Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey, This is an 'unusual' question.

I'm really looking to consider what you would believe to be a 'volley' army. I.e. an army that puts out fewer shots but hit harder/have blasts.

The Imperial Guard are no-brainer, but I was wondering if any of you had opinions of other armies that can field fewer 'big hitters'.

Higher accuracy and fewer model count are bonuses.

Cheerythanks!

Tau are another solid one, definitely. Broadsides+Hammerheads

 TheCaptain wrote:
Tau are another solid one, definitely. Broadsides+Hammerheads

Honestly, I have no idea why my brain glossed that one over. Maybe I've had a tau-overload lately, Lol.

Hammerheads are smexy too. Possibly able to field lower model-count armies than IG, also.

Eldar could have been an option, but lately it seems you need to build them either with specific units (I'm looking at you, Eldrad and Seer Council) or with as many models as possible to do well. I can see an Iyanden style list (mostly Wraithguard and Wraithlords) fulfilling the criteria, though.
DARK Eldar, on the other hand... now there's a candidate. Simply stock up on lance and blaster weapons, and leave splinter fire to your Troops.

Rustgob wrote:
Hey, This is an 'unusual' question.

I'm really looking to consider what you would believe to be a 'volley' army. I.e. an army that puts out fewer shots but hit harder/have blasts.

The Imperial Guard are no-brainer, but I was wondering if any of you had opinions of other armies that can field fewer 'big hitters'.

Higher accuracy and fewer model count are bonuses.

Grey knights and Space Wolves are the two that leap out at me.

GK throw out a ton of shots, but they only need a few units with which to do it. A unit of 10 Paladins or Purifiers can take 4 Psycannons, putting out 16 shots on the move from the Pallies, or 16 shots stationary & 8 shots moving from the Purifiers, not even counting all the other guys' storm bolters. Take psybolts and all those storm bolters are S5. It's like a squad full of marines with (2 shot, 24", Assault) heavy bolters. And they all get to re-roll 1s to hit and wound against daemons. And you can easily get Prescience from Coteaz and/or a Librarian to give them re-rolls on all their shots. The Purifiers can also borrow a Chimera transport from a squad of henchman (Coteaz combo), and shoot 5 guys out the top while moving. Both Pallies and Purifiers can be Troops with the appropriate character, too, which can give you a low model count elite army which is still all (or almost all) scoring.

Psyfleman Dreads put out 4 S8 shots re-rolling to hit, and they also re-roll 1s to wound against daemons. And they give you psychic defense. Dreadknights are bigass monstrous creatures with 2+/5++ saves, the option to take one of three different big bad guns (including a S6 AP4 torrent flamer; that's quality firepower right there), and can take an upgrade to move 12", and 1x/game move 30" (and still shoot). Stormravens have all twin-linked and high-strength shooting as well; again, high accuracy from hard-hitting guns.

Space Wolves can get Long Fangs throwing 5 missiles per squad for only 140. They can take up to 4 Rune Priests with good SW powers or trading out for Divination to give you re-roll sfrom Prescience. Logan allows you to take Wolf Guard as Troops. WG terminators aren't that efficient compared to other terminators, but WG can do things like taking entire squads of guys with combi-meltas and/or combi-plasmas. Deep strike those in using Drop Pods and unleash havoc. Logan can give the squad he's attached to Relentless, too; a fun combo for that is to Pod him in attached to a Long Fang squad, and have them fire to full effect despite their Heavy weapons having moved. 5 multimeltas in the enemy backfield, plus a wolf guard with a combi weapon, or in terminator armor carrying a cyclone missile launcher? Why not?

Chaos Space Marines are another interesting possibility. Squads of 3 obliterators or Forgefiends throwing 3 plasma blasts per turn are pretty nasty; and can be combined with an allied Tzeentch herald for Prescience for re-rolls. Helldrakes are of course also one of the nastiest shooty units in the game. Abaddon also allows you to take Chosen (who can have up to 5 special weapons per squad) as Troops.

