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I ask, whats considered a good overall army size in WM to have. i realize that say the average game is going to be around the 35pts mark, but how big do people consider a good size for fun and competitiveness to allow for substituting models etc etc without going completely crazy?

35 is like a 1500 point game, its pretty much the standard
50 is like a 2000 pt game, its about as high as you want to go without going nuts

I wouldn't worry about points as much as about what you may want. For instance a character jack could run you 12 points or you might be able to get 2 units for the same points or 6 solos or some combination thereof.
Take a look at your force and think about what you may want to exchange for what you already have. You should probably have a second caster just for variety (but he doesn't count against you point limit). So, like I said just buy what you feel you need/want and play it by ear.

I think one of the things I really enjoy about Warmachine is the collecting. I've never played higher than 35pts (though 500 in MK1) but I have a sizeable collection.

4 casters, 6 jacks, 10 solos, 4 full units and around 10 merc solos so I can try bits and change bits around. I know what my core is up to around 20pts but I like to try things with the extra 5/15.

Though another thing I really like is, you can build an inexpensive 25pt list which is still an average competative starter game, of every faction you like before deciding to grow.

Now I'm mostly over menoth, I'm moving on to 25pts of Circle and Cygnar to see what I like next!

oh sorry i spose i should re explain my question. if your games are usually 35 pts maybe even as high as 50. how big should your overall army be?

eg i usaully play 1999+1 40k games but have 10,000 pts of models to choose from. is what im getting at..

so with WM in mind would you say at about 100pts of total force you would have most bases covered?

I think that you have to break it down more by type of model rather than points. You want to have 2+ casters, probably 4+ jacks (depending on caster and faction), 4+ units (again depending on caster and faction) and however many solos that you like.
I say this because some casters fit better with certain units than others and the same with jacks.
What faction are you interested in and which casters? From there maybe you can get better input from the rest of us.

Well its all about how you plan on going about it.

I have about 160ish points of Khador and 5 different casters. It gives me the ability to change everything out and run a crazy amount of different and diverse armies.

(and if you cant tell I kinda have "shiny model syndrome").

ok so this is what im looking at atm...

Menoth:
eFeora
eKreoss

iv also got the stuff from the 2 player box as well....

if i was to flesh this out how do you think best to go about it... Also is there any other caster recomended?

Also thanks for the fast replies on this guys

The first thing that any Menoth player grabs is usually a unit of choir.
I'm not a Menoth player and there aren't many in my meta so I don't see them that often so I can't give you any more advice. You may want to read:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Protectorate_of_Menoth
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Protectorate_of_Menoth_Warcaster_Gameplay_Styles

yeah iv had a squiz and yeah choir, is pretty much auto take.... play tested them in a game tonight and were rather effective especially the each model buffs a jack in range etc...

eFeora will probably end up my primary caster...
redeemer and Vanquisher for ranged hitting though the vanq is much closer ranged... but overall, there is enough units to choose from taht you will have a much larger supporting force for when you want to swap things out, which is what i was wondering, how large a back up force do you think is normally sensible..

There is no maximum size on a collection and no rule of thumb for how many points you need to have a competitive force. You don't ever really stop at a certain collection size, you just buy the things you want to play, don't buy what doesn't fit your playstyle, and wait for the next expansion book to add a lot of new stuff to make you drool over and the next year's steamroller to shake up the competitive environment.

If it helps, the current steamroller tournament format has players bring two 50 point lists each with an extra 10 points of specialists. Noncharacter models can overlap so one need not bring a full 120 points to a tournament.

EDIT: I suggest not getting more than two of anything. Variety is much more important than spamming what seems the best. Spam does not pay off except in a few specific lists. In fact, only get doubles of things you really love.

It doesn't work like 40k does with the "I play 2,000 but have 10,000pts".

It's more, I buy what I like and may use, then work on the synergy in your different lists.

I play Menoth, I have pFeora but don't really like her so don't have Daughters, but by what I've heard they're quite good synergy for her.

I play Harbinger, in my own way. I run a Jack wall at 25pts, at 35pts a full unit + ua + another solo come in. But a lot of people will play units first.

 ausYenLoWang wrote:
ok so this is what im looking at atm...

Menoth:
eFeora
eKreoss

iv also got the stuff from the 2 player box as well....

if i was to flesh this out how do you think best to go about it... Also is there any other caster recomended?

Also thanks for the fast replies on this guys

I heavily recommend pSeverius. Eye of Menoth makes troops like zealots and deliverers the scariest things for your opponent to see. He also makes your flamers POW 15 on jacks with choir. He generally just works with everything and is great for using new models as such.

eFeora and eKreoss generally like different things so you will end up having probably around 70pts to choose from no matter what. eKreoss loves him exemplars in all forms. eFeora is generally a jack caster.

@ammp yes i agree with that, but 40k at 10k points you really do have pretty much the entire codex at your fingertips so it also works like your saying with WM.

@surtur thanks for that ill look into severius... so eye + choir is +3 to jack damage rolls + 3 to hit (mat/rat) in a 16" radius? death sentence doesnt look too bad either....

keep the suggestions coming people liking the discussion so far...

 ausYenLoWang wrote:
oh sorry i spose i should re explain my question. if your games are usually 35 pts maybe even as high as 50. how big should your overall army be?

eg i usaully play 1999+1 40k games but have 10,000 pts of models to choose from. is what im getting at..

so with WM in mind would you say at about 100pts of total force you would have most bases covered?

Big enough to play what you want?

Really though, I find tabletop mini games all about time. The more you play the more models you end up with. Even in my final days of playing 40K I had bought a couple drop pods and another rhino.

Basically, I add to my collection as I have money and interest in a particular unit/model/caster/etc.

 ausYenLoWang wrote:
@ammp yes i agree with that, but 40k at 10k points you really do have pretty much the entire codex at your fingertips so it also works like your saying with WM.

@surtur thanks for that ill look into severius... so eye + choir is +3 to jack damage rolls + 3 to hit (mat/rat) in a 16" radius? death sentence doesnt look too bad either....

keep the suggestions coming people liking the discussion so far...

pSeverius is imo, the perfect support caster. He can change from throwing out buffs into a spell assassination caster on a dime. With a wrack and hierophant he has effectively 10 Focus and has a 2 focus nuke and with Blessing of Vengeance he gets +2 damage on top of the +1 from eye of Menoth.

50 points is the tournament standard because at that level everything starts to balance out, both between Hordes and Warmachine but also because thats when you don't suffer for taking support and a lot of factions excel at that level.

Also Sevvy1 is an excellent caster who works great with Jacks.

 Surtur wrote:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:
@ammp yes i agree with that, but 40k at 10k points you really do have pretty much the entire codex at your fingertips so it also works like your saying with WM.

@surtur thanks for that ill look into severius... so eye + choir is +3 to jack damage rolls + 3 to hit (mat/rat) in a 16" radius? death sentence doesnt look too bad either....

keep the suggestions coming people liking the discussion so far...

pSeverius is imo, the perfect support caster. He can change from throwing out buffs into a spell assassination caster on a dime. With a wrack and hierophant he has effectively 10 Focus and has a 2 focus nuke and with Blessing of Vengeance he gets +2 damage on top of the +1 from eye of Menoth.

He is not the perfect support caster

He is the perfect caster!

Draxos wrote:
50 points is the tournament standard because at that level everything starts to balance out, both between Hordes and Warmachine but also because thats when you don't suffer for taking support and a lot of factions excel at that level.

Also Sevvy1 is an excellent caster who works great with Jacks.

50pts has been the general tournament standard everywhere I go, and you usually want two lists to boot.

 AduroT wrote:

Draxos wrote:
50 points is the tournament standard because at that level everything starts to balance out, both between Hordes and Warmachine but also because thats when you don't suffer for taking support and a lot of factions excel at that level.

Also Sevvy1 is an excellent caster who works great with Jacks.

50pts has been the general tournament standard everywhere I go, and you usually want two lists to boot.

Yup. It gives people options to play with and it decreases the odds of you running into match ups where you just auto lose. I recently started fantasy after 3 years of warmachine and I find it very frustrating since I have gone into a few match ups knowing I was going to lose and the other list I could have brought would have done better.

If you really want to dive deep into WM, I'd aim for about 100 or so points. Once you play enough games with your starter force to get an idea of what you like, you can expand. You'll quickly figure out what units you want and which you don't. Having a broad range of casters will add more diversity to your collection than any unit.

Above 200, you'll so rarely get to roll out a lot of your units that stuff is going to languish, and you might get more out of another army completely.

I currently have just over 80pts of Cygnar, plan to add an ATGM + UA, which will bring me to about 90pts. I figure that gives me good selection for up to 50pt games.

I have a decent sized Skorne force of about 140 points including some Minions support. Also excluding Warlocks since it's hard to calculate their "point value" compared to the rest. This is about 90 models including heavy beasts, infantry (heavy and normal), solos and warlocks.

I think you could make several interesting lists for about 100 points. You could also make two 50-points lists easily if you have you warlocks/warcasters with alot of non-character overlapping interests. There's usually some really good options for each faction that fits well with most warlocks/warcasters for that faction.

Even if you end up going whole hog and collecting everything, it is not going to seem that big. I have everyting for Circle save the Woldwrath, and a couple doubles of warbeasts and solos about , and it is just above 300pts not including all the warlocks. But this is after playing the game coming on seven years and collecting pretty slowly over that time. As shown above, you can get plenty of variety wiht just four or five casters and what things you like. In my case, it isn't like I even play everyting above, although I try to play parts of it now and again in tests and fun games.

And stuff.