are active for your army, with a knock-on effect stating which affects the subparts have. VotLV explicitly functions in whole for this unit.

There is no stipulation in the VotLV ability that it can only activate once per battle round for your army, and since every unit gains the standalone ability it triggers for each individual unit at the beginning of each battle round.


This is a logistical nightmare since each unit can only use a chapter tactic once in a game (unless using the strat). Not only will you probably need markers for each unit (with the right symbol for each chapter...easy enough), but also keep track of which units have used which tactic already in previous turns so they don't repeat them.

I do wonder if this is the intent but it certainly seems super flexible.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 bullyboy wrote:

This is a logistical nightmare since each unit can only use a chapter tactic once in a game (unless using the strat). Not only will you probably need markers for each unit (with the right symbol for each chapter...easy enough), but also keep track of which units have used which tactic already in previous turns so they don't repeat them.

I do wonder if this is the intent but it certainly seems super flexible.


It absolutely needs an FAQ to clarify intent.

Got another (entirely semi-casual) rep in last night against mixed Slaanesh Demons and Thousand Sons (it was two folks piloting 1000 points apiece but they teamed up on list building). I backlined to range out the TSons and make it harder for the ladies to get the T1 charge off, which was fortunate as I lost first turn. The ladies came out to play, but couldn't quite get across no man's land. The first turn psychic wave bounced off the BT 5+++, and he failed the 11 and 12 inch charges. Couple of terminator missiles largely plinked off shields and the Aegis. I misplayed the Extremis strat on a long shot to try and whittle down a Scarab team. It did not go well.

Turn 1 counterpunch was brutal. Two smaller blobs of daemonettes, all but one of his Fiends and his Keeper went down in shooting, and a Blackshield flattened the Epitome.

Turn 2 the dusty bois came out to play, and I dropped the Proteus team they were poised to overrun into Iron Hands for the FnP (I was trying not to min-max the list so no Apoth or Librarian for shrugs). Terminator Sorcerer yoinked their invuln, but between sheer wound count and the joys of massed 2+ armor saves I only lost a few Vets from the team in both shooting and fighting. Importantly the 30-lady blob failed its charge out of reserves, which pretty much won me the game.

Counterpunch was just as brutal Turn 2. Beacon brought my Indomitor squad to the thick of things, and it just liquified the 30-gal blob and a 5-man Scarab squad. The Spectrus team that had halved the Keeper swung around and popped a Sorcerer and an Infernal Master (WLT to make the squad untargetable is just ace by the way), and from there it was cleanup.

Takeaways:

BT shrugs pretty much won me the game. Having not only an ace to make the countercharge reliable, but also the psychic defense (I took no Libbys or Inquisitors) payed huge dividends. Likewise IF as a force multiplier for SIA is hellaciously potent when you throw enough dice on the table, and can rack up the damage very quickly even against multiwound models (I had a 5-man Stalker Boltgun team nearly delete a Scarab team in a single volley. AP3 D3 is no joke).

Having nearly on-demand offensive and defensive tools is a huge asset. It's tricksy to use for sure, but if you do it right it'll swing an entire match.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




What are people's thoughts on a Proteus brick with 3x Cyclone Missile Termies and 4x normal missile launchers? It melee's and shoots equally well, and is Str 8 to go into Orks. Would the Cyclones by themselves be enough?

Librarian can throw the Mantle of Shadow on it to keep it from being sniped, and it would benefit nicely from the Chaplain's +1 to hit and +1 wound/closest.

Mine is 417 points with the Aquila upgrade, vanguard vet for fallback-shoot, and a Thunderhammer/Stormshield termie to soak damage. Is this too many points?
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





xerxeskingofking wrote:
So, I've bit the bullet and got my 1st deathwatch models, specifically a watch master and some heavy intercessors. Which armament option do you guys think is best for them? I plan to leave the on the rear objective, and I'm torn between the extra damage and AP on the executor types, the higher shots one the hellstorm, and the mix of the standard heavy rifles.


My primary opponents will be wolves, grey knights and necrons, If that matters.


