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With the new daemon codex, the soul grinder's phlegm attack was changed from assault to ordnance. Am I correct in assuming that if it fires the phlegm, it can only snap-fire it's other weapons? I couldn't find any exceptions anywhere and wanted to make sure before my first game with the codex tomorrow.

Only if it moves first.

 edbradders wrote:
With the new daemon codex, the soul grinder's phlegm attack was changed from assault to ordnance. Am I correct in assuming that if it fires the phlegm, it can only snap-fire it's other weapons? I couldn't find any exceptions anywhere and wanted to make sure before my first game with the codex tomorrow.

You are correct.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Only if it moves first.

Movement has no bearing on this.

Yes the ordinance rules are quite explicit.

Walkers are vehicles, so take care when reading the Ordnance Weapons special rule (Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook, p. 51)

This is spelled out clearly in Vehicles & Ordnance Weapons (Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook, p. 71).

Vehicles can move and fire an Ordnance weapon, but other shots are Snap Shots. Soul Grinders with Daemon of Nurgle are Slow and Purposeful and shoot Ordnance and Heavy weapons as if they were stationary, so will not suffer from the Snap Shots penalty.

TzeentchNet wrote:
Walkers are vehicles, so take care when reading the Ordnance Weapons special rule (Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook, p. 51)

This is spelled out clearly in Vehicles & Ordnance Weapons (Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook, p. 71).

This is correct.

TzeentchNet wrote:
Vehicles can move and fire an Ordnance weapon, but other shots are Snap Shots. Soul Grinders with Daemon of Nurgle are Slow and Purposeful and shoot Ordnance and Heavy weapons as if they were stationary, so will not suffer from the Snap Shots penalty.

This is incorrect. Whether you're stationary or not, firing Ordnance still forces you to Snap Shot all other weapons that turn. All vehicles are Relentless as well, which still doesn't help your other weapons if you fire Ordnance.

TzeentchNet wrote:
Walkers are vehicles, so take care when reading the Ordnance Weapons special rule (Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook, p. 51)

This is spelled out clearly in Vehicles & Ordnance Weapons (Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook, p. 71).

Vehicles can move and fire an Ordnance weapon, but other shots are Snap Shots. Soul Grinders with Daemon of Nurgle are Slow and Purposeful and shoot Ordnance and Heavy weapons as if they were stationary, so will not suffer from the Snap Shots penalty.

Again, the ordnance rule has no bearing on movement for vehicles. For non-vehicles that are not also relentless/SnP, they can not move and fire the ordnance weapon in the same turn.

The only benefit for slow and purposeful is that you can charge after firing ordnance and heavy/salvo weapons don't suffer the snap shot penalty. However. ordnance *always* causes other weapons to snap shot regardless of movement or special rules. Also since all vehicles have relentless, slow and purposeful is a downgrade for them (though would that not mean they always take dangerous tests when they move?).

Ah, I see now. I'm not sure what Slow and Purposeful has to do with Dangerous Terrain tests though?

In 5th it meant taking a difficult terrain test whenever you moved, but it no longer does in 6th. I'm guessing that's what Kevin is thinking of?

Slow & Purposeful is still a drawback because it means you can't Run and can't fire Overwatch.

Oops, ya my mistake. Sorry about that.

Mann - you also can't turbo boost or move flat out or sweeping advance.

Kevin949 wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Only if it moves first.

Movement has no bearing on this.

juraigamer wrote:Yes the ordinance rules are quite explicit.

Mannahnin wrote:

TzeentchNet wrote:
Walkers are vehicles, so take care when reading the Ordnance Weapons special rule (Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook, p. 51)

This is spelled out clearly in Vehicles & Ordnance Weapons (Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook, p. 71).

This is correct.

TzeentchNet wrote:
Vehicles can move and fire an Ordnance weapon, but other shots are Snap Shots. Soul Grinders with Daemon of Nurgle are Slow and Purposeful and shoot Ordnance and Heavy weapons as if they were stationary, so will not suffer from the Snap Shots penalty.

This is incorrect. Whether you're stationary or not, firing Ordnance still forces you to Snap Shot all other weapons that turn. All vehicles are Relentless as well, which still doesn't help your other weapons if you fire Ordnance.

Kevin949 wrote:

TzeentchNet wrote:
Walkers are vehicles, so take care when reading the Ordnance Weapons special rule (Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook, p. 51)

This is spelled out clearly in Vehicles & Ordnance Weapons (Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook, p. 71).

Vehicles can move and fire an Ordnance weapon, but other shots are Snap Shots. Soul Grinders with Daemon of Nurgle are Slow and Purposeful and shoot Ordnance and Heavy weapons as if they were stationary, so will not suffer from the Snap Shots penalty.

Again, the ordnance rule has no bearing on movement for vehicles. For non-vehicles that are not also relentless/SnP, they can not move and fire the ordnance weapon in the same turn.

The only benefit for slow and purposeful is that you can charge after firing ordnance and heavy/salvo weapons don't suffer the snap shot penalty. However. ordnance *always* causes other weapons to snap shot regardless of movement or special rules. Also since all vehicles have relentless, slow and purposeful is a downgrade for them (though would that not mean they always take dangerous tests when they move?).

