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Currently flirting with Beastmen - because I like challenge - and I really like the Cygor model - See what I mean?

Unfortunately, having read various beastmen tactics articles, I get the impression they are near useless. Is there any way they can be competitive? A rock hurling monstrosity can't be all bad, eh?

They can be bad when they cost 275pts.

The Cygor suffers from a very mediocre statline for a monster and the combination of low WS and T means it will get slaughtered against even Core units in combat. The Mage-hunting ability is cute, but relies on both a failed Ld test and subsequent failure to cast. It requires 2 extremely avoidable tests before it even does any damage.
The stone-thrower ability is certainly tasty, but its 'just' a stone thrower. Orcs get a similar thing for less than 1/3rd the price.

You are essentially buying a Stone Thrower that can move and shoot, with a funky anti-magic effect that is wholly avoidable and thus irrelevant. You are not getting a real monster because he will be slaughtered if you try to use him like one.

Unfortunately, the current Cygor simply has no place in the list. This extends to the entire Rare section.

I'd say no, at the end of the day it has the WS and the BS of a goblin, it isn't going to hit anything. Then you are paying 275pts for a stone thrower, which has less defensive abilities than a stone thrower, and hits less than a standard stone thrower crew in combat. But the model, and leave it on the shelf until the next edition, where it may be useful.

Ah, fair enough. Perhaps I'll use it for fun games. It's a shame that the rare section isn't up to much, but at least it means you can focus on specials instead.

If your running a herdstone list having two monste stone thrower nearby does no harm

Take a look at the new 8th monsters. They are generally really good. Arachnarok spider, sphinxes, daemon princes, chimera, even stonehorns at the low end.

Once they redo Beastmen I'm betting you will see those monsters drop in price by like 25% at least and gain some defenses. Before 8th, you could argue it. But with 8th edition army books, their peers will beat the snot out of them at cost.

1 is bad. 2... not as bad.
If you take a bestigor block with the manbane banner (-1 to Ld for enemies within 6"). and get both Cygors within 24", you have enemy wizards taking 2 leadership tests at -1, failing either results in miscasts.
Where it's really useful is against vampire counts where they like to spam lots of signature spells. Necromancers Ld is horrid, and they tend to have a lot of wizards.
1 Stone thrower isn't great, but 2 is a lot more dependable.

You're better off without them, but if you try hard, you can make them work well enough that they won't cost you the game. It's a shame they are more expensive than a hell cannon, and 90 points more than a Kannon of Khorne.

-Matt

DukeRustfield wrote:
Take a look at the new 8th monsters. They are generally really good. Arachnarok spider, sphinxes, daemon princes, chimera, even stonehorns at the low end.

Once they redo Beastmen I'm betting you will see those monsters drop in price by like 25% at least and gain some defenses. Before 8th, you could argue it. But with 8th edition army books, their peers will beat the snot out of them at cost.

Going to be waiting a long time I imagine for that considering they were last book released in 7th. Unfortunately Cygor's are pretty worthless as they cost about as much as 3 stone throwers from other races. Considering most monsters aren't very scary there is even less reason to use a very sub-par monster.

if they were at least a 100pts cheaper, I would consider them. They have less wounds (each misfire takes a wound and it happens to me all the time) they have no defese other than T5 (which is shoddy) so you want to keep them away from gnoblars in combat even.

I think they are terrible. Whoever wrote the Beastmen book was unsure of what 8th was going to be like and they knew 7th was on the way out. I don't think they had a clue.

Of course, I'm still of the opinion that Beasts and Beastmen should have dragon ogres and trolls, spawn and what not in their book instead of them being in WoC.

I always thought beastmen would be more than just variations of goat/cowboys (small, medium, big and extralarge)

competattively, none of the beastmen rares should be taken. Ghogon is fun in a friendly list.

buckero0 wrote:
if they were at least a 100pts cheaper, I would consider them. They have less wounds (each misfire takes a wound and it happens to me all the time) they have no defese other than T5 (which is shoddy) so you want to keep them away from gnoblars in combat even.

I think they are terrible. Whoever wrote the Beastmen book was unsure of what 8th was going to be like and they knew 7th was on the way out. I don't think they had a clue.

Of course, I'm still of the opinion that Beasts and Beastmen should have dragon ogres and trolls, spawn and what not in their book instead of them being in WoC.

I always thought beastmen would be more than just variations of goat/cowboys (small, medium, big and extralarge)

competattively, none of the beastmen rares should be taken. Ghogon is fun in a friendly list.

Can't agree more with the bolded. There are simply too many things in the book itself (regardless of edition) that just seem so ill-thought out.

Bestigor champs can take any Chaos Gift up to 25 points value, sounds awesome right? Well...
Shadow-Hide - Useless unless the champ is the only model left.
Uncanny Senses - I hear +1I is really useful to a unit of great weapons...
Gnarled Hide - Actually could be useful, but who would put this on a unit champ?
Gouge-Tusks - AP for just a champ, using a S6 GW. I mean, it's not completely useless, but again, who is wasting this on a unit champ?
Rune of the True Beast - Let's be honest, almost noone takes this... ever.
Many-Limbed Fiend - +1A at base strength. Worse options exist, but it's super expensive and again... 1W unit champ.

Bestigor champ should have had magic weapon/item access like Special choice unit champs in other books.

Ho hum... still going to buy the model I think. It takes me forever to model and paint a large kit anyway. By the time I've finished, the new army book will probably be out

cygor is awful, sadly. Basically from the "Monster" dex you have only two playable choices neither is competitive. Giant or Ghorgon.

 Flashman wrote:
Ho hum... still going to buy the model I think. It takes me forever to model and paint a large kit anyway. By the time I've finished, the new army book will probably be out

The kit is multi purpose cygor/ghorgon, and it really does have a lot of fantastic bits to it you can use elsewhere. I'm using the loincloth as a banner for my Bestigors!
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well there's a sentence I never though I'd see.

Edit: there's also a stone that works well for a Shard of the Herdstone!

 streamdragon wrote:
I'm using the loincloth as a banner for my Bestigors!

So what's covering your Cygor/Ghorgon's... um... private area?

 Flashman wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:
I'm using the loincloth as a banner for my Bestigors!

So what's covering your Cygor/Ghorgon's... um... private area?

Lots of GS fur mostly. Not like there's any dangly bits showing or anything.