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I've got a small 700pt battle coming up against Eldar this weekend. It'll actually be my first 40k game, and first game after being out of wargaming for many years. Based on the models I have, I don't have many choices so I will present two variations and hopefully get some c & c. To get to the point value that we've agreed on, I've had to take some pretty juicy upgrades, but I'm also trying to avoid being to cheesy. I'm unsure quite what he's got, and I only have a basic idea of what to expect from Eldar so any advice on that would also be appreciated. Here goes:


List 1: 705pts

RP (Runic Armor, Wolftooth Necklace, CotS, LL and JotWW [though these won't be used and don't cost anything anyways])

10 x Blood Claws (MotW, PF, MG)

10x GH (MotW, Wolf Standard, MG x 2, PF)

Razorback (Las/Plas, Extra Armor) This will provide cover and fire support for BC's.

Land Speeder Typhoon

-------------------------------------------

List 2: 700pts

RP (Runic Armor, Wolftooth Necklace, CotS, PP)

10 x Blood Claws (MotW, PF, MG)

10x GH (MotW, Wolf Standard, MG x 2, PF)

Razorback (Las/Plas, Extra Armor) This will provide cover and fire support for BC's.

Land Speeder (MM, HF) This would Deep Strike to pop his armor.


So, subtle differences, but I think they'd play a bit differently. Any help is appreciated.

The Wolf Tooth Necklace is a worthless piece of wargear. Is there any way you could spend that 10 points somewhere else?

Otherwise, I think the list is fine for your limited models.

List :
RP [LL/JotWW or Divination] {with long fangs}

10x GH (PG x 2)

10x GH (PG x 2)

10x GH (PG x 2)

5x Long Fangs (4 missle)

695 points.

I won like 4/5 games with this list.

@Grug:
I certainly can't think of anything else to spend the points on instead of the necklace. Do either of the two lists seem more effective?

@Commisar:
Thanks for that. I'll keep that in mind once I have the models for it. I'm sure I'll do other small battles in the future as I learn and my opponent recruits more guys! I like the RP w/ Divination + LF combo, but not sure how useful Divination is vs Eldar.

My suggestion would be.

Rp 170
tda
lvl2 div

Ghp 155
2 melta

ghp 155
2 melta

speeder 70
mm hf

6 lfp 140
5 ml

690

The razorback seems out of place and can be an easy first blood.

The rp with lvl 2 and 5 ml can make a mess of most units. With some luck you get ignore cover and reroll to hit and you are set. Plus those could be 5 small blasts so much fire power.

Don't take Blood Claws, they're only good if there's a full unit in a LRC with a special character. Always, always, always take Grey Hunters.

 Badger_Bhoy wrote:
@Grug:
I certainly can't think of anything else to spend the points on instead of the necklace. Do either of the two lists seem more effective?

@Commisar:
Thanks for that. I'll keep that in mind once I have the models for it. I'm sure I'll do other small battles in the future as I learn and my opponent recruits more guys! I like the RP w/ Divination + LF combo, but not sure how useful Divination is vs Eldar.

The only difference I see is in the land speeder's load out, so which list is most effective is going to depend almost entirely on who your opponent is. If they have an AV 14 vehicle AND you get to shoot it with the multi-melta before your land speeder dies AND you score an "Explodes" result, then the second list is better. Otherwise, it's pretty much the same.

Thanks for all the advice. Unfortunately I don't have any flexibility with the units (other than the Razorback becoming a Rhino as it's magnetized), as they're all I've got for now!

I figured with the Razorback, it could as said, provide cover fire, and possibly draw fire long enough to help the infantry get into combat, especially with the Land Speeder. If I had anything to make up the point deficit like a Lone Wolf, I wonder if a regular old Rhino would work better for getting the BC's into the thick.

@Grug: Thanks. That's a lot of 'if's' . I figure the lascannon on my RB could help pick up the slack but I'll go with you're advice.

IMHO drop the blood claws for G.H's, drop the necklaces on the R.Ps, drop the E.A on the R.B's, upgrade the speeder

and remember cheese is your friend, you can take it

by for example M.O.T.W the G.Hs, just a thought.

although i would take GrugKnuckle's advice before i took mine.

Hmm...I could write the list up as two units of GH. The BC's aren't fully painted yet, this is a very casual game. I simply have them because they'll eventually be Sky Claws in my full list.

Editing my second list to replace the BC with GH, and remove the necklace from the RP would put me at 700 even. Granted, I can see the Wolftooth Necklace isn't the biggest boon, but is it really worthless? I see it on a lot of lists, but maybe it's out of habit? A little extra CC insurance for a RP can't be bad I wouldn't think.

No on the blood claws! Grey Hunters cost the same but provide so much more!

Well, you are going against eldar, meaning that psychic powers are probably useless(I always take a farseer+runes of warding in a game over 500 points) and anything in CC will still beat your CC capability.

However, a rune priest offers psychic defense to the buffs eldar so critically rely upon. If there is no seer, then cast LL to your hearts content. JOTWW is a bit underwhelming, as you are talking about I4 and I5 models, so not going to do a whole lot. However, eldar are mostly T3 with mediocore armor, so murderous hurricane is a good pick.Terminator armor is better than runic, as you will rarely sweep eldar in combat and they don't have any good psychic powers that cause wounds.

