Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey,

I've been painting models for years and decided to start playing 40k with a few noob friends (me included!)

Just wanted your opinions on this CSM 500 point starter army list. It is the first I have ever put together so go easy on me as I'm still learning!

I will be using this army against a friend who is playing his necrons (battle force) for the first time at the weekend too.

Lord
MoK
Sigil of Corruption

10 Cultists
1 Flamer

5 CSM with 1 Plasma Gun
Rhino

5 Khorne Berzerkers + 3 Chain Axe
Rhino

1 Obliterator

499 points

My idea was to race the rhinos in with the two squads and lord getting into the thick of it as quick as possible.
Using the cultists as a distraction foot slogging and trying to tie up some units while my berzerkers and csm dispose of others.
Obliterator is for any heavy fire power and back up required.

This maybe outrageously daft and incorrect but hey I have to start somewhere.

I will be growing this force to 1000+ so any tips for moving forward please let me know you thoughts

Thanks in advance

I used to use a list similar to this when I first started playing. This list tends to work against inexperienced players until they figure out how to blow up rhinos.

I would consider having a backup plan in case if your opponents destroy one or both of your rhinos. Maybe give the chaos lord either terminator armor or a jump pack and attach them to raptors, warp talons, or terminators instead of using obliterators. This gives you better chances on getting something in your enemies faces if they want to hide back field

Cheers solex.

So it seems you would say this is a good place to start which is great thanks for the input.

True about the rhinos I had not considered the possibilities of them getting caught short. If this does happen with the army listed above what would be the best way of moving forward from there in the game? Just foot slogging what's left after the rhino goes down I assume?

The other models I have are:

2 Daemon Princes
2 Lords (Kranon)
Typhus
Abbaddon

10 Chosen
2 Hellbrutes
10 csm
2 old havocs heavy bolter and missile launcher
10 plague marines
12 zerkers
40 cultists
4 Obliterators
Mauler/Forgefiend conversion

Predator Tank
Rhino Tank x2

Let me know of you think anything I have there would be better used in place of what I have listed originally.

Thanks again.

with the list you have It depends on how far away your rhinos are before your berzerkers start yelling "we need a new driver, this one is dead!" It is entirely possible that you can get close enough to open fire with your regular chaos marines before the rhinos give up and die. worst case scenario I would run the cultists in front of your more important units as a meat shield buying you time as you advance in range, very few races have a hugely significant range advantage on chaos marines such as tau.

As for what other units you should add, I would play a few games and take notice on what attributes would have been helpful during play and keep them in mind for when you are adjusting your list. what units you should use depends a lot on how you play, Chaos is a very versatile army that gives you many more options than some of the other races.

Brilliant solex really helpful thanks just the kind of advice I was looking for.

I will run the cultists as a meat shield to attempt to get my rhinos and units in close - nice tactic.

I have read that melee and short range fire with cover from big guns is the best way forward tactically so I think I will run with that initially when making the army larger.

You say chaos are versatile but what is generally there main strength? as I will obviously need to attempt to play to that strength.

Cheers

if you havent painted the chosen, i would turn them into sargents, i havent had good luck running them there just so expensive,(i assume you got two DV box's and as there modled is not cost effective) the hell brutes are always goot stuff, i would reccommend that you try a game or two running normale CSM they really will impress you with there versitily(dont use them like zerkers or plague's thou or you will be dissapointed) sense you have typhus you should try zombies, there great fun. i reccomend getting some regular guys and making some havocks(ebay for parts of convert ur own) i would reccommend trying a game or two where ur fiend counts as a helldrake, there the best but expseive so yah( i use a fantasy dragon as a sub). as soon as you leave the 500pt range i reccommend you never use cultist in #'s less then 20, they die too fast and dont do enough, if ur foot slogging or defending an objective or road blocking havocks there awsome they can die in like 2 rds but thats alot of time to be held, even better when there zombies and/or have a fearless charter with them, there good meat sheilds.
preds are a good choice too there cheap and effective but IMO you cant beat havocks with auto cannons and oblits for most list. thoue mech lists beinift from them well.

bikes, raptors, beast(as charter guards), and even termies are good places to play next. as with any new unit i reccomen you do a few "count as" before you invest in them. hope you enjoy it and find you way

This probably isn't helpful but their main strength I would say IS their versatility, I would say what units you should use depends on how you play and what you are playing against. If you are fighting anyone with power armor use thousand sons it is absolutely hilarious to watch your opponents face as their precious marines don't get any saves. If you are fighting a army with lots of heavy options like tanks and terminators I would make sure to have as many melta-guns, plasma guns, and lascannons as you can get, pleague marines help too. if you are fighting tiny peoples like cultists, tau, or guardsmen, if you can get berzerkers in range they just chew them up. I tend to focus on main troop options then use fast attack, elite, and heavy support slots to make up for any weaknesses you might have


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I agree with slip about the chosen, mine always die and rarely kill their points. all sound advice from him, the only thing I disagree on is pred-tank I like them better than havoks but that is just me. they are harder to wound and can be better for the points since even if you move you can at least fire one lascannon at full ballistic skill.

