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So recently tried out this list against a friends GKs. It did pretty good in nearly taking out all of his units surprisingly. I'm considering running it as my theme list as I've started to see my guardsmen as more city-fighters and we like to use a lot of terrain and ruins. The unit composition is a bit unorthodox (i.e. blob squads), but using orders really boosted their lasgun potential. Helped me take out a dreadknight, that's for sure

CCS
- 3x Plasma guns
- Banner
- Commander plasma pistol/power sword
- Carapace Armor
- Nork
- Chimera w/AC
------------------------------ 320

2x PCS (naked)

3x IS
- Commissar
- 3x Krak Grenades

3x IS
- Commissar
- 3x Krak Grenades

SWS
- 3x Melta gun

-------------------------------- 555

Hellhound
- Smoke
- MM

Hellhound
- Smoke
- MM

Vendetta
--------------------------------- 430

Eradicator
- MM sponsons
-------------------------------- 190

Well that's the list. I opted for krak grenades as I felt I never really get any use out of meltaguns when I put them in my blobs. They give me a chance of taking out walkers that might assault me and gives my guardsmen a better chance against MCs. I did get to use them in the last game against a dreadknight who had one wound remaining, which brought it down. Not sure how well this list would do against a more armored list as my friend only brought a single chimera. I'm hoping the multimeltas, vendetta, and SWS will be sufficient enough to cover that area at the 1500pt level.

Nork is there for fun obviously, and he lends me a meaty model I can throw at enemy challenges. Other than that, the list is about denying cover. I could have gone with the missiles that do that on the vendetta, but I still want to remain slightly competitive, and that called for something that could punch holes in armor. Thought I'd throw this up and see what you all thought.

That and if I decide to expand to higher pt games, what I could add. I was thinking a Manticore (or double down on the eradicator) and maybe some more troops and special weapons at the 1750-1850pt levels.

I know this is casual, but why would you need carapace armor on a unit that is riding around in a Chimera? And why would you take Nork? Take that away that and you can free up points for more gun. Taking away Nork and Carapace alone allows you to give them 4x Plasma guns and more points for other goodies. Like.... more gun! Not only is your CCS cheaper, which you want it to be since they will usually die, but they are overall better. Also, give those IS squads some more gun. Meltaguns will do you better than Krak Grenades, and forget about Commissars. They are only good for melee oriented blob guard and that's deader than disco. Ask Ailaros about melee blob guard since he used to run it and see what he thinks of it now.

With the freed up points, you can not only give each squad a melta gun but also an autocannon. Remember, you always need more gun in the guard. Always.

Less Hellhounds and more vendettas. Run one and it's a big "Shoot me!" in the sky.

Eradicators are not too bad, but it could use more gun. Find a way to give it a lascannon?

Edit:

Here is list with my suggestions:
HQ:
CCS: 165 Pts
4x Plasma Guns
Chimera

Troops:
Platoon x2: Total 440 Points for both platoons

PCS (Naked): 30 Pts

2x IS w/ Melta Gun: 60 Pts

1x IS w/Melta Gun: 70 Pts
Autocannon

Fast Attack:
3x Vendettas: 390 Pts

Heavy Support:
Leman Russ Eradicator: 205 Pts
Multimelta Sponsons
Hull Lascannon

That gives you about 300 Pts to play around with. I'd give more Lascannons or buy another Eradicator.

I would rather give every sergeant in a blob a melta bomb than buy Str 6 Krak nades for the troops. You have to admit, you got lucky with a Krak kill on a dread. You can not consider Luck a sound stratagy though.

Why have a SWS when you have a naked PCS? Save yourself 35pts and give 3-4 melta guns to a PCS. Just saying... that is wasting points IMO.

Since your going casual/theme and your theme is to ignore cover I will work with you here and give some suggestions.

CCS - 240pts
3x Plasma, Banner, Carapace, Nork

PCS - 65pts (Rides in Vendetta)
Heavy Flamer, 3x Flamers

PIS - 70pts (blob 1)
Melta bomb, Flamer, AC

PIS - 115pts (blob 1)
Melta bomb, Flamer, AC, Commissar with PW (I use Axe)

PCS - 65pts (Rides in Vendetta)
Heavy Flamer, 3x Flamers

PIS - 70pts (blob 2)
Melta bomb, Flamer, AC

PIS - 115pts (blob 2)
Melta bomb, Flamer, AC, Commissar with PW (I use Axe)

