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I was looking at the new Daemons codex today (specifically, the Warp Storm section), and a strange idea occurred to me.

"Is it possible for warp storm effects like Rot, Glorious Rot to hit the passengers of a transport?"

Under normal circumstances, it is not possible to hit the passengers of a transport because you cannot draw LOS to them (even certain abilities that would ordinarily allow you to do so have special exceptions to prevent this, such as Astral Aim). However, Warp Storm attacks don't require LOS. So, doesn't that mean that warp storm attacks can hit passengers?

And this got me thinking. Barrage Weapons also don't require LOS. So, by RAW, would it not also be possible to fire at the passengers of a transport with a barrage weapon?

Moreover, since models in a transport are, well, in the transport, and you can hit models out of LOS with a blast so long as they are under the blast, wouldn't that mean that any old blast can technically hit passengers?

The really weird part is that as far as I can tell, by RAW, the only way this could not work is if we decided that models embarked on a transport aren't actually in the transport (which would mean that they are off the board). But if we decided that, it would mean that a unit embarked in a transport during the end of a Purge the Alien game would count as destroyed.

reaper with no name wrote:
And this got me thinking. Barrage Weapons also don't require LOS. So, by RAW, would it not also be possible to fire at the passengers of a transport with a barrage weapon?

No.

reaper with no name wrote:
Moreover, since models in a transport are, well, in the transport, and you can hit models out of LOS with a blast so long as they are under the blast, wouldn't that mean that any old blast can technically hit passengers?

No. First, you need to read the transport rules again. BRB page 78, When the unit embarks, remove it from the table and place it aside,making a note that the unit is being transported..
Second, you need to read the rules how blasts hit models. BRB pg 33, "Blast and Large Blast" the unit suffers one hit for each model with its base fully or partially
beneath the blast marker
So how many models from the transported unit have their bases fully or partially under the marker? Answer is pretty obviously zero.

reaper with no name wrote:
The really weird part is that as far as I can tell, by RAW, the only way this could not work is if we decided that models embarked on a transport aren't actually in the transport (which would mean that they are off the board).

There is no need for us to "decide" it, rules, are crystal clear. And current rules don't mean that the unit is "off the board", as you can measure distances to and from the unit.

reaper with no name wrote:
But if we decided that, it would mean that a unit embarked in a transport during the end of a Purge the Alien game would count as destroyed.

If we decided they were "off the board", yes. But if we follow the rules, no.

Can we feth with the rules for gaks and giggles?

Luide wrote:

reaper with no name wrote:
And this got me thinking. Barrage Weapons also don't require LOS. So, by RAW, would it not also be possible to fire at the passengers of a transport with a barrage weapon?

No.

reaper with no name wrote:
Moreover, since models in a transport are, well, in the transport, and you can hit models out of LOS with a blast so long as they are under the blast, wouldn't that mean that any old blast can technically hit passengers?

No. First, you need to read the transport rules again. BRB page 78, When the unit embarks, remove it from the table and place it aside,making a note that the unit is being transported..
Second, you need to read the rules how blasts hit models. BRB pg 33, "Blast and Large Blast" the unit suffers one hit for each model with its base fully or partially
beneath the blast marker
So how many models from the transported unit have their bases fully or partially under the marker? Answer is pretty obviously zero.

reaper with no name wrote:
The really weird part is that as far as I can tell, by RAW, the only way this could not work is if we decided that models embarked on a transport aren't actually in the transport (which would mean that they are off the board).

There is no need for us to "decide" it, rules, are crystal clear. And current rules don't mean that the unit is "off the board", as you can measure distances to and from the unit.

reaper with no name wrote:
But if we decided that, it would mean that a unit embarked in a transport during the end of a Purge the Alien game would count as destroyed.

If we decided they were "off the board", yes. But if we follow the rules, no.

The unit is either in the transport or off the board. If it's in the transport and a blast hits the transport, then the passengers are under the blast template, because the transport they are inside of is. If the unit is off the board, then they're considered dead if they're still embarked in a Purge the Alien game and it ends with them still embarked.

Either interpretation leads to absurd conclusions.

I saw a thread earlier remarking on blessing a unit within a transport. Surley you can not do that if they are 'off the table'

 Scipio Africanus wrote:
Can we feth with the rules for gaks and giggles?

Yes, yes you can. Provided that your opponents agree, you can do whatever you like.

reaper with no name wrote:
The unit is either in the transport or off the board. If it's in the transport and a blast hits the transport, then the passengers are under the blast template, because the transport they are inside of is. If the unit is off the board, then they're considered dead if they're still embarked in a Purge the Alien game and it ends with them still embarked.

Either interpretation leads to absurd conclusions.

The unit and the members of it are on the board in the sense of being in play, the models (and by extension, the bases of those models) being used to represent the unit however are not, as such you cannot hit them with a blast as their base will never be under the blast.

You have special rules for measuring distances involving the unit, however, putting a blast marker over something isn't measuring a distance.

You can never determine embarked units to be under a blast marker and/or template.

Reaper - so when the rules tell you to remove the mdoels from the table, you do not treat that as a rule?

The models are in play, but the models are not on the table. It is impossible to place a blast marker over models embarked in a transport, as at no point will any portion of their base be covered

This has been true since at least 3rd, not sure why so many people are being tripped up by this concept in 6th

 Drunkspleen wrote:

reaper with no name wrote:
The unit is either in the transport or off the board. If it's in the transport and a blast hits the transport, then the passengers are under the blast template, because the transport they are inside of is. If the unit is off the board, then they're considered dead if they're still embarked in a Purge the Alien game and it ends with them still embarked.

Either interpretation leads to absurd conclusions.

The unit and the members of it are on the board in the sense of being in play, the models (and by extension, the bases of those models) being used to represent the unit however are not, as such you cannot hit them with a blast as their base will never be under the blast.

You have special rules for measuring distances involving the unit, however, putting a blast marker over something isn't measuring a distance.

You can never determine embarked units to be under a blast marker and/or template.

Ok, I can believe this one.