This is an example about how play style is sometimes most important

Cheers! loads for me to take on board there and try out.

I have to admit the zombie hoards sound fun but I need to learn how to play em effective first.

Ill try some proxy units and see how they turn out but as im originally a painter the hell drake will be my next purchase just for its presence so its nice to know I can use it effectively in games too. Bike lord conversion and bike unit and forgeworld nurgle termies after I find some cash!

Is there any best way for chosen to be played as all I read is they they're crap. Surely there must be something they are good at? If not they will be converted to plagues/csm.

Solex that info is exactly the kind of stuff I'm looking for really helpful. Ill make sure I don't over look the the csm as they sound useful and I will definitely read up more on thousand sons as no saves sounds evil

Any offers on how to beat the necrons resurrection (not sure on the name) that sounds a daunting and my friend keeps talking about it! Any tips on how to keep them down?!

Thanks again peoples

A squad of five is going to get cut down very fast if their rhino does gets destroyed and it is two small to really do much.
i think a squad of bare bones plague marines is only a bit more, and you will have a lot more staying power

Ill have a look at the points and see if I can beef up either of the smaller squads. Maybe take a few more in each squad and lose the cultists?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
My friend has been suggesting this line up for his necrons -

9 warriors with ghost ark,
5 immortals,
overlord with command barge
3 lots of scarabs.

Any tactic tips?

if you looking just for necron advice, i suggest you stay away from mech(i lost 3 dreads in one turn...i was trying them out and i thought my freind would bring GK's i was wrong:( )
theres not a whole lot to be done about that ressurection things but really its not as bad as it sounds they mostly fall down like any thing ealse.

necrons come in a few varitys but most fall into one of these
wraithwing, flying circues, or scarab farm
each has its ups and downs all 3 are annoying
that being said ur gonna have to figure out what kinda player ur frind is to find the best ansers to him. if he is learning like you are i sugggest you make balanced AAC (agenst all comers) list insted of looking for a magic tool to beat that army.
plauge marines are super reliable and can take dual spec weapons in 5 mans, noise marines are pricey but they ignor cover and are the only thing i can think of that might out fire power necrons at 24", Zerkers are good meat grinders and will eat most none wraith/none scarab farm/none spyder units in the necron army, and t-suns will deny saves (ap 3 boltguns and rentless via slow and purposful) but they will get shot down as fast as regular marines so becarfull there pricy Tzeech pyshic powers are soso or bad.

hope this helps

Slip great help again that advice is much appreciated ill take it on board! Thanks.

Noise marines sound awesome to me it's haut fitting them in lol
500 point just isn't enough.

My friend is also talking about Mindshackling my Chaos Lord can any one shed any light on what this is and how to deal with it please? Ill get googling it and see what I can find also.

Thanks all for your input its great and valuable to me as a beginner!

Just finishing painting my second obliterator now! Yay!

Mindshack scarabs are the absolute wrost part of the necron cheese IMO
you take a leadership test on 3d6 if you fail you attack your self
IIRC if theres a brawl and theres more then one model its random who it works on, but in a challange it works on the challger a problem as Choas we love a good challange.
hey while we are on that topic sense i dont have my BRB on me could you use the reroll a d6 for each 5 models you have arouns a challange to re-roll one of thouse if so that would be epic but i dought it

yah mindshackle is probmatic if you fail ur leadership IIRC its also kinda expensive so if it misfires its alot of wasted points in such a small game.
my advice is simple, you know he has the scarabs you know that he is gonna wanna use it on ur biggest baddest thing,
so use the pattented "circle jerk" lol let me explain
if he wants to use it on CSM Lord A then he will exort alot of effort to get him in B2B with CSM Lord A, if you keep ur lord running away and slightly outta his rang the rest of ur army can cut that silly metal man down, circle him if you will.
one of two things should happen.
1 he chases ur lord with just his lord useing the rest of his army to fill there normal roles on the battle feild in witch case easy kill on the lord he has no back up shoot him to sh*t
2 he will revamp his entire army to try to protect that lord to get him into combat if ur real lucky he will get mad and blood lusty about it and the result will be alot of Necrons trying to do CC and thats a win for Chaos, if he has alot of forces chasing ur Lord there not doing what they do best and are rip for counter CC from other squads with less dangrious CC weapons for the MSS and squads with good CC weapons for all the poeple trying to protect the MSS
3 well there is the chance that he will use the lord as a leader and not do eaither of these things perhaps not even getting that lord into CC, but this is still a win for you cause now he payed alot of points(in a 500pt game) for a power he dident use at all.

