BoniFactor wrote:
Facing off against some Dark Eldar tomorrow,

I skimmed through their codex and saw a plethora of neat rules and units. Any thing I should keep an eye out for?

I am fielding SM.

andystache wrote:


Best advice is engage at range and only charge if you know you can overwhelm them

Make sure you keep track of Pain Tokens, having to over shoot a squad of Warriors because the have FNP can really throw off your normal target priority.

Check the squad leaders too, an agonizer on a sybarite can cut through Marine squads, on the charge you're facing 4 attacks at Init 5 that hit on 4s and kill on 5s. If they've got Furious Charge then they're looking for 4s/4s.

andystache wrote:
Exergy - I've been betrayed by the HB against DE in the past, it needs 5s or 6s against their vehicles and that's annoying.

BaconUprising wrote:
Keep all of your units large to minimise the pain tokens you give away. In cc your marines will murder kabelites and your armour value is very useful. Concentrate fire mainly on stuff that CAN get through your armour such as incubbi and make sure, make sure that you definitely kill all of the units you have been shooting at 3 kabelites fully powered up have a good chance of killing a combat squad while 10 unpowered ones won't do to well. Minimise the amount of veichles you have as they will butcher them, use vindicators on wrecks and grotesques to dent them FnP.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Not knowing his list i can give you warnings about our best units and builds.

If he is a really competitive player credits to carrots he will be using venoms, probabilly lots of venoms or maybe even LOTS of venoms. They are cheap and have a lot of dakka for points. 12 poisen shots will reliably plunk of at a marine or 2 a turn. He will likely have trueborn in his venoms, do NOT let them into blaster range. anything within 24 inches of this unit will feel the hurt. Strong single shot weapons are surprisingly ineffective against venoms, as flickerfields and jink +small target profile mean that they will shrug of a surprising amount. While lower str high shot guns are perfect, you only need two glances to down a venom.*Pro tip* Make sure you know exactly who is in each transport, it will save your life.

Despite what people tell you, TFC arn't that good vs DE. This is because they only have a 3+ save (they are artillary right?) so two venoms and its dead. And while only being single shot str 6 its not going to hurt a vehical, and if a unit is out of the vehical bar incubi it's not much of a threat. While auto cannon preds will do good, make sure to give them some sort of save, otherwise mass lances will make shortwork.

Most good dark eldar players are making use of eldar allies, dont be surprised to see combo's such as warwalkers with venoms, farseer with beastpack, baron with wraithguard and such. These are extreamely powerful units that have a good save vs almost everything. But nothing TH/SS wont fix. Also runes of warding will nueter your libbies, dont depend on any powers or you WILL lose your libby.

Ravagers will usually be naked, but triple lances will pop most vehicals, but you'd be lucky if he took them. If he is tailoring to you like you are to him, expect a dissie ravager. 9 bs 4 str 5 ap 2 shots cave in a marine unit a turn. these a massive priority if you have any marines in the open at all. Do normal marines get stormravens? They usually do very well vs DE because they dont want to be static enough for a ADL, but be aware he will try out menover you rather then kill you. If you run a landraider or any vehical, dont let wyches anywhere near it!!! I mean it, with haywire they are the best anti tank in the game, good luck for you they are only in a venom and only have a 6+ save.

If he wants to assult you, you dont want to be assulted. If he doesnt want to be assulted, chances are you want to assult. Its a good house rule vs DE, use it well. Just dont look at there breasts, you will lose all desire to win. Especially lilliths abb's...

 Exergy wrote:

BaconUprising wrote:
Keep all of your units large to minimise the pain tokens you give away. In cc your marines will murder kabelites and your armour value is very useful. Concentrate fire mainly on stuff that CAN get through your armour such as incubbi and make sure, make sure that you definitely kill all of the units you have been shooting at 3 kabelites fully powered up have a good chance of killing a combat squad while 10 unpowered ones won't do to well. Minimise the amount of veichles you have as they will butcher them, use vindicators on wrecks and grotesques to dent them FnP.