At least according to GW's Question staff (yes yes I know this isn't raw, but bear with me), Forgeworld's FAQ team (again, yes yes...), and arguably the rulebook itself, the "Vehicles and Ordnance Weapons" section of the rules possesses what is clearly a subheading of "Moving and Shooting with Vehicles" and the first sentence is "Unlike other units, vehicles may move and fire with ordnance weapons."

This indicates to me (and the Forgeworld and GW question staff) that Vehicles follow the normal rules for ordnance weapons, with the exception that they may be fired if the vehicle moves. If this happens, though, the other weapons may only snap fire.

That's what I thought. Thanks for the help.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:


At least according to GW's Question staff (yes yes I know this isn't raw, but bear with me), Forgeworld's FAQ team (again, yes yes...), and arguably the rulebook itself, the "Vehicles and Ordnance Weapons" section of the rules possesses what is clearly a subheading of "Moving and Shooting with Vehicles" and the first sentence is "Unlike other units, vehicles may move and fire with ordnance weapons."

This indicates to me (and the Forgeworld and GW question staff) that Vehicles follow the normal rules for ordnance weapons, with the exception that they may be fired if the vehicle moves. If this happens, though, the other weapons may only snap fire.

Vehicles are relentless, that's the real reason they can move and fire ordnance. It really has nothing to do with being a vehicle at all, except that all vehicles are relentless.

 Kevin949 wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:


At least according to GW's Question staff (yes yes I know this isn't raw, but bear with me), Forgeworld's FAQ team (again, yes yes...), and arguably the rulebook itself, the "Vehicles and Ordnance Weapons" section of the rules possesses what is clearly a subheading of "Moving and Shooting with Vehicles" and the first sentence is "Unlike other units, vehicles may move and fire with ordnance weapons."

This indicates to me (and the Forgeworld and GW question staff) that Vehicles follow the normal rules for ordnance weapons, with the exception that they may be fired if the vehicle moves. If this happens, though, the other weapons may only snap fire.

Vehicles are relentless, that's the real reason they can move and fire ordnance. It really has nothing to do with being a vehicle at all, except that all vehicles are relentless.

Except that vehicles aren't relentless. I don't see anywhere it says that.

Unit1126PLL wrote:At least according to GW's Question staff (yes yes I know this isn't raw, but bear with me), Forgeworld's FAQ team (again, yes yes...), and arguably the rulebook itself, the "Vehicles and Ordnance Weapons" section of the rules possesses what is clearly a subheading of "Moving and Shooting with Vehicles" and the first sentence is "Unlike other units, vehicles may move and fire with ordnance weapons."

This indicates to me (and the Forgeworld and GW question staff) that Vehicles follow the normal rules for ordnance weapons, with the exception that they may be fired if the vehicle moves. If this happens, though, the other weapons may only snap fire.

The problem with this argument, is the subheading "moving and shooting with vehicles" also deals with how many weapons a vehicle can shoot if it remained stationary, that's the first bullet point it provides for you.

If you only referred to the "Moving and Shooting" subheading when the vehicle moved, then a stationary vehicle would only be able to fire a single weapon in the shooting phase, because it would only have rules stating "When a vehicle fires, it uses its own Ballistic Skill characteristic and shoots like any other unit"

The fact is, the "Moving and Shooting" subheading deals with vehicles whether they moved or not, and accordingly so does the further nested subheading of "Vehicles & Ordnance Weapons".

Unit1126PLL wrote:Except that vehicles aren't relentless. I don't see anywhere it says that.

"Vehicles always have the Relentless special rule."

It's right there in bold in the section of the rulebook being discussed in this thread, not sure how you missed it.

 Drunkspleen wrote:

Unit1126PLL wrote:At least according to GW's Question staff (yes yes I know this isn't raw, but bear with me), Forgeworld's FAQ team (again, yes yes...), and arguably the rulebook itself, the "Vehicles and Ordnance Weapons" section of the rules possesses what is clearly a subheading of "Moving and Shooting with Vehicles" and the first sentence is "Unlike other units, vehicles may move and fire with ordnance weapons."

This indicates to me (and the Forgeworld and GW question staff) that Vehicles follow the normal rules for ordnance weapons, with the exception that they may be fired if the vehicle moves. If this happens, though, the other weapons may only snap fire.

The problem with this argument, is the subheading "moving and shooting with vehicles" also deals with how many weapons a vehicle can shoot if it remained stationary, that's the first bullet point it provides for you.

If you only referred to the "Moving and Shooting" subheading when the vehicle moved, then a stationary vehicle would only be able to fire a single weapon in the shooting phase, because it would only have rules stating "When a vehicle fires, it uses its own Ballistic Skill characteristic and shoots like any other unit"

The fact is, the "Moving and Shooting" subheading deals with vehicles whether they moved or not, and accordingly so does the further nested subheading of "Vehicles & Ordnance Weapons".

Unit1126PLL wrote:Except that vehicles aren't relentless. I don't see anywhere it says that.

"Vehicles always have the Relentless special rule."

It's right there in bold in the section of the rulebook being discussed in this thread, not sure how you missed it.

You're right about the relentless thing - clearly a derp on my part.

As for your first point:
It does have to do with when the vehicle moves - i.e. if it doesn't. Perhaps it is a superfluous clause, but they put it there anyways. Fortunately, the first bullet point is in no way related to the Vehicles and Ordnance Weapons sub-heading.