moral of the storie
Chaos! for the win

I was tempted to run the csm and zerkers in a rhino each with lord accompanying zerkers. But now I want to bait the Lord with
MSS into the open for punishment after reading your post

Based on what you have said there I wondered if it would be better to only take one rhino of zerkers and leave the csm footsloggin behind and leaving the Lord hanging back behind them rather than riding him in a rhino into cc.

That way I can have my obliterator lascannon and csm plasma take down the command barge hq with mindshackle while i keep my lord tucked in behind the csm? With zerkers in rhino aiming for CC on his immortals/warriors.

Sound feasible? Or should I still go two rhinos and full all out assault but just keeping the Lord safe and kiting the barge?

Cheers for the info again its great as being a beginner to have this kind of info. Especially as I don't want to start on a loss!

Cheers

the best part of a zealuos Necron player is letting him think you have underestamated him, if you keep ur lord back and away from combate ur cheating urself i dont persoanlly see a rhino lasting long agesnt thouse robot skellies but it will get a turn or two if ur lucky, so that being said dont change you list too much take to the two rhinos just remmber the lord needs to fight the squad without the lord first, also he'res a fun trick.
challange him with the sargent of ur squad it will let ur lord deal damage to his squad(or charoit) and keep him from being a victem
IIRC chariot Charters cant deny a challage yes? or do they cound at Mech at that point.... brain fart. look into how fast and what the CC rules are for the CCB.
regular necrons are no match for a CSM lord with even a little gear.
you do not want the CCB to charge ur main unit you need to charge it or at least get it to charge a unit that can be lost.
if youre gonna be playing this guy for a while go troll the necron information pages here and ealse where sometimes the best tatics come from revers engineering you're enemy advantages
also i forgot the changed MSS in the last faq(or one of the faq's) its now like d3 attacks agenst urself

Nice one ill look into the necron post see if I can undo him by learning a few of his tactics!

Right here goes the final list.

Lord with MoK and Sigil of Corruption for an extra attack and an invulnerable save of 4+

10 cultist with flamer to intercept fast attack scarabs or to slow the command barge. Taking his attention away from the rest my force.

5 zerkers with 3 chain axes and rhino bombing forward to necron back line for CC against immortals and warriors.

5 csm with plasma gun and rhino with lord to get close to command barge with champion challenging necron Lord with MSS when in cc range.

Obliterator backing up the csm unit with lascannon fire.

Only concerns are his fast attack scarabs tearing my rhinos a new one I'd be a bit stumped. As my csm will fall short of getting to the command barge.

Maybe I'm worry for nothing as its my first battle but I want to rack up my first win for the forces of chaos with the Legion of Doom! If you can call 500 point a legion lol

Cheers

Why dont you just field typhus, 2 groups of 20 cultist MoN, divide 10 plague marines, bolster with chosen as champ, 2 special weapons csm, and for the CSM use a chosen as champ and pic either Heavy bolter or missile launcher. At 1000+pts games.

Typhus

20 cultist, MoN (tarpits, move forward to contest obj and buble wrap rhino to give it cover save)
20 cultist, MoN
7 plague marine, 2 special, champ, melta bomb, rhino
7 plague marine, 2 special guns, cham melta bomb, rhino
10 CSM, special gun, heavy bolter, champ melta bomb, MoN (objective sitters)

2 oblits, MoN (DS with typhus)
2 oblits, MoN, (gun line with CSM)

Reread ur posts fighting crons. The list I suggested maybe a great all comers list after 1000 pts.

I like the sounds of that but sounds like more than 500 pts that im starting with for my first battle at the weekend but definitely like typhus and the concept of zombies! Will look at that list in more depth once I have hopefully bagged a few wins

Typhus is my fave and next to be painted offer my 3rd obliterator.