Vendetta - 130pts

Vendetta - 130pts

Hellhound - 150pts
Smoke, MM

Eradicator - 180pts
Heavy Flamer x3

Colossus - 170pts
Camo Netting

1500pts

If you expand to 1850pts, add a second Colossus (as it's own Heavy slot) and Squad up a second Eradicator for +350pts. If you feel your low on AT, drop the PW from each blob and upgrade a blob to two LCs (leaving the other with ACs, because they are each firing on different targets anyways). If you don't like the triple Heavy Flamers on the Eradicators, you can always make them triple Heavy Bolters instead, but I was going with your theme. Same goes for the Heavy Flamers in the PCS. Four Flamers are cheaper, but you have a theme, and a Str 5 Flamer can be nice to add onto those 3 Str 4 ones. The Colossus ignores cover saves and is Str 6 AP 3, so right up your ally. The netting keeps it alive longer to do it's job and having 2 allows you to either focus fire or be able to fire on 2 units (when you get to 1850pts if you like this list).

Good luck and I hope this at least gives you some ideas!

Well, like I said, Nork is there for fun and gives my HQ some character you would normally not see.

As for commissars, my game experience begs to differ. It's not about winning cc with the blob, it's about staying dug in and surviving. The stubborn granted by the commissar helps a lot with that. I haven't had any trouble really protecting the commissar either, by just burying him in the squad. The way I am using my blobs is not purposefully trying to get into assault but getting as much use out of FRFSRF. The commissar just adds ld9 to the mix which helps with orders and as stated before, the stubborn.

This is what I meant when I said my blobs were a little unorthodox compared to how they're normally played. I'm trying to see if I can make lasgun spam a viable offensive build, which means taking naked guardsmen. I could see myself putting flamers in the squad though to help against charges. Ever since 6th dropped I've been wanting to try this seeing as I can get 2 shots at 24" on the move now. Whenever I think of guardsmen I see swarms of dudes with just lasguns overwhelming the enemy, and wondered if there was any tactical viability to that build in terms of the game. (it's a work in progress as I don't get to play as much currently). Conscripts are out imo, they just don't have the BS to land the hits I'm looking for either so blobs of infantry are the way to go.

Also, in building this list, I understand blasts are my worst enemy, but that is what I am hoping my tanks will be able to handle by turn 2. Seeing as most large blasts come from vehicles I may play around with what I put in my heavy support to help deal with that.

The krak grenades aren't so much as luck, as it gives me a greater chance to wound MCs. Otherwise I'd be wounding on a 6 rather than a 4 against T6. Yes, I could put meltabombs on seargents, but again, these guys are characters and if I lose them to challenges elsewhere, I lose the meltabombs. With the krak grenades I figure I will still actually have those and get to use those. I could mix I suppose, but those could be points spent on flamers?

The carapace is there to protect me from gets hot, and it did come in handy last game. Even though I'm in my chimera, I'm still taking a couple gets hot saves. My commander nearly killed himself due to terrible rolling, but the carapace at least will keep my HQ safer against small arms fire once their ride is destroyed, which more often than not, it will be.

I like the PCS idea, and I'll have to try that out with both builds (flamer or melta). Gives me an extra melta gun too and some points to play around with as well for some flamers on my blobs.

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll look into a couple of them. Sadly, I don't have a colossus/basilisk so I'll have to try something else. And if I really were to drop Nork, it would probably be to push my infantry squads up to 40-man blobs. But at the moment, I don't want to do that just yet.

Do not forget that your 20man blob squad along has 3 characters that can do challanges. IG with Platoon Infantry Squads has the highest number of characters I can think of for challenges. I posted this on a different thread, but a 50 man blob has the potental to have 12 characters (5 Sergeants, 5 Commissars, Ministorium Priest, Tech Priest),13 if you add a IC HQ slot... you can do this twice (due to 2 HQs and 2 Tech Priests). Point is, if you have the points, you do not /care/ about challenges. So your Sergeants has Melta bombs? You have a chance the Commissar is going to shoot one anyways back when you /wanted/ them to have gear, nothing changes now. And the bigger the blob, the better chance a Melta Bomb guy will be within 2" of that MC to place it on him, or if multiple sergeants are, to kill it with multiple melta bombs, since it is still one per attack phase. To me, Melta bombs are a no brainer just because of vehicles/MCs.

If you don't have a Colossus, NP. But I would look to get those before a Manticore, just because the 'Weapon Destroyed' option is /all/ of the missiles or the hull HB (so a 50-50 chance). You also now have a legit chance to run out of ammo in 6th Ed. Also, you get a cover save against it. But hey... maybe it will work magic for you!

