Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
Well... the House has published there Budget proposal...
Realize that all of the budget proposal (house/senate/wh) is purely theatrical. Expect more of the same Continuing Resolutions to keep the government running...
The debt crisis ahead is the most urgent challenge we face today. But the deeper source of the crisis is
the drift, under both parties, to expand the size of government. To avert the debt crisis, we need to
stop this encroachment and to revive community in American civil society.
•Erases the budget deficit in ten years.
•Secures $4.6 trillion in deficit reduction over the next decade.
•Lifts the debt over the long term
This budget turns the tide. It makes $4.6 trillion in spending reductions over the next ten years. This
budget reforms government spending programs responsibly. It protects key priorities while eliminating
waste. And it avoids sudden cuts to current services, such as those the country would experience
under a debt crisis.
These reductions are hardly
draconian. Under current law,
the federal government will
spend $46 trillion over the
next ten years. Under this
proposal, it will spend roughly
$41 trillion. And this budget
doesn’t make sudden cuts.
Instead, it increases spending
at a more manageable rate.
For instance, on the current
path, spending will rise by an
annual average of 5.0 percent.
Under this budget, it will rise
by only 3.4 percent.
Washington can’t keep
spending money it doesn’t
have. So this budget achieves balance in 2023 by holding revenue and spending at 19.1 percent of
GDP. A balanced budget is a common-sense, responsible goal. It will boost Americans’ confidence
that their government is getting its fiscal house in order.
In last year’s analysis of the
budget resolution, CBO
explained the economic
benefits of paying down our
debt. By lowering our debt,
we would also lower interest
rates, spurring private
investment. Workers would
see their wages rise as
productivity increased. As a
result, the economy would
grow to new heights. In a
more recent analysis, CBO
projects that a $4 trillion
reduction in primary deficits
would result in gross national
product being 1.7 percent
higher in 2023 than it would
be under current law.
The positive economic feedback from a $4 trillion deficit-reduction package would produce further
dividends. In 2023 alone, it would reduce spending by $26 billion, increase revenue by $55 billion, and
reduce debt held by the public by $185 billion. The House Republican budget is projected to have a
surplus of $7 billion in 2023 without incorporating CBO’s economic feedback. When the economic
feedback is incorporated, the House Republican budget would have a 2023 surplus of $89 billion.
Over the ten-year window, the positive economic feedback would bring spending down an additional
$75 billion, increase revenue by $112 billion, and reduce deficits by a cumulative $186 billion. Further
analysis on the
macroeconomic feedback
from a $4 trillion deficitreduction package can be
found below in Appendix
II.
President Obama has yet
to put forward a budget
this year, despite his legal
obligation to do so by the
first Monday of February.
Until the President takes a
break from his perpetual
campaign, we are left with
last year’s budget proposal
as the definitive statement
of his vision for the nation’s
future. Unlike this budget,
the President’s budget
never balanced—and it never paid off our debt.
President Obama’s most recent budget included a stunning admission on the debt trajectory in the
years ahead. The President’s budget states that under his preferred policies, the federal government’s
“fiscal position gradually deteriorates” and his latest budget projects a debt spiraling out of control
(see chart 5-1 from his latest budget, reprinted here).63
This doesn’t have to be our future. We can turn things around. The challenge may seem daunting. But
we’ve done it before. After the Revolutionary War, our debt stood at the then-staggering sum of $80
million—or 40 percent of our economy. The country suffered from rampant inflation and high interest
rates. Political divisions ran deep. Yet we prevailed. Leaders from both sides—Alexander Hamilton of
the Federalists and James Madison of the Democratic-Republicans—put aside their differences to
forge a solution. Both parties worked together to pay down the debt. And by the mid-1830s, we had
virtually eliminated it.
We also can take inspiration from a more recent episode in our history. In 1997, a Democratic
president and a Republican Congress passed the Balanced Budget Act, which inaugurated four years
of balanced budgets. This budget follows that model. It incorporates ideas from both parties to
address the most pressing issue of the day: our national debt. In so doing, it aims not to reject
responsibility—but to solve the issue once and for all.
We can get our country back on track. But it will require leadership. Either our leaders can choose to
ignore these problems—or it can choose, today, to begin the hard work of restoring our country.
EDIT: picts didn't load... o.O
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/12 16:59:13
Well back in ancient times (2008). The House would pass a budget bill. The Senate would pass a budget bill. Both bills would go to a committee to come out with a mixed bill both could agree on. Then they would both approve it.