You ought to consider some crimson fist marines as well. Turn one, pedro and a bunch of combi-weapon sternguard show up and blow up everything, followed turn 2 by the rest of the army, also in drop pods. You're right in there, all at once, in for the kill. Plus, properly kitted sternguard squads can run you 300 points apiece, so it's not like you have a lot of them.

As you also mentioned, guard can do it. I'd actually point you to lascannon/multimelta vanquishers over artillery, though.

Also, the new DA sort of lends itself to this, as both wing armies play with few models with lots of fast hitting power.

Yeah, new DA can do it with scoring terminators (decent firepower) and elite Black Knights (tons of twin-linked plasma, plus rad grenades to make that plasma more deadly), and land raider crusaders and scoring Ravenwing bikers throwing out silly numbers of shots with the aid of the devastation banner.

IG can do it with heavy tanks. Manticores and Russ squadons can be scary.

My only real 'limitation' is that I never, ever, use any special characters and never want to.

Limits me a little more than most, probably.

Rustgob wrote:
My only real 'limitation' is that I never, ever, use any special characters and never want to.

Limits me a little more than most, probably.

But why?

They're so good, and if you model/name them differently, no one will ever know!

 TheCaptain wrote:

Rustgob wrote:
My only real 'limitation' is that I never, ever, use any special characters and never want to.

Limits me a little more than most, probably.

But why?

They're so good, and if you model/name them differently, no one will ever know!

I would know and that's more than off-putting enough for me.

If I use a counts-as character, I feel like I'm using a pre-designed set-up, not my own characters and army.

I also have to say this model] is [special character].

When I started playing it was in a culture where folks didn't play special characters. That gradually changed as GW made them more integral to the armies, and made certain unit selections or army formations dependent on them. Folks got more comfortable using the stats for a special character, re-naming them and modeling them to represent a character of their own.

Do any of the armies mentioned interest you, so far? Several of them can still basically do the same stuff even without the SCs.

Grey Knights can still have scoring Paladins or Purifiers (well, a d3 scoring units of normally non-scoring squads or dreads) using a regular Grandmaster's Grand Strategy special rule. GK Librarians can take Div, even if they're a bit more expensive than Coteaz. You can also take an allied contingent of BA or DA or something, with their own Librarian to enhance them.

Dark Angels can still have Black Knights and Landraiders and the banner of devastation.

SW can still have long fang squads, a squad or two of wolf guard for special weapon spamming, a wolf guard leading each pack of grey hunters, and rune priests to take Divination and hand out re-rolls like candy.

 Mannahnin wrote:
When I started playing it was in a culture where folks didn't play special characters. That gradually changed as GW made them more integral to the armies, and made certain unit selections or army formations dependent on them. Folks got more comfortable using the stats for a special character, re-naming them and modeling them to represent a character of their own.

Do any of the armies mentioned interest you, so far? Several of them can still basically do the same stuff even without the SCs.

Grey Knights can still have scoring Paladins or Purifiers (well, a d3 scoring units of normally non-scoring squads or dreads) using a regular Grandmaster's Grand Strategy special rule. GK Librarians can take Div, even if they're a bit more expensive than Coteaz. You can also take an allied contingent of BA or DA or something, with their own Librarian to enhance them.

Dark Angels can still have Black Knights and Landraiders and the banner of devastation.

SW can still have long fang squads, a squad or two of wolf guard for special weapon spamming, a wolf guard leading each pack of grey hunters, and rune priests to take Divination and hand out re-rolls like candy.

There's three I'd consider;

1] Imperial guard.
I love the vehicles and the aesthetic; Too many tiny troops to put together though, as I still have the odd thumb pain as mentioned in a previous thread of mine.

2] Tau.
Love robots, love technology, lesser model count than IG usually. New codex too, might be worth getting into.