You know what, if your looking to do lasgun spam and want to do something off the wall... have you considered Creed and Kell (yes, with Nork...why not!) and naked 10 man Vet squads with Demolitions and/or Caripace for 100-130pts a pop? Nine BS 4 lasguns for FRFSRF is /alot/ more hits. and Creed/Kell means 4 Orders a turn at Creed's Ld 10... and you can outflank your Eradicator or Vendetta. That list might actually make use of Bastonne as a legit option for a Vet squad upgrade. Sure, your CCS is pushing 400pts at this point, but hey, it is a theme/fluff!

If your interested, I can make up a list for you.... up to you.

 WhiteWolf01 wrote:
Whenever I think of guardsmen I see swarms of dudes with just lasguns overwhelming the enemy, and wondered if there was any tactical viability to that build in terms of the game.

Nope. Lasguns will contribute, but most of your killing is done by the heavy and special weapons. If you spam lasguns at the expense of special/heavy weapons you will almost always lose against an opponent who brings vehicles.

The carapace is there to protect me from gets hot, and it did come in handy last game.

You know what's better at protecting you against "gets hot"? More guardsmen with plasma to replace the losses. The points you spend on carapace armor could instead be spent on giving out more plasma guns to all those naked infantry squads.

 BlkTom wrote:


You know what, if your looking to do lasgun spam and want to do something off the wall... have you considered Creed and Kell (yes, with Nork...why not!) and naked 10 man Vet squads with Demolitions and/or Caripace for 100-130pts a pop? Nine BS 4 lasguns for FRFSRF is /alot/ more hits. and Creed/Kell means 4 Orders a turn at Creed's Ld 10... and you can outflank your Eradicator or Vendetta. That list might actually make use of Bastonne as a legit option for a Vet squad upgrade. Sure, your CCS is pushing 400pts at this point, but hey, it is a theme/fluff!

If your interested, I can make up a list for you.... up to you.

Heh, that's definitely something to consider at the higher points level. I like Creed's order range/amount. I may try that or outflank with Al'Rahem. I've done that a few times with mechanized infantry. It did so-so. It would also give me a little more maneuverability in terms of grabbing backfield objectives in a lasgun spam list, which is one of the issues here.

Other than that, yeah I can see the strengths of the melta charges, but I was more or less referring to the current list I put up at the 1500pt level. I can see melta bombs being more useful in a squad with 50 dudes (i.e. 5 sergeants having them). Sadly I'm also currently inbetween armies. I've been working on my daemon army for the most part, which has recently also been turned into a horde codex apparently (not that I mind). It just means I'm limited in the size of blobs I can run currently in relation to over all points level. I might be able to pull of 2 40-man blobs.

You know what's better at protecting you against "gets hot"? More guardsmen with plasma to replace the losses. The points you spend on carapace armor could instead be spent on giving out more plasma guns to all those naked infantry squads.

Yes, but at 20pts for the squad? So that's one plasma gun or 2 meltaguns. I mean, I could drop the carapace, replace the banner with another plasma gun, and grab 2 meltaguns for a squad, but I'm not sure how much those 2 meltaguns will help me. That said, I would more than love to fill my basic infantry squads with plasma guns.

How about something like this then with these in mind (still talking 1500pt level):

CCS
- 4x Plasma guns
- Commander plasma pistol/power weapon
- Nork
- Chimera
------------------------------ 295 (down from 320)

PCS - 30

3x IS
- Commissar
- 3x Plasma gun
- 3x Meltabomb
----------------------------- 245 (up from 215)

PCS
- 4x MG
------------ 70

3x IS
- Commissar
- 3x Plasma gun
- 3x Meltabomb
----------------------------- 245 (up from 215)

H. Hound
- MM

H. Hound
- MM

Vendetta
--------------------- 420

LR Exterminator
- MM sponsons
- LC
------------------------- 195

1500pts on the dot. Granted with this list I dropped the eradicator for the exterminator, but gained a slightly better ability to pop some armors at decent range. I've maintained my hellhounds, but dropped the smoke launchers on them, and swapped the SWS for the suicide PCS. It's still maintaining the theme, while bringing a few better things to the field. Thoughts?

I would drop the plasma pistol, power weapon on the CCS to give your last PCS 4x Sniper Rifles or 4x Flamers... flamers might be the better choice. That way you can swap out which PCS your putting in the Vendetta based on the army your facing... no mech? Flamers for Meltas. Leave the other PCS to be back area defence and remember they are a scoring unit, so even just holding an objective helps or to defend against DSers since both are assault weapons, so you can move and shoot.