Thanks for the tips man

its been a little while but dont immortals have 3+ armor, if ur opp. is useing them i wouldent waste the points on chain axe's just not worth that ap-4 unless you know theres gonna be some warrior's to beat on
also if you where to switch out ur lord for typhus and the zerkers for plauge marines, or CSM and use the cultist as zombies you would have some more staying power. i have had very bad luck with cultist shooting. some amazing luck with CC cultist thou.

but more then just tyring to pound out a win you should play an army that speaks to you and you're play style. feild models you like and army themes you want, rather then just what works. cause to be honst theres not alot of "bad" list that are so bad they cant be learnt and then made useable with a lil modifaction and a lot of practice.

so if you want a khorn theme then you should go with it, if you want a renagad army theme you should go with that, if you just want what ever then thats cool too.

Ultimately I want a typhus plague marine setup with bikes and a second lord on bike dreads and forge\maulers too with a few zombies for good measure!. But I read that typhus is a bad choice below 1000-1500 point due to his cost?

I see what you mean on the chain axes he is fielding 5 immortals and 8 warrior so they would have a bit of mileage but not with immortals
I may use plagues instead see how they go as I want them more than zerkers in my final 1000+ army and now is the best time to learn how to play them I guess

Thanks for the tip I think I need to look at the enjoyment and learning rather than worrying a out my opponent and a win at this stage. Although it would be nice to mark up a first win to the force of chaos

Thanks

You only get zombies with typhus and not any lord with MoN.

I think at 1000 you can squeeze him in. 1500+ preferably.

Although you have been told to stay out of the necron's 24" range, and avoid taking vehicles/walkers, I think you should try to bring plasma cannons, demolisher cannons. Only oblits, hell brutes, forge fiends can take plasma cannons. These are all Ap3/2 guns that will deny their 3+save but they will still reanimate. Otherwise, I would advise giving your plague marines plasma guns for the Ap2. 2 plasma guns at most will kill only 4 at 12".

BTW, Hell Drake and its bale flamer is ap3.

I think the reanimation protocol is over powering for a warrior, because it is like a feel no pain/ invul save. At 13pts, he gets the same stat line as a Marine and a virtual feel no pain roll. A plague marine is 24pts but comes with blight grenades, plague knives, T5 and FNP. The major difference is that plague marines are instantly killed by a S10 large Blast template but warriors get to wake up after the instant death and dust himself off.

did you get to do you're battle over the weekend i am curios how ur forces of choas did agenst the space tomb kings

No! My friend is ill! Bloody typical but I will keep you posted! Leaning towards the noise marines a little more now I've had more time to think! Maybe too long lol

I don't really have anything to add, but the subject said CC required and I didn't want to lose points off my homework grade

Thats good of you ShadarLogoth you would have lost 3 pts and you dont need that.
you should do you're self a favor while you wait and take what you have and make them fight, i know it sounds dumb but belive me it helps to see what a unit can actuly do vs. what you think they can do. as a side note, remmber that what ever results you get in a Me Vs. Me, that is what that unit will do under ideal circumstances not what they will do in actul battle, still a good way to gauge a units ablitys and usefulness.

Good idea ill have a play see what results I get
Itching to get playing!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Was speaking to my friend last night about tacts and he was saying its a must for me to get into melee with his necron so I can win.

I agree with that but I know he wants me in rhinos and/or footsloggin men into melee so he can shoot me down before i get chance which plays to his strength.

I said I would maybe scrap the rhinos and hold back out of melee range and shoot him at 48'' range to see what he said. He responded by saying he would just move forward into range if I held back - fair enough.

But if he does move forward and I'm rocking an oblit and noise marines with blastmaster I think I can get away with thinning him down considerably maybe taking/weakening his command barge + mss and immortals hopefully before he gets into range. Then move forward into melee with the csm.

Does this sound a valid approach from a csm point of view?. To me it does but I'm a noob!

The mind games have begun lol!

Right the battle took place tonight.

I got completely hammered his command barge just wrecked everything it touched. Although halfway through my friend mentioned that he hadn't been using the 6th edition FAQ but his codex only - any nerfs in 6th weren't being used!. This was hard to swallow after he wrecked my biker lord and biker unit with t6 mon and a melta in melee. I couldn't even penetrate his armour with any melee weaps I had once in melee!

As a fast vehicle he was rolling 2 d6 for movement and the same again for shooting phase so by the second round he was using his AP1 war scythe with 3 attacks from the protection of his barge. Man I am completely baffled by the barge it seems immense! Some strange sweeping attacks too! All of this was a surprise to me I thought it would just be a rhino type of thing but jeez I was wrong!

I avoided mind shackle but has nothing to beat his armour 13 he had from his special rule.

His scarabs nuked my rhino spilling my marines who destroyed the scarabs with help from a flamer.