3] GK
ADORE the idea of +1S on EVERY bolter. S8 autocannons are the BOMB. Also like low model count. Super-Dislike the inflexible fluff 'paint grey knights or go home'.

Tau are the most liked choice of the three thusfar.

Guard can be a lot of fun with volley armies, 2 Basilisks, a Manticore, and 2 Demolishers can fit in an army with 75 infantrymen and make one MEAN artillery barrage each turn.

But I'm also just a huge fan of artillery. It's a big draw for me.

I could see this actually, from chaos daemons now.

4 herald's of tzeentchon disks, with the blast psychic powers.
3 soulgrinders with their S8 AP3 large blast.

Lord of change with psy power large blast's from the sky.

MSU horrors, each can take a blast psy power if they roll it (2/3 chance of getting some kind of blast)

Could be crazy if done right

But honestly? Guard are king at this, and will be for a while methinks.

CSM also pack S8 autocannons (the Hades which you can have 2 of on each ForgeFiend at 8 str8 AP4 shots and 1 str8 ap2 small blast (ecto cannon))

the Drakes with either the hades or baleflamer..

Hellbrutes (dreadnaughts) (and yes crazed is bad but) ML + PC/TLLC

the above 3 go in 3 different slots too.... so you can theoretically take 3 of each...

Troops is your choice of elite depending on what mark you stuff on your lord/sorc (noise marines with 8 sonic weps +2 Blast Masters so that you can toy with wound allocation and ignore night fighting coversaves with the blast masters at range)

Allies for 135 pts you get 10 pink horrors and 1 tzeentch herald for your prescience librarian skills....

 Evileyes wrote:
I could see this actually, from chaos daemons now.

4 herald's of tzeentchon disks, with the blast psychic powers.
3 soulgrinders with their S8 AP3 large blast.

Lord of change with psy power large blast's from the sky.

MSU horrors, each can take a blast psy power if they roll it (2/3 chance of getting some kind of blast)

Could be crazy if done right

But honestly? Guard are king at this, and will be for a while methinks.

I'm quite tempted by chaos (Daemons or Marines). if they can really pack in the blasts, that's awesome.

I've always wanted to create a CSM list where every model is some kind of twisted or possessed machine; but the key (no bikes as troops) is a pain.


If I can do Chaos Daemons and get the sort of 'heavy hitter/volley' effect, that would be great. I would probably do mono Tzeentch and make everything really bizarre. Horrors and flamers are pretty twisted already!


Nevertheless, I've spent all day thinking about all the conversions I could do playing Orks.
Wondering if I can pack in a lot of blast/template/vehicles into Ork armies.

Orks can get a few good blasts- big gun Kannon squads in HS, and battlewagons (which can be HS or taken as transports for Nobs) with kilcannons on them.

I think the best option is probably GK with some allied IG. Say a primaris psyker, a squad of Veterans with triple plasmaguns in a Vendetta, and a manticore or squadron of griffons. That will get you some more high-quality shooting without a huge model count, and will satisfy your treadhead and large blast desires.

I'll throw a vote out there for Dark Angels (Greenwing) with a Banner of Devastation. It's rather effective (would you like 4 bolter shots at 24" range for every single Marine affected?) and still gives you a decent model count with hefty fire power. Then you add in a LRC, with a Techmarine (w/PFG) and you now have an AV14 monster with a 4++ (that also projects a 3" 4++ to surrounding models). I haven't run it yet, but I plan to start running that list with two Vindicators flanked on either side of the LRC.

I had a GK list with Coteaz and another Inq. Each had 4 monkeys and 3 PC servitors w/ them. That is a lot of re-rolling plasma cannons/las cannons.

I also used 3 Tech Marines w/ Conversion Beamers and the Heavy Squad w/ astral sight so they could shoot anywhere.

With just the above that is 6 Rerolling PC blasts. 8 Las Cannons rerolling, and 3 very long range Beamers that don't need LOS.

