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I really want to make my Greenwing/Ravenwing competitive but against Heldrakes the army just kinda falls apart. I don't want to get into the argument of the Niphiliam Fighter being trash or not but I am considering using 5 man tactical squads with a Flakk Launcher. For 95 points it's kind of a steal but str 7 against 12 AR is a gamble. Anyone have any experience or ideas about using them?

They won't change anything, other than the heldrake might fry them first.

Against Heldrakes you can't rely on glancing them to death, you need to kill them dead. IWND would make up for the slim chance you have with Flakk of stripping a hull point.

I really think the only way greenwing/ravenwing can deal with drakes is with LRCs.

 Griddlelol wrote:
I really think the only way greenwing/ravenwing can deal with drakes is with LRCs.

So just hiding from them? I did say I was trying to be competitive? Could you elaborate on how a LRC deals with Heldrakes?

 General_Chaos wrote:
So just hiding from them?

Yup. If your opponent is bringing 450pts worth of Heldrakes, then LRCs make them almost completely null and void. With a Standard of Dev and a Techie inside one you have a horribly powerful, and practically indestructible unit which can tear through your opponents troop choices.

I did say I was trying to be competitive?

Sorry, I don't understand this question.

Land Raiders do make Helldrakes cry.

Another counter is an Aegis with Icarus, manned by a BS5 character in Terminator armor. Put him toward the front of the unit and he can soak Baleflamer hits, bouncing them off his 2+, and he can Look Out Sir Lascannons and such into regular dudes getting 4+ cover from the wall. You might also want to make this unit a squad of Devs with Flakk Missiles, so they can hit the thing on subsequent turns as well. Alternately, units with TL Lascannons are pretty decent; the odds of a hit are low, but the chances of making that hit count are pretty good, again, with S9 and AP2.

The Icarus is usually better than the Quad Gun against Helldrakes, because you want the higher strength and AP2 to help you kill the darn thing. The Quad Gun is better if you've got a model/unit with Tank Hunter to re-roll Pens.

 Mannahnin wrote:

The Icarus is usually better than the Quad Gun against Helldrakes, because you want the higher strength and AP2 to help you kill the darn thing. The Quad Gun is better if you've got a model/unit with Tank Hunter to re-roll Pens.

I agree, if you're expecting Heldrakes then the icarus is a must. However, I've found that just an icarus is rather weak against the triple turkey list.

I find taking a few power field generators help you just ignore the drakes as well. You can put them on a techie on a bike for pretty cheap. Then proceed to ignore them and any ap3 template weapons they may bring.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also if you stick the Pfg in a land raider you extend the bubble by 3x5 inches

 Griddlelol wrote:

 General_Chaos wrote:
So just hiding from them?

Yup. If your opponent is bringing 450pts worth of Heldrakes, then LRCs make them almost completely null and void. With a Standard of Dev and a Techie inside one you have a horribly powerful, and practically indestructible unit which can tear through your opponents troop choices.

Thanks for this. I totally overlooked this simple fact. And i was wondering how would i deal with Helldrakes if i ever put together Land Raider list.


on the topic, if you go for Greenwing, try Razorspam. A lot of TL LC could help bring down one Helldrake, Icarus the other one. For the third one, well...

I don't like giving advices out of main codex but i just have to say it: If you have access to Forgeworld units, Mortis Dreadnought or Contemptor mortis are both very solid choices against flyers. But then again, you can also use Hyperion Air defence battery.

You can outmanover them and then bring them down when they start hoower. The problem for space marines is that you loose to mutch in the meantime. And you might not get there fast enough if the rhino blows.

 General_Chaos wrote:
I really want to make my Greenwing/Ravenwing competitive but against Heldrakes the army just kinda falls apart. I don't want to get into the argument of the Niphiliam Fighter being trash or not but I am considering using 5 man tactical squads with a Flakk Launcher. For 95 points it's kind of a steal but str 7 against 12 AR is a gamble. Anyone have any experience or ideas about using them?

I'm planning on using one 5 man tactical squad with one Flakk Missile in a ADL w/ Quad. That way you can shoot 4 TL S7 attacks at BS4 and then 1 S7 attack at BS4.

It's reasonable and it synergizes reasonably well, with 48" range. It would double the cost, but quadruple the firepower.

 TedNugent wrote:

 General_Chaos wrote:
I really want to make my Greenwing/Ravenwing competitive but against Heldrakes the army just kinda falls apart. I don't want to get into the argument of the Niphiliam Fighter being trash or not but I am considering using 5 man tactical squads with a Flakk Launcher. For 95 points it's kind of a steal but str 7 against 12 AR is a gamble. Anyone have any experience or ideas about using them?

I'm planning on using one 5 man tactical squad with one Flakk Missile in a ADL w/ Quad. That way you can shoot 4 TL S7 attacks at BS4 and then 1 S7 attack at BS4.

It's reasonable and it synergizes reasonably well, with 48" range. It would double the cost, but quadruple the firepower.

but then if a heldrake comes on he can fry the whole squad in one pass after the 4 shots bounce off his armored hide. The way to kill heldrakes is with vendettas. Other than that you are best ignoring them and killing the rest of the chaos army.

If you don't mind the FW route, those missile artillery pieces are 35 pts, twin-linked, and have Interceptor and Skyfire. Three of them are 105 pts and way better than five dudes with one crappy S7 missile.