Hellstorm for normal and Executor for Heavy. Cutely we can mix and match where the normal unit has to stick to one type.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/27 16:33:40


 
   
Made in gb
Bounding Assault Marine




UK

Sterling191 wrote:
(WLT to make the squad untargetable is just ace by the way).

Does honoured veteran of the watch give any guidance on whether the sergeant or the unit is considered the warlord for the purposes of the trait? I thought it was just the sergeant so stealth adept wouldnt kick in until the rest of the kill team is dead (as you shoot the unit not the warlord, similar to how iron resolve surely doesnt give +1 wound and a shrug to each team member).

Also, with VotLV, I read it as working both ways - i.e. it is applied at unit level, but you cannot select a CT more than once (so can only blood angel 1 unit, army wide, cannot do so again for remainder of game). Probably in need of a few FAQs I guess.

Finally, does anyone have an opinion on what is best for the auto wound strat - quantity of shots or high ap+damage? Indomitor team with max bolt storm aggressors and imperial fists is putting forward a strong case for quantity over quality but theres probably a weird blend of mid strength-high damage weaponry that would benefit more.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Insularum wrote:

Does honoured veteran of the watch give any guidance on whether the sergeant or the unit is considered the warlord for the purposes of the trait? I thought it was just the sergeant so stealth adept wouldnt kick in until the rest of the kill team is dead (as you shoot the unit not the warlord, similar to how iron resolve surely doesnt give +1 wound and a shrug to each team member).


It 100% needs an FAQ, but my understanding of the order of operations in the shooting phase is that you select a *unit* to target, not a model, which would include the Sergeant and therefore activate the trait.

 Insularum wrote:

Also, with VotLV, I read it as working both ways - i.e. it is applied at unit level, but you cannot select a CT more than once (so can only blood angel 1 unit, army wide, cannot do so again for remainder of game). Probably in need of a few FAQs I guess.


This is an entirely plausible interpretation of the wording, and I completely agree that it critically needs an FAQ to clarify.

 Insularum wrote:

Finally, does anyone have an opinion on what is best for the auto wound strat - quantity of shots or high ap+damage? Indomitor team with max bolt storm aggressors and imperial fists is putting forward a strong case for quantity over quality but theres probably a weird blend of mid strength-high damage weaponry that would benefit more.


They both have merits, and one of the big struggles right now is saving the CP to drop it in sequential turns.
   
Made in au
Ork-Hunting Inquisitorial Xenokiller




bmsattler wrote:
What are people's thoughts on a Proteus brick with 3x Cyclone Missile Termies and 4x normal missile launchers? It melee's and shoots equally well, and is Str 8 to go into Orks. Would the Cyclones by themselves be enough?

Librarian can throw the Mantle of Shadow on it to keep it from being sniped, and it would benefit nicely from the Chaplain's +1 to hit and +1 wound/closest.

Mine is 417 points with the Aquila upgrade, vanguard vet for fallback-shoot, and a Thunderhammer/Stormshield termie to soak damage. Is this too many points?


I'm trialling something similar, but went for more diverse/survive/mid options. I have made a DW battalion normal and a Patrol of 'Strike force' to test some of them (no way keeping track of all that in a full 'Strike force' etc... and I think can take a detachment of 'Strike force' and a Detachment of normal DW):

For my army this squad teleports in with captain support (re-roll 1's) or it has the option to combat squad with vets in one squad (deploy normally) and Vanguard/termies in the other (so they can tele for free if want/need).

(420) Strike Force Aquila Proteus Kill Team, 10 men: --Teleportarium Stratagem--
• Aquila Specialism
• Watch Sergeant: DW Combi-plasma, Power fist, Combat shield, Frag & Krak grenades
• 4x Veterans: 4x DW Combi-plasmas, 4x Storm shields, Frag & Krak grenades
• 2x Vanguard Vets: 2x Plasma pistols, 2x Storm shields, 2x Jump packs, Frag & Krak grenades
• 3x Deathwatch Terminators: 3x Storm bolters, 3x Cyclone missile launchers, 3x Power swords

Mainly trailing the auto wound stratagem for a mega punch when come down (can only use it once so). With the rest of my army the combo is ok (so long as can run a norm DW battalion and a 'Strike force' patrol?). But is super expensive and depends on if can deep strike at a good position, because of enemy screen out etc (that's why gave them the option of combat squad etc so have options after see enemy, if decide not to use strat, can combat squad and focus on other rules etc). I also have a jump Chap for +1 to hit if decide can commit so much to deep strike...