Your rune priest also brings the chooser. If your opponent brings rangers/pathfinders, chooser can ruin his day. Denying the best spot for these elf snipers makes them easy picking. Rangers live and die by their placement, keeping them out of range or out of cover can win you a smaller game(rangers recently won me a 750 vs crons due to good infiltrate position)

Both claws and Hunters can handle eldar in assault unless you suck at passing saves or are doomed. They will go first, but at S3 with 3+ armor you shrug off wounds. Eldar saves are not great, and T3 so fists are overkill. A quicker power weapon may serve you better than a fist(unless you need tank/wraithlord busting)

The lasplas back is not super effective against eldar short of wraithlords, wraithguard and the avatar. Not a bad build, but not great. An assault cannon is the best all round weapon against eldar, but the close range leaves you vulnerable, so lasplas is fine enough unless you want to keep it cheap with bolters. Extra armor is worthless, as stunned rarely happens anymore with the new hull point system.

As for your land speeder choice, both are effective. Eldar armor hates getting shot in the rear, so the MM/HF speeder is nice here. This can also counter T3 troops in cover(expect to see these). At the same time, eldar spam S6 like it is going out of style and this will trash your speeders quick. That said, the S6 spam is limited to 3', so the typhoon can stay out of range. Both frag and krak blasts are good against eldar depending on what you are shooting, while keeping you safe(Only eldar 4' weapon to worry about is the Eldar missile launcher, so just silence these ASAP...fire prisms and night spinners can both shoot 4' or further so shoot em if you see em, but I doubt you will). The typhoon is probably a safer way to go, as closing with the MM/HF speeder is suicide unless you manage to pop a tank(if your opponent even fields one)

Thank you for all that awesome advice Dr. Serling. Feel free to add to it if you can!

I'm not sure what he's got exactly. I DO know he's got the Battleforce, so I find it very unlikely that he won't have mechanized support hence all the MG, and the Las/Plas. He's also been bragging about some good Ebay deals so who knows what he's got in store for me!

I did obtain a copy of the Eldar codex, I may have to look at it and see if I can glean anything from it in the time before the match.

I'm not sure what his HQ may be, but I assume I'll see a Farseer. Either I misunderstood part of your post, or I was mislead in regard to my general idea of Eldar. I was under the impression that SW had the advantage in CC, but the Eldar would shoot them to bits if given a chance.

So, taking your advice into account, here is my modified list:

RP (Terminator armor, CotS, Combi-Flamer, LL, MH)

10 x GH (MotW, MG x2, Wolf Standard, PF)

10 x GH (MotW, MG x2, Wolf Standard, Power Sword)

Razorback Las/Plas

Land Speeder Typhoon

All this has me right at 700.

 Badger_Bhoy wrote:


So, taking your advice into account, here is my modified list:

RP (Terminator armor, CotS, Combi-Flamer, LL, MH)

10 x GH (MotW, MG x2, Wolf Standard, PF)

10 x GH (MotW, MG x2, Wolf Standard, Power Sword)

Razorback Las/Plas

Land Speeder Typhoon

All this has me right at 700.

this is a fantastic 700 pt list to use against Eldar, but remember that in C.C you will be better but he will go 1st on his Farseer, so try to avoid being challenged in C.C if your R.P has 1 wound, and here's a tip, cover is your best friend against Eldar.

Thanks, and noted. This will be my main opponent (other likely armies being Tau and IG) so for my full list, I've designed it to be fast and super assaulty. Trying to get to into CC as quickly as I can.

Use the blood claws models and grey hunters. Plus, I dont have codex here at work but if I'm not mistaken BC arent authorized MotW. I would have 2 GH squads, at least one with plasma gun and other can have melta since you have sparce heavy support.

You're correct that MotW isn't available to BC, t hat was a mistake. However in my edited list three posts above yours, I'm playing them as GH.

The issue I would have with a PG, is though it has twice the range as a second MG, it would disallow a charge. I could stop using it once I was closing in I suppose. Anyone else have an opinion? Is it really necessary to have four MG between the two GH units?

 Badger_Bhoy wrote:
You're correct that MotW isn't available to BC, t hat was a mistake. However in my edited list three posts above yours, I'm playing them as GH.

The issue I would have with a PG, is though it has twice the range as a second MG, it would disallow a charge. I could stop using it once I was closing in I suppose. Anyone else have an opinion? Is it really necessary to have four MG between the two GH units?

Here's a fantastic tactic that works better with grey hunters than it does with blood claws and makes the issue you have plasmaguns moot. Instead of charging the enemy with your grey hunters, force the opponent to charge you! If you make your leadership roll, you'll still get your extra attack AND (bonus!) you'll get to rapid fire with your plasmaguns first! If you're a blood claw though, you don't have bolters (only bolt pistols!) so you will rapid fire with half as many bolt rounds AND you'll only get 1 extra attack instead of 2. So...

Charge with blood claws but with Grey Hunters let him charge you!

Alright, you sold me. I'll give one of the GH units a plasmagun and give it a go!