Switch Theme:

Are you Tzeentchin kidding me?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Powerful Ushbati





Manhatten, KS

Alright so I played in a 1k tournament today and managed to win it with the new daemons. My first impression was daemons were no longer a top notch army but seemed really random and fun. That was until I ran two level 3 tzeentch heralds in a block of pink horrors.

This squad can put out up to 12 d6 S6 Ap 4 shots a turn. 11 d6 if you take the time to make them prescience (should be auto include). Mind you they have to get psychic powers off to take the shots. The only two down sides is your opponent gets a chance to deny the witch, and that you cant overwatch with these guys.

Looking at the book it appears you can run up to 4 heralds in a list. A level 3 tzeentch herald is 95pts. He can take divination and change. I also take the grimnore on one of them every game for the chance to boost my invul save by +2 for a turn. There was a couple of times where I stacked forewarning (4++) with this ability and had a 2++ on the squad with tzeentch(which allows all saves of 1 to be re-rolled). If you can connect the dots that is a re-rollable 2++.

I suppose I need to get to my point. I think daemons are still a top tier army and will probably still dominate in the tournament scene. However, the overall list you will see doing it has shifted to more of a shooting army. Pink horrors are only 9pts a pop.

The hard counter for mass level 3 psykers...
Nids (if you can get close enough )
Rune priest space wolves (if you can survive being target priority number 1 for the game)
GK (Reinforced Aegis) The more I crunch it grey knights now seem like more of an anti daemon army. With the reliance on psychic powers for basic attacks. The grey knights could shut them down if they utilize all their benefits.


This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/03/13 03:00:49


TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)

TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)

TK- 2014 to Date: http://www.torrentoffire.com/rankings 
   
Made in jp
Longtime Dakkanaut



Aizuwakamatsu, Fukushima, Japan

You can get 4 Heralds per detachment, so to get 8 Heralds you'd need to be playing a 2 detachment >=2000 point game.

It's nice, as you said, but the hard counter is anything faster than Infantry. You've already noted you can't overwatch it, and Horrors are not noted for their close combat prowess. You can also use Land Raiders to take care of it, a Land Raider Crusader would have a field day even before its occupants got stuck in.
   
Made in us
Nihilistic Necron Lord




The best State-Texas

Don't forget Runes of Warding, which can shutdown PSA.

4000+
6000+ Order. Unity. Obedience.
Thousand Sons 4000+
:Necron: Necron Discord: https://discord.com/invite/AGtpeD4  
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

Moreover, GK force weapons will now actually work on multi-wound daemons....and they've got Prefered Enemy to boot.





6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
ATC 2013 - Team Fluffy Bunnies - 1st .....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
7th Edition: 2015-16 ITC Best Grey Knights, 2015-16 ITC Best Tyranids
Jy2's 6th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links.....Jy2's 7th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Yeah that is a lot of shots. Although it reeks to me of Weaken Resolve/Psychic Scream combo. Lots of chances for failure.

Also I think it will be much like the Battlewagon/Burna Boy combo. Its going to work once on an opponent. The next time they will be wary of it and take precautions.

Check out my tournament blog: http://warptravels.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





Now I love me some Prescience, but I'm still undecided as to whether horrors are worth it. Sure they're 9 points, and they have a lot of shots, but the problem with them has been said -- it's psychic shooting.

A unit of Horrors attempts to shoot something with no psychic defenses at all. If my probabilities are correct, you have 91.66% to succeed on a LD10 Psychic test, which is as good as it gets. Then you have to break through a 6+ deny the witch, at 83.33% chance of success. So, your chances of getting any shots at all against a unit that has no psychic defenses at all, is ~76%. Chances are, you're failing one in four horror volleys, so you're almost certainly going to fail at least once every game with them. Remember that non-psychic shooting doesn't have to deal with this. And although you have prescience, you're still BS3 base, not BS4, so 75% instead of ~90% accuracy if you get through.

Now lets think of psychic defenses. Against GK, they have the Aegis, and a better DtW. Your test is Ld9, and their DtW is 5+ at worst. Ld9 is 83.33%, and getting through a 5+ is 66.66%, so you're now looking at ~55%. That's basically one out of every two volleys failing. If they have a Dreadnought, then your chances of getting anything through go down to ~27%.

Against SW, half of your volleys will be ignored right off the bat. Against Eldar, on average, around half of your volleys will fail, and kill a horror. It's about the same for Tyranids, except your perils chances are different.

Even the nerfed Psychic hood is now good against you. Upping DtW to at least a 5+, or even a 4+ if they're Level 2, makes your chances of a volley go off go down to ~61% for 5+, or ~45% for a 4+, in a bubble around their librarian.

When you shoot with horrors, you're putting a lot of stock in the few dice of the psychic test, and the DtW, and then you have to deal with the ramifications of actually shooting.

I should be happy about this, since it means my GK aegis actually works like it does in the fluff/codex pics, but it makes running Tzeentch Daemons more difficult. Lots of S6 shots is nice, and low-costed, but I'm not sure it's worth the chances of them completely derping out at the worst time. Again, Divination on Tzeentch heralds is amazing for their low price, but I will need to be convinced that pink horrors are what they should be buffing.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/11 10:49:19


 
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






Connecticut

I think one or two squads of horrors + heralds can add a lot to the army. They excel at taking out light armor or FMCs due to the volume of STR 6 shooting.
Due to the brotherhood of psyker rule, you can manuver them through a ruins so you can have multiple arcs of fire. This helps you get rear/side armor on vehicles. All your shooting comes from one model.

A herald on a disk is a nice advantage, and well worth the 25 points. It lets you angle your herald to get the same shots that you want, and you can use him to do end game contesting with a 36" flat out onto an objective.

While your failing one out of 4 volleys, each squad is throwing out 2 volleys with the herald. There is only a 1/16 chance your going to be losing all shooting from a squad. Its not as critical as one might think.

Again, I want to stress -- this is not something I would make my entire army off of. There are far to many hard counters, Eldrad, Rune Priest, etc...
However, for a squad or two of support they fit that role very well.
   
 
Forum Index » 40K General Discussion
Go to: