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Could be just my rotten luck, but sofar my Helldrake usually crashes the turn it arrives from reserves. Quad guns are very accurate (and I'm bad at rolling 5++ saves). Worse, it usually comes in on turn 2, which would usually be a good thing, except it means it comes in before I can reach/charge/neutralize the quad gun.

So here's what I thought: since the intercept fire happens at the end of the Drake's movement phase, can I just fly it diagonally off the board and back into reserves, so it's not there to be shot at? Is this legal?

No, the FAQ forbids you from leaving the same turn you come on.


However, you can premeasure. Quad-guns only have a 48" range. Find its blind spot and go there when you come on.

Grey is spot on, you can't fly off the board the turn you fly on, I'm afraid.

On a standard 4ft by 4ft board, staying out of range of the Quad gun on the turn you arrive can be nigh on impossible. Providing the gun isn't deployed too close to the user's table edge and is fairly central, it'll easily cover the entire board with a 48" range. Your best hope of avoiding it in that scenario is finding an appropriately tall building to hide behind. You might stand a better chance on a 6ft by 4ft board, but it would depend on rolling to deploy length-ways, since the full width of the 6ft table could still be covered by the Quad Gun if placed centrally.

The best way to avoid losing your flyer threat on the turn they arrive? Take two. Any army I've played against who has come at me with more than one Heldrake has caused me problems. Both times I've played against a single Heldrake, I've destroyed it the game turn it arrived. Most tournament armies include two or even three of them for this exact reason.

Enceladus wrote:


On a standard 4ft by 4ft board, staying out of range......

Sorry to go a bit off-topic.
What point-values do you usually play?
In my area 6ft by 4ft is the standard, with 8ft by 4ft being used in 2000 point games.
4ft by 4ft has only been used around here for tiny 500 point games.

At my FLGS I find myself on a 4x4 board for anything from 500 to 750, sometimes up to 1000 if our forces aren't of a high model count, but I fail to see how that is at all relevant for the purposes of the point I'm making because there's nothing in the rules binding you to a point allocation vs board size restriction.

I was merely stating that a 48 inch range when placed effectively on the tabletop can encompass an entire board, even a 6x4 one, and almost all of an 8x4 one if playing width-ways. Staying out of range of a centrally placed quad gun isn't easy, so hiding or simply bringing more Hell Turkeys is your best option.

Even at 500-750 points I regularly field a Quad Gun - damn Necrons and their silly cheap flying croissants...

It was my understanding that the game was optimised for about 1500-2000 point games being fought over 6x4' boards. Thats why all the deployment examples in the mission rules are rectangular. In this situation even a centrally placed quadgun will have gaps around the edges that you can use to slide your flyer in on. It might not be the bet positioning for anything else, but at least you avoid the interceptor fire.

I would question the use of flyers in anything under 1000 points as it would take too many points away from the things you need, i.e. decent scoring units.

Which is why you, during terrain setup, make it difficult for the person to use the aegis as effectively.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Which is why you, during terrain setup, make it difficult for the person to use the aegis as effectively.

See its for this reason that we have a house rule of setting up the Aegis after terrain. It seems stupid to me that terrain is set up after it, where an unsporting opponent can ruin the use of its emplacement.
They are meant to be instant fortresses. Why would any force deploying one please it behind a huge hill or building? Makes not sense in terms of fluff so why have it like that in the game?

On topic, yes the Aegis is great at taking on single fliers. Present it with a couple of fliers so it cant take them both out, and focus on it with some havocs or whatever long range high strength weapons you have to get rid of it as early as possible, turn 1 if you can.

A square foot is just under 17 inches (16.97 inches) from corner to corner. Accounting for a 6x4 table and assuming the Quad Gun is set up direct centre and as close to the deployment zone edge as possible (say an inch away), it would only leave a little over 4 inches of space in the opponent's board corners in which they could place their flyer (3x 17 inches for diagonal square footage is 51 inches, plus the distance of the gun from the minimum deployment line).
A flyer base is 3.5 inches wide and 4.7 inches long, and it can't overhang the board edge. Consider the angle at which you're going to have to place it and try fitting a flyer base in the dead zone.

This is an example in the extreme, but it does mean there's no way your flyer is getting onto the board without being shot unless LOS to it is obstructed.

Anyway, we digress from the point of the OP. Use LOS blocking as best you can upon entry to ensure you don't get shot down immediately (place terrain to effectively block LOS to where you plan on landing the Hellturkey), or just take more Hellturkeys - he can't shoot them all down!

Fair point. I had in my head that it was a 48" diameter area, rather than radius... d'oh

Haha no worries dude! :-)

If there isn't a blind spot somewhere you have a bad terrain set up.

You should have at least 2 pieces of terrain that block LoS for everything. A couple 8" tall buildings, pillers, big rocks, etc...

 Sephyr wrote:

Could be just my rotten luck, but sofar my Helldrake usually crashes the turn it arrives from reserves. Quad guns are very accurate (and I'm bad at rolling 5++ saves). Worse, it usually comes in on turn 2, which would usually be a good thing, except it means it comes in before I can reach/charge/neutralize the quad gun.

So here's what I thought: since the intercept fire happens at the end of the Drake's movement phase, can I just fly it diagonally off the board and back into reserves, so it's not there to be shot at? Is this legal?

Yeah, I used to do this with my Storm Ravens... wait until the right turn to take out their flyers, too.

Doesn't work, legally or otherwise. you start to realise

Scipio's Mind wrote: I'm taking this to waste points.

Anyway, the quad-gun isn't that big of a threat. Heldrakes are AV12 and have a 5+ invuln.

Thats only .8 hull points lost a turn, and a .4 rolls on the damage chart.

It would have to be a lucky roll for a quad-gun to mess up a Heldrake.

 Grey Templar wrote:
If there isn't a blind spot somewhere you have a bad terrain set up.

You should have at least 2 pieces of terrain that block LoS for everything. A couple 8" tall buildings, pillers, big rocks, etc...

It has to be a really tall and really wide piece of terrain to block LoS to a helturkey, and since most people don't use cinderblocks as terrain, they might not be able to block it out completely. Simply put, it is going to be very hard to block true LoS to such a large model. Most likely, you'll get a 4+ cover save, but blocking full LoS for larger models is easier said than done.

My question to the OP is this, have you had your heldrake shot down multiple times by the same person with a quad gun, or is this in reaction to a single game? My thinking is, a quad gun is not a guarantee to kill the heldrake first turn, far from it. Sure, it will likely get 3-4 hits, but unless your opponent is just rolling like a mad man, the odds are in your favor of coming out intact. Armour 12, 3 hull points, and a 5++ makes the heldrake the toughest flier in the game. Point is, don't be too reactionary to one game's turn out. Next game he may miss all of his shots, and you dominate with air superiority.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:


My question to the OP is this, have you had your heldrake shot down multiple times by the same person with a quad gun, or is this in reaction to a single game? My thinking is, a quad gun is not a guarantee to kill the heldrake first turn, far from it. Sure, it will likely get 3-4 hits, but unless your opponent is just rolling like a mad man, the odds are in your favor of coming out intact. Armour 12, 3 hull points, and a 5++ makes the heldrake the toughest flier in the game. Point is, don't be too reactionary to one game's turn out. Next game he may miss all of his shots, and you dominate with air superiority.

I've use the drake three time so far. Twice, it was wrecked by taking 3HPs froma quad gun the turn it arrived. The third time, it took 2 HP when arriving and a Weapon Destroyed result. It then tried to pay for itself by vector-striking ork trukks for two turns before it was shot down by Lootas.

I know people suggest getting another (or three) drakes, but I dislike spamming units and would rather try and get some extra mileage from the one, but apparently it's not an option unless Hammer and Anvil is being played.

Suffering 3HPs on the turn it comes in is extremely unlucky for you.
Even assuming all 4 shots hit, each one has a (1/3 to pen/glance, 2/3 it gets through invul) ~22% chance to strip a hull point. The odds of 3 22% chances happening together are (22%x22%x22%) is about 1%. The fact that it's happened to you twice is even smaller than that.

I'd be satisfied that you've dealt with your statistical improbabilities and not worry about it.