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Hi all,

Following the release of the latest Daemons book, I am very happy with how the army turned out. Its not perfect but its fun, varied and solid enough to stand on its own. Well done GW.

However, one thing that still bothers me is the concept of Monogod armies, and how each one only has a small selection of units to choose from. Ultimately each Mono-choice is restricted to a Greater Daemon, Herald, Lessers, Beasts, Elites, plus the odd Engine or Princes/Furies.
Its not bad by any stretch, but ultimately it is still limiting.

The obvious answer to this is to simply play a Multigod army but this can often ruin the theme and appeal of a Daemon army to some players.
Then, we are left with the solution of taking all Gods units, but simply painting/converting them to fit the new aesthetic. While this is probably the best approach to take at the moment it leads to very strange situations. Why is Slaanesh beating up my Slaaneshi-Crushers, for instance.

Therefore, I propose the ability to change a Daemons alignment from one God to another at a small premium. This is purely intended to satisfy fluffy urges and even if the Gods are all balanced, the points increase is just to cover the inconvenience of your opponent in terms of WYSIWYG.
The cost might be something like +10% of the units base cost, rounding up. A Bloodletter could therefore become a Daemon of Tzeentch/Nurgle/Slaanesh for 1pt, replacing Furious Charge with either better Invuls, Shrouded or Rending respectively. A Flamer would pay 3pts for the privelege, and a Greater Daemon would pay up to 25pts.

Is this an entirely unnecessary ruling? Or is there a place in 40k for all the Plaguecrushers / Warphounds / Flying Keepers that people have converted?

It would be weird in my mind, to have tzeentch unit's killing in combat like khorne ones, or High speed/initiative nurgle units.

Well, Khorne hates Psykers and Tzeentch is basically the god of Psykers, so that would be confusing.

Given that the fluff states each type of daemon is crafted from the warp by the individual powers, and are total slaves to those powers, I just can't see any reasonable justification to allow such a thing.

A better solution would be to include another Fury type daemon that can be customized with the appropriate mark. Or, just make Furies worth taking again.

Thanks for the comments so far.

The reason behind this change is that Mono-God is important to some players in terms of theme, but the actual rules benefit more from a Multi-God approach.

Under the old book this led to people making conversions to theme each unit to their particular God. For example, Pestigor were used to represent Nurglite Bloodletters, or Daemons carrying heavy weaponry might use the rules for Flamers.
In other cases it was used to provide accurate rules for models no-longer supported. Pleasureseekers from the SoC book could be used as Slaaneshii 'Crushers, while the Changebringers (Flamers on Discs) would make convincing Plague Drones with the new rules.

While it was tolerable under the older book, the new rules place far more emphasis on the actual Mark in terms of Warpstorm or Icons. Where before your Pleasureseeker was simply a particularly beefy Daemonette, we now have the situation where Slaanesh hates them and they lose a lot of combinations due to their Khornate status.

As I said it may be unnecessary, but I think it would be a simple way to both provide masses more options, and provide a real ruleset for many of the older units no longer present in rules.



EDIT: Probably worth clarifying, this option would likely *not* extend to the Heralds, as they are already pretty similar as base units and I don't want to get into the whole mess of giving Biomancy to Slaanesh or putting a Kherald on a Disc etc.

Or just use your imagination in the modelling of your army?

Mount Plaugebearers astride beasts of Nurgle and call them "PlaugeCrushers"! Model a Plaugebearer with a stream of vomit out of his mouth and call it a "FlithSpewer" (Flamer)

The Possibilities are as limited as you want them to be.


There is no real need to change the actual models allignment. Just use Counts as.

And Mono-god armies are still pretty tough. My friend runs a nurgle list. Tough as chuff to take down!

But thats exactly the point, because while you'll have a blast fielding your Plaguecrushers and Filthspewers, you'll eventually have to put up with Nurgle deciding he doesn't love them as much as his other troops and smite them, or your other Daemons refusing to help them land properly with their Icons. Similarly you'll also have units clearly identifiable as Nurgle, but are unusually quick and seem to have traded in their clouds of flies for either Furious Charge or rerolling Invuls.
Just breaks the suspension of disbelief slightly.

Not really it breaks all sense of logic and common sense in my opinion.

Having Bloodcrushers of Nurgle just seems daft to me.

Just like Daemonettes of tzeentch and Screamers of Khorne and Plauge Drones of Slaanesh.

this makes absolutely no sense to me. if you want to play bloodcrushers, play bloodcrushers.

I love homebrew, but they should only be used to fix glaring problems in the game, or to make fluffy *and* fun changes to existing rules.

In this case, it just looks like someone wanting to have their cake and eat it too. I strongly disapprove of this idea and wouldn't allow an opponent to change the official rules to run such an army.

What I would allow is for them to take an allied detachment of a different Chaos Daemons force. If Space Wolves and Blood Angels can ally, then so should Daemons of Khorne and Slaneesh, or Bad Moons and Deathskulls Orks, or Imperial Infantry and Armoured detachments, and so on.

 Dakkamite wrote:
I love homebrew, but they should only be used to fix glaring problems in the game, or to make fluffy *and* fun changes to existing rules.

In this case, it just looks like someone wanting to have their cake and eat it too. I strongly disapprove of this idea and wouldn't allow an opponent to change the official rules to run such an army.

What I would allow is for them to take an allied detachment of a different Chaos Daemons force. If Space Wolves and Blood Angels can ally, then so should Daemons of Khorne and Slaneesh, or Bad Moons and Deathskulls Orks, or Imperial Infantry and Armoured detachments, and so on.

Or Hive Fleet Behemoth and Hive Fleet Jormungandr?

I for one would be fine with this in a casual setting. For friendly games, I would gladly let you pay 10% more for off-god units, replacing their original "Khorne Daemon" rule with "Slaanesh Daemon" or similar. If we found that any particular units were overpowered (or particularly underwhelming) based on the Daemon-type change, we could then adjust the points cost accordingly. It is a game, after all, and if it is fun for both of us, why not?

Now, in a competitive environment, I would have to say definitely not. Too much confusion and too much room for potential abuse.

Almost the exact same opinion as Ambience.

All it does is add more options, and caters to fluffy lists.

Not sure why there was so much hate when this thread was first started. It's not like you're trying to break the game, you're just trying to make it so your custom army makes more sense.

I play a very fluffy mono god chaos army of world eaters with allied khorne daemons. I even have a CSM prince with daemon of khorne and the black mace even though the fleshbane of the mace completely defeats the purpose of furious charge from daemon of khorne. In a competitive setting I ideally want to usehim counts as a daemon of tzeench as re rolling my 1s is much more value