I think such an expensive squad has to be able to do multiple roles and not sit in the back, is why chose weapon options and why mainly went for the deep strike over sit back and shoot. Has the option, if no full squad deep strike, to go for combat squad and gives even more options (still expensive but options are good. How many times can I say options in a paragraph...lol).

Anyway from what I found (for this build and my complete army I am trialling atm) I think works ok and is a fun change. Competitive... to many eggs one basket, maybe.

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2021/10/29 11:52:58


14k Generic Space Marine Chapters
20k Deathwatch
10k Sisters of Battle
3k Inquisition
4k Grey Knights
5k Imperial Guard
4k Harlequins
4k Tau



 
   
Made in au
Ork-Hunting Inquisitorial Xenokiller




xerxeskingofking wrote:
So, I've bit the bullet and got my 1st deathwatch models, specifically a watch master and some heavy intercessors. Which armament option do you guys think is best for them? I plan to leave the on the rear objective, and I'm torn between the extra damage and AP on the executor types, the higher shots one the hellstorm, and the mix of the standard heavy rifles.


My primary opponents will be wolves, grey knights and necrons, If that matters.


I think Heavy intercessors are pretty trash tbh, the only reason to take them is if want to combat squad eradicators/inceptors to make Obsec.
That being said, I have some of mine done up with Executor bolt rifles (I think the extra ap and damage are worth it and if combat squad say with eradicators (and mix them) they have a chance to do some damage if fire entire unit at one squad/vehicle and are there just to take hits, even if heavy. Moreover, if combat squad totally separate (like all Heavy Intercessors and all Inceptors etc), the HI Executors can sit back and do something from range if need, while say the Inceptors are free to do what you want them to do with Obsec).

For Wolves and Grey knights and if sitting back on objects than the Executors will defiantly be better (at least have the range and each hit has more of a chance to kill most times).
This also gives you a better option I think if expand into other units (like eradicators or inceptors). I would not do multiple different weapon options atm, even though DW have the option (cause makes it so long when dice roll and you are still testing).

Suggestions for other backfield units:

For back field objectives (if just holding or ROD etc) servitors are a good choice. If want a unit to hold and can take some hits (pop off a few shots etc) that are primaris, I have found this squad ok if want to hold 2 back quarters/objectives:

(255/18) Spectrus Kill Team (A), 10 men: ---Combat Squad---
• ---A1---
• Infiltrator Sergeant: Marksman bolt carbine, Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades
• 2x Infiltrators: 2x Marksman bolt carbines, 2x Bolt pistols, Frag & Krak grenades
• 2x Eliminator: 2x Bolt sniper rifles, 2x Bolt pistols, 2x Camo cloaks, Frag & Krak grenades
• ---A2---
• Infiltrator: Marksman bolt carbine, Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades
• Infiltrator: Marksman bolt carbine, Bolt pistol, Helix gauntlet, Frag & Krak grenades
• 3x Eliminators: 3x Bolt sniper rifles, 3x Bolt pistols, 3x Camo cloaks, Frag & Krak grenades

Each unit can screen out deep strikers to 12", if is in cover or can chain back to cover with the Eliminators is a 1+ save and in one squad can ignore first failed armour save per turn.

I'm not a huge fan of primaris for DW. Most that primaris can do Vets or mixed Proteus kill teams can do similar or better and be more survivable for similar points.

This message was edited 10 times. Last update was at 2021/10/31 03:10:55


14k Generic Space Marine Chapters
20k Deathwatch
10k Sisters of Battle
3k Inquisition
4k Grey Knights
5k Imperial Guard
4k Harlequins
4k Tau



 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Spectrus teams are one of our best toolbox units, especially with the current cost of Eliminators. They'll die horribly 95% of the time, but with smart composition, deployment and play depending on your opponent they can, and will, win you games.

   
 
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