Also if they get close to those monkeys I love the 4 Hvy Flamers or 4 Meltas shooting vehicles. That list smashed flyers too w/ all the re-rolling las cannons.

Throw a Psyker squad or 2 in for some other 10str Ap1 blasts. They do have limited range tho. 24'.

 Brock79 wrote:
I'll throw a vote out there for Dark Angels (Greenwing) with a Banner of Devastation. It's rather effective (would you like 4 bolter shots at 24" range for every single Marine affected?) and still gives you a decent model count with hefty fire power. Then you add in a LRC, with a Techmarine (w/PFG) and you now have an AV14 monster with a 4++ (that also projects a 3" 4++ to surrounding models). I haven't run it yet, but I plan to start running that list with two Vindicators flanked on either side of the LRC.

But are Bolters really "heavy hitters"?

 TheCaptain wrote:

 Brock79 wrote:
I'll throw a vote out there for Dark Angels (Greenwing) with a Banner of Devastation. It's rather effective (would you like 4 bolter shots at 24" range for every single Marine affected?) and still gives you a decent model count with hefty fire power. Then you add in a LRC, with a Techmarine (w/PFG) and you now have an AV14 monster with a 4++ (that also projects a 3" 4++ to surrounding models). I haven't run it yet, but I plan to start running that list with two Vindicators flanked on either side of the LRC.

But are Bolters really "heavy hitters"?

I wouldn't consider them to be, personally.

How about Necron lists. I haven't delved into their codex really, but they have some interesting weapons such as the tesla guns that arc, or gauss glancing on 6s? Do they have many blast/template/long rage firepower also?

 TheCaptain wrote:

 Brock79 wrote:
I'll throw a vote out there for Dark Angels (Greenwing) with a Banner of Devastation. It's rather effective (would you like 4 bolter shots at 24" range for every single Marine affected?) and still gives you a decent model count with hefty fire power. Then you add in a LRC, with a Techmarine (w/PFG) and you now have an AV14 monster with a 4++ (that also projects a 3" 4++ to surrounding models). I haven't run it yet, but I plan to start running that list with two Vindicators flanked on either side of the LRC.

But are Bolters really "heavy hitters"?

Personally, I would regard them as "heavy hitters" considering the volume of fire you are getting from your basic troop choice. If you're speaking purely in terms of strength and strength alone then I can't disagree as Psybolt-ammo or Pulse Rifles are the "heavy hitters".

Anecdotal evidence time! Last night I played a game against a Tyranid player and on turn 2 I grounded his Flyrant through sheer volume of Bolter shots and then finished him off that same round with a few Las/Plas shots.

 Brock79 wrote:

 TheCaptain wrote:

 Brock79 wrote:
I'll throw a vote out there for Dark Angels (Greenwing) with a Banner of Devastation. It's rather effective (would you like 4 bolter shots at 24" range for every single Marine affected?) and still gives you a decent model count with hefty fire power. Then you add in a LRC, with a Techmarine (w/PFG) and you now have an AV14 monster with a 4++ (that also projects a 3" 4++ to surrounding models). I haven't run it yet, but I plan to start running that list with two Vindicators flanked on either side of the LRC.

But are Bolters really "heavy hitters"?

Personally, I would regard them as "heavy hitters" considering the volume of fire you are getting from your basic troop choice. If you're speaking purely in terms of strength and strength alone then I can't disagree as Psybolt-ammo or Pulse Rifles are the "heavy hitters".

Anecdotal evidence time! Last night I played a game against a Tyranid player and on turn 2 I grounded his Flyrant through sheer volume of Bolter shots and then finished him off that same round with a few Las/Plas shots.

Honestly, while psybolters and pulse rifles are the 'heavy hitters' of infantry weapons, I was more-so talking about the larger weapons of armies such as artillery on the like.

Given my other thread, though, I may well be making use of Blood Angels.