3 kabalite warriors with max pain tokens have no shot of killing even 3 marines.
10 Kabalite warriors with no pain tokens probably will, although they could just shoot them.

Skrog wrote:
I faced off against a friend just other day. This was my first time facing Dark Eldar and he tore my infantry list up! Weight of dice decimated my GH (I play Space Wolves), and the damned DL (AP2) ripped up my WG in TDA. After that major butt kicking I took I've been thinking about a lot of the things they can do to take out my marines and what I can do to stop it.

DE Strengths:
1) Splinter Cannons/Rifles:
DE can take a large number of these weapons in their open-topped vehicles to throw down a TON of shots against you. The best thing to do IMO is destroy the transports so they have to walk to get into rapid fire range (instead of being able to zip up into rapid fire range in a single movement phase). You're going to take the shots no matter what, so try to make sure that the only units they can shoot with these massive amounts of shots are units with good saves (Terminators, scouts in a Telion reinforced ruin, etc). That way the weight of dice effect is a little less potent as you're failing only on rolls of 1.
2) Dark Lance:
This thing is a PITA for Terminators as it's AP2. Make sure all Terminators are in some form of cover until the DLs are taken out so you can still take a 3+/4+ cover save Vs. AP2. Try to keep your marines in cover too, but if the DE player has a choice of shooting terminators or regular marines with a DL... he's definitely going to shoot at the terms. I'm not 100% sure which DE units can bring the DL, but I know for sure their barges can so make sure you wreck those suckers ASAP.
3) Poison:
Many of the weapons the DE have are poison which means they're going to wound your high toughness models on 4+ (or sometimes 2+), so there's really no use in relying on high toughness models in your army (MC's etc). Conversely, poison cannot hurt armored targets (vehicles, walkers, etc) so if you bring a decent amount of vehicles, their poison is completely worthless.
4) Pain tokens:
DE can roll for Combat Drugs at the beginning of each battle. More often than not, the DE player will choose the Pain Token to give his units Feel No Pain. This can be a real PITA as it gives them en extra "save". The only way to deal with FNP is to cause instant-death. DE are Toughness 3 for the most part so Strength 6 weapons will cause ID (think Assault cannons ).
5) Jetbikes:
The DE jetbikes have a few special rules that makes them VERY annoying: They can turbo-boost through one of your units dealing 1d6 hits from the blades on the front of the bike, and an additional d3 hits per bike from throwing caltrops (I believe their caltrops, maybe mines or something, I don't recall the exact weapon name). They also get a 3+ cover save (jink) when going that fast. Also, their turbo-boost distance is 36" or something silly so they can reach you virtually anywhere on the battlefield in a single turn. Best thing to do is to shoot the buggers out of the sky before they get a chance to rip you up -OR- completely ignore them. They die easily (once you get past the 3+ cover save), but often times there are other targets of higher priority than their jetbikes. Using templates or other weapons that ignore cover (Sternguard Veterans ) kills them very efficiently.
6) Flyers:
Just like a lot of other armies, the DE can bring multiple flyers in a stand FOC. Aegis Defense Line with an Icarus Lascannon or Quad-Gun, or flyers of your own are the most effective way to deal with them. However, they can be glanced down (will go over this better when describing their weaknesses).
7) Flickerfield & Jink:
All DE vehicles are skimmers or flyers and most (if not all) can take Flickerfields. This means they are ALWAYS getting a Jink save (for skimmers/flyers) or Invulnerable save (from the Flickerfield). The only way to counter this is to bring weapons that ignore cover (barrage, templates, Sternguard, etc)
8) Speed:
All DE vehicles are skimmers or flyers and therefore DE rely on their speed to get them into rapid fire/assault range as quickly as possible. Try your best to take out their transports and/or keep your distance to prevent them from getting that rapid fire/assault on you.