Thats before the Senate decided to take the 2010's off.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And now the Senate has come out with its.
Senate Dem budget includes nearly $1 trillion in new taxes
By Erik Wasson - 03/12/13 01:00 PM ET
The first budget from Senate Democrats in four years includes nearly $1 trillion in new taxes but would not balance the budget.
The blueprint unveiled by Senate Budget Committee Chairwoman Patty Murray (D-Wash.) on Tuesday to her Democratic colleagues would also turn off the next nine years of the sequester and replace those spending cuts with a 50-50 mix of tax increases and spending cuts.
The budget would dedicate $100 billion to economic stimulus in the form of infrastructure spending and job training.
Murray argues that her budget cuts $1.85 trilion from deficits over ten years. But once the sequester cuts are turned off, Murray’s budget appears to reduce deficits by about $800 billion, using the Congressional Budget Office’s baseline. The Murray budget does not contain net spending cuts with the sequester turned off.
The details of Murray’s budget came hours after House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) released his budget, which reduces tax rates and slashes spending much more deeply that Murray’s budget.
The Ryan budget would balance in 10 years without raising taxes and by reducing spending over the next decade by $5.7 trillion compared to the CBO baseline.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/12 18:01:53
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
d-usa wrote: And once again he pushes for the same cuts to Medicare that he screamed murder about last year.
And the Democrats propose $1Trillion with a T in tax increases, but don't balance the budget. Both sides play to their side. Duh.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
d-usa wrote: And once again he pushes for the same cuts to Medicare that he screamed murder about last year.
We went over this... he's doing it in a different manner. Now, I haven't read all of his new plan, but if that part is the same as last year's, he's NOT doing the same thing:
The “Ryan did it too” defense is perhaps the most amusing of the three, as it succeeds in being simultaneously untrue, irrelevant, and an admission of the basic charge against the Democrats. Even as they call Paul Ryan a cruel and merciless budget cutter who cares not for the weather service and would gladly see children exposed to E. coli, the Democrats justify their taking $710 billion out of Medicare and spending it on Obamacare over the next decade by pointing out that Paul Ryan didn’t put that money back into Medicare in his budget. So if he had, would that have made their cuts unjustifiable? Well it so happens that he did. By repealing all of Obamacare’s spending, the Republican budget does not spend the money Obamacare took out of Medicare and thus those funds are used to extend the Medicare trust fund. And this point is hardly hidden in the Ryan budget. The budget document spells it out in its spending tables and also explains it in its narrative section, noting on page 54 that:
This budget ends the raid on the Medicare trust fund that began with passage of the new health care law last year. It ensures that any potential savings in current law would go to shore up Medicare, not to pay for new entitlements. In addition to repealing the health care law’s new rationing board and its unfunded long-term care entitlement, this budget stabilizes plan choices for current seniors.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/12 21:17:51
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
d-usa wrote: And once again he pushes for the same cuts to Medicare that he screamed murder about last year.
So he changed his mind. Whats wrong with that?
The proposed budget is quite solid, and is actually balanced. The opposition has nothing close to that.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
d-usa wrote: And once again he pushes for the same cuts to Medicare that he screamed murder about last year.
So he changed his mind. Whats wrong with that?
The proposed budget is quite solid, and is actually balanced. The opposition has nothing close to that.
Eh... Ryan's budget proposal is okay.
The snafu now is that while it plans to repeal Obamacare (specifically the mandate), it doesn't address the new taxes cause by Obamacare. Which is sort of weird.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
At this point of the game, ok is actually amazing.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
I can make a crazy wish list too that is balanced on paper. I take food out of my household budget and now I can afford Forgeworld Titans, and it's balanced! Yeah me!
Wake me up when they are done pandering and willing to make sacrifices.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Its hardly a "crazy wish list"
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
d-usa wrote: I can make a crazy wish list too that is balanced on paper. I take food out of my household budget and now I can afford Forgeworld Titans, and it's balanced! Yeah me!
Wake me up when they are done pandering and willing to make sacrifices.
And that's what it's all about now... political theater.
One thing I thought was a tactical mistake by the Senate Democrats was that they actually put forth a budget plan. Now, they're on record... it's a mistake because, let's face it, they've won by saying "the Republican plan is bad", while not putting forth anything of their own.
d-usa wrote: I can make a crazy wish list too that is balanced on paper. I take food out of my household budget and now I can afford Forgeworld Titans, and it's balanced! Yeah me!