Oblit glanced the barge before swallowed up by his sweeping attack with his war scythe. One hull point down and the only one!

Then by the time I could advance he finished of my cultists and marines with his immortals and warriors. A few warriors went down but that was it.

I didn't get any champions into melee combat for boons I just felt hung out to dry with few heavy weapons to damage him.

Overal a disappointing first battle. Many forgotten rules or mistakes going against me but heyo we are learning.

I went with :

Lord on bike with dark aura and lightening claw.(useless against barge with AP1 and armour 13)

Cultists x16 with shotgun champ

CSM x7 in rhino with flamer and rhino (flamer man of the match for csm)

Bikes with MoN and a melta gun (1 melta miss then nuked)

Obliterator (removed 1 hull point the nuked by sweeping attack)

Tough night any advice to help me beat that barge! It took out lord and bikes in turn 2! Oblit in turn 3!

:/

Neo-5 wrote:
Right the battle took place tonight.

I got completely hammered his command barge just wrecked everything it touched. Although halfway through my friend mentioned that he hadn't been using the 6th edition FAQ but his codex only - any nerfs in 6th weren't being used!. This was hard to swallow after he wrecked my biker lord and biker unit with t6 mon and a melta in melee. I couldn't even penetrate his armour with any melee weaps I had once in melee!

As a fast vehicle he was rolling 2 d6 for movement and the same again for shooting phase so by the second round he was using his AP1 war scythe with 3 attacks from the protection of his barge. Man I am completely baffled by the barge it seems immense! Some strange sweeping attacks too! All of this was a surprise to me I thought it would just be a rhino type of thing but jeez I was wrong!

I avoided mind shackle but has nothing to beat his armour 13 he had from his special rule.

His scarabs nuked my rhino spilling my marines who destroyed the scarabs with help from a flamer.

Oblit glanced the barge before swallowed up by his sweeping attack with his war scythe. One hull point down and the only one!

Then by the time I could advance he finished of my cultists and marines with his immortals and warriors. A few warriors went down but that was it.

I didn't get any champions into melee combat for boons I just felt hung out to dry with few heavy weapons to damage him.

Overal a disappointing first battle. Many forgotten rules or mistakes going against me but heyo we are learning.

I went with :

Lord on bike with dark aura and lightening claw.(useless against barge with AP1 and armour 13)

Cultists x16 with shotgun champ

CSM x7 in rhino with flamer and rhino (flamer man of the match for csm)

Bikes with MoN and a melta gun (1 melta miss then nuked)

Obliterator (removed 1 hull point the nuked by sweeping attack)

Tough night any advice to help me beat that barge! It took out lord and bikes in turn 2! Oblit in turn 3!

:/

Large quantity of lascanons will make short work of that command barge. Otherwise use your melta guns and get as close to the vehicle as possible. Once you land one penetrating hit, it will come down.

It's affording it in 500pts I just couldn't get more heavy weapons in without sacrificing base troops :(

Ill have a play with my list for next time


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also if anyone can help me with open top skimmer rules it would help me out as he seemed to be able to attack with his lord from the skimmer but I couldn't attack the Lord back only the barge.

So when in melee I was attacking the barge and couldn't challenge the Lord but the Lord was having ap1 x3 attacks against me from the safety of the barge - 4 at tanks on the charge.

This maybe right but seems very hard to deal with at 500pts if that's the case!?

ok i am not athome so i cannot get all my books and give you my refferance's but after doing some diggin online i wanted to point a coupla things out to you
first if you freand isent useing the FAQ he's cheating and you need to print that b*tch out and hand it too him lol. seconed in CC with the CCB you can choose to hit the rider insted of the CCB theres a good desscions on this thread
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/475775.page
seconed IIRC dosent the CCB have a 11av after the first pin? it only has the av 13 till it gets pinned once and it has 11 or 10 in the back dosent it? if you where in CC with the CCB you can choose to hit the bardge adn hit it in the rear, (correct me if i am wrong i dont have my book on me)

and BTW dident i warn you too look up how charitos work before this game so ur freind wouldent accdently cheat you raw? lol. live and learn my freind.

also in CC agenst a vhecile you use the rear armor unless it has a WS unless theres somehting that changes that with chariots i think you may of let him get one over on u. do urself a favor adn get ur BRB and look up chatiorts and skimmers and compare them to what he was saying and see for urself, then goto gamesworkshop.coma dn get the FAQ's for ur army his army and the BRB cause you really need to know them they fix alot of problems(for once)
i will check up with you later hopefully this is helpfull, also what was the mission and the deployment?