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I find some people mention clanrats are cheap and decent and that slaves are way good. However i tend to notice clanrats themselves leave me a bit wanting. I would like to use my clanrats as skaven-slaves and then get a bunch of stormvermin. I think as it is clanrats aren't really great in combat and are supposed to be horde-like and yet stormvermin seem better at fighting. However slaves are generally better at taking bullets and then being shot into. I just feel that i am finding myself more and more fed up with clanrats and their worse stats when stormvermin have much better for cost in points and options to the same weapons teams. Also in the way of numbers slaves tend to do it much better than clanrats which can take hits from the enemy, not panic other skaven units and then be shot into while in close combat. Also with decent strength attacks (like from most things that negate armor or bullets) slaves tend to take often as many bullets, spells and whatever as clanrats or at least at range. Slaves also seem to be better than clanrats point for point.

I suppose my point here is not that i want skavenslaves, clanrats or stormvermin so much as a stormvermin and slave army. I think anything clanrats can do is in theory done better when you use slaves and stormvermin together instead.

Clanrats are essentially cheap bunkers for your tooled up characters. They're not meant to dish out a ton of damage on their own. They're basically ablative armor to keep your Verminlord alive while he does the slicing and dicing. You get nearly twice as many rats per point than you do with Stormvermin. I don't even give mine shields, just spears. Don't forget, a unit of Clanrats is also a fairly cheap way to deliver an Assassin safely into H2H with their expensive character.

Stormvermin do much better in combat but they're also more expensive. I prefer Stormvermin pushing a Bell instead of acting as a character bunker.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
I find some people mention clanrats are cheap and decent and that slaves are way good. However i tend to notice clanrats themselves leave me a bit wanting. I would like to use my clanrats as skaven-slaves and then get a bunch of stormvermin. I think as it is clanrats aren't really great in combat and are supposed to be horde-like and yet stormvermin seem better at fighting. However slaves are generally better at taking bullets and then being shot into. I just feel that i am finding myself more and more fed up with clanrats and their worse stats when stormvermin have much better for cost in points and options to the same weapons teams. Also in the way of numbers slaves tend to do it much better than clanrats which can take hits from the enemy, not panic other skaven units and then be shot into while in close combat. Also with decent strength attacks (like from most things that negate armor or bullets) slaves tend to take often as many bullets, spells and whatever as clanrats or at least at range. Slaves also seem to be better than clanrats point for point.

I suppose my point here is not that i want skavenslaves, clanrats or stormvermin so much as a stormvermin and slave army. I think anything clanrats can do is in theory done better when you use slaves and stormvermin together instead.

I agree with Breotan. Stormvermin are choppy and against most core units they can dish out the damage. Clanrats exist for one reason to protect those characters. Personally i prefer hand weapon shield but the choice is yours.

Yeah for some reason i'm just not too thrilled about clanrats and would rather do stormvermin w/ slaves. It's just slaves are better fodder i think with a BSB and leader nearby, they're cheaper, when they flee nothing but other slaves care and you can shoot into them.

As far as stormvermin go they have higher strength attacks, better initiative, better WS, better armor, can actually take a magic banner and can take all the weapons teams that clanrats take.

Having 80-100 stormvermin (2 units of 40-50) seems good to me. I wouldn't have nearly as many weapons teams or character bunkers as you say but i feel in general i get more than i lose. If i get the money (half past never probably) then i'll get this list. I've also been thinking of using skaven-slaves with slings of all things in order to kill off stuff like weapons teams, fanatics and as melee raiding parties vs crewed war machines.

This said i may still take small units of clanrats just to throw in more weapons teams so i can get some ridiculous shooting going on. Several warpfire throwers firing into a mass of slaves would do nicely.

You kill fanatics by having slave stand on them, not shoot them.

BS2, with range/movement, vs a -1 to be shot target isn't ideal.

Empire Halberdier 6 points, light armor, halberds stats 3 across the board ld 7

Storm vermin 7 points, heavy armor, ws 4 initiative 5, effective leadership in blocks 8. I think that says it all.

There really isn't a be all answer.
If you want to run slave/storm vermin, go for it. You can make it work.
Like anything else it is how you use them.
IMO people get caught up with shooting their slaves.
Cheap or not it is only a gimmick. Killing your troops just because you can will be of no benefit. Having the option is situational.
And when your unit just dies from its break, once again you are down a unit.
700 points in storm vermin is a lot. Take 1 unit and spend the rest on clan rats with weapon teams.