DE Weaknesses
1) Toughness Eldar
All DE are Toughness 3 base with only a few units that are able to get above T3. This means that your standard weaponry (Boltguns/pistols) are rolling 3s to hit and 3s to wound.
2) Low Armor Value:
All DE vehicles have poor armor (the vast majority of them are only 10s or 11s). This means you can wreck their transports with glancing hits from boltgun/pistols . Combat squads and drop pods is a great way to get infantry into rapid fire range of their transports so you can glance them down in turn 1 before they get a chance to move. Also, this means their flyers are more susceptible to the Quad-Gun (which is S7 Heavy 4 compared to the Icarus Lascannon at S9 Heavy 1) and they can even be glanced to death by bolter fire.
3)Poor saves:
The DE tend to have very poor armor saves (4+/5+) and rely a lot on cover/jink saves to get into battle. Your standard weapon systems (boltguns/pistols) are already AP5 so it's a good idea to bring weapons that ignore cover to negate their cover/jink saves (templates, barrage, Sternguard, etc).
The low armor values and low toughness means that you really don't have to spend the extra points on high Strength/high AP weapons and can bring more units instead. (Don't have to worry about meltaguns or powerfists, etc since the DE are weak anyways; bring an extra marine or two instead of the specialty weapons IMO.)
4) Low Strength Weapons:
A lot of DE weapons are not very high on Strength and/or rely on poison/weight of dice so they tend to have a difficult time dealing with your vehicles. Razorbacks, Predators, Dreadnoughts, Landraiders, Vindicators, Whirlwinds, etc are great against DE as they're going to have a hard time killing each vehicle at range, giving your other units more time to kill them. However, DO NOT underestimate the Haywire grenades! Many DE units can bring Haywire grenades which glance vehicles to death with ease. Keep your vehicles away from their melee units.
5) Reliance on speed:
The DE rely almost exclusively on the speed of their vehicles to get them into rapid fire/assault range as quickly as possible. Deny them the ability to move quickly (wreck their transports), and they are forced to walk across the battlefield to get you. This gives you plenty of time to use their poor armor and low toughness against them as they are forced to make a lot of saves Vs. your gun line.

Another thing that is always important (but especially so against a very shooty army like DE) is first turn initiative. You DO NOT want to have to sit through an entire turn of raining death from Splinter Cannons and Dark Lances before you even get to move. It may behoove you to bring a unit that allows you to re-roll for initiative (like Bjorn the Fell-Handed from Space Wolves or Cpt. Sicarus from Space Marines). If you can wreck their barges before they even get a chance to get close you already have a huge advantage IMO.

That's about everything I've come up with in the past few days since I got my butt kicked. I'm definitely looking forward to a rematch now that I have a much better idea of Dark Eldar strengths and weaknesses.

Hopefully this will help you build a good list to fend off those perverted Dark Eldar raiders!

-Skrog

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
I'd have to go with Exergy. I love my army getting better the more they kill (last game i had a str 64 Archon, soultraps are ace) but dont over estimate it.

Your 3 warriors would lose at least 1 to overwatch, then those 2 will have 4 attacks at str 4...not amazing. If one is a sybarite w/ agoniser (terrible waste of points on a warrior squad, my sybarites get venom blades if anything) hey look, 4 attacks, 2 hits, 1 wound. One dead marine from them. 9 marines hit back, 4 hit, 3 wound. proabilly your dead.

Now if they where incubi its a different story! especially if one was a klaviex. All 3 would make it in because of 3+ and FnP. 2-3 kills of incubi, 3 kills of klaivex (4 attacks, 3 hit, 3 wound ((str 6)) ) and they following5 attacks off the unit glance of armour. So, yeah, be afraid of tooled up incubi.

Wyches are unlikely 2 kill many marines and most kill that come are from hekatrix with agoniser (only person who deserves one are arena b*tches) who statisically only kills a single marine a turn. But a big unti will tarpit you.

*pro tip #2* Something i forgot about in a game vs marines once. They all have Krak granades! Throw them whenever you can, and charge in and use them. They will wreak what ever they hit.