Wake me up when they are done pandering and willing to make sacrifices.
Wow I thought I was the only person on the planet who wanted to sleep forever. Its like finding my long lost brother!
Wack Medicare and Medicare. Lets scrap all the bureacratic bs and just go Canada style.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
d-usa wrote: I can make a crazy wish list too that is balanced on paper. I take food out of my household budget and now I can afford Forgeworld Titans, and it's balanced! Yeah me!
Wake me up when they are done pandering and willing to make sacrifices.
Wow I thought I was the only person on the planet who wanted to sleep forever. Its like finding my long lost brother!
Wack Medicare and Medicare. Lets scrap all the bureacratic bs and just go Canada style.
Do we get to annex Canada while we're at it?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/12 21:37:02
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Repealing the ACA in 2013, after it survived a SCOTUS challenge, is the very definition of a "crazy wish list".
Barely any defense cuts? Cutting taxes for the very richest by 15 points? Good job wasting everyone's time, Congressman.
Its a balanced proposal. It shows you can balance stuff without raising taxes.
And it goes after whats really eating up all the money. The military isn't the conspicious consumer of the budget.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Grey Templar wrote: [And it goes after whats really eating up all the money. The military isn't the conspicious consumer of the budget.
I'd consider 20% of all our spending to be significant. I question the need for 40% of all the worlds spending on defense to belong to this country alone. I have much less of a problem with our tax dollars being spent on the ACA so poor children with cancer can get treatment then I do with, say, the 3 billion dollars we give to Israel every year, that stupid F-35 program when we already have the F22, among other dubious allocations.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/12 21:57:57
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
This isn't a budget. You can't just print a bunch of line graphs and say 'we'll close loopholes' and be done with it. You can't just declare what you'll save by doing something kind of vague. You actually have to specify the exact terms of your reform, and have those reforms costed by CBO. That's an actual fething budget.
I mean Jesus Christ. If I handed this thing over and said it was a budget I wouldn't be in a job anymore.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
sebster wrote: This isn't a budget. You can't just print a bunch of line graphs and say 'we'll close loopholes' and be done with it. You can't just declare what you'll save by doing something kind of vague. You actually have to specify the exact terms of your reform, and have those reforms costed by CBO. That's an actual fething budget.
I mean Jesus Christ. If I handed this thing over and said it was a budget I wouldn't be in a job anymore.
I don't think we'd see the specifics until it's passes the Committee... I think. o.O
whembly wrote: I don't think we'd see the specifics until it's passes the Committee... I think. o.O
It reads the same as Ryan's last budget, and we never saw the specifics then.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
Right... what I'm saying is... that's how it starts.
It still needs to go through the Budget Committee at the House... still needs to be voted on/tweaked at the Senate and potentially reconciled back at the House. The final form could look radically different than where it started.
It could be the perfect budget (it ain't), but the way the poisoned political climate is, the Democratic Senate won't consider it...'cuz, you know... Republicans.
whembly wrote: Right... what I'm saying is... that's how it starts.
It still needs to go through the Budget Committee at the House... still needs to be voted on/tweaked at the Senate and potentially reconciled back at the House. The final form could look radically different than where it started.
It could be the perfect budget (it ain't), but the way the poisoned political climate is, the Democratic Senate won't consider it...'cuz, you know... Republicans.
But this isn't how it starts. It starts with actual policy proposals, actual written down pieces of law that say stuff like 'chain disability pension growth to 1% below CPI' and stuff like that, for a 10 year saving estimated by CBO to be $xbillion. That may not be where it ends, but it's the foundation from which actual conversation starts. Real nuts and bolts numbers with real nuts and bolts cost estimates behind them.
Compare that to the complete lack of actual, tangible policy in the document.
And yeah, Democrats won't pass this thing. Maybe the idea that it comes from the Republicans is enough to sink it, but seriously, how does it read as anything other than a vague list of things Republicans want, and a bunch of words that just declare what those things will achieve (with no independant verification). If I just gave you a wish list of everything I liked, what the hell kind of sense would it make to blame you for saying no to it?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/03/13 06:09:07
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
Frazzled wrote:
Wack Medicare and Medicare. Lets scrap all the bureacratic bs and just go Canada style.
This would solve a LOT of your problems in a hurry.
And thats why it won't be done. Its to easy and efficient. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING our government does is easy and efficient.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
