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Hey all!

So, I was at my gaming club today and two guys there were learning how to play FOW and invited me to play 1v1v1 with them. We were all just learning the basics of shooting, movement and all just with tanks and I have to say it was a nice change of pace to what I'm usually used to. So, I've been looking at the website and I think I'll get some late war German tanks. The thing is though, I don't know what tanks are good and what tanks are bad. So, I've been using the rule of cool and I've picked out tanks I like.
I like German armour anyway and I've painted plenty of larger scale models. I like Panthers for their background of being a formidable foe on the battlefield, but how do they translate into the game? I like Tigers for the same reason and again, the same question applies for them too. I've also been thinking of including some Luftwaffe elements to my tank company, namely the Stuka dive bomber. It's hardly historically accurate, but I love them. Would this be a decent starter army, and what could I add to it to make it better? I was told that infantry is great but I'm not a fan to be honest. My last question is what book should I get if I am getting into this army?
If someone could get back to me, it'd be a great help.
Thanks,
Tyranid Horde

EDIT: I didn't see the sticky post at the top of this forum, but your input is still greatly appreciated!

You want a little of everything... Some infantry, some artillery and some tanks... It tends to be easier to defend than attack so I would recommend infantry based rather than tank based... don't worry though, you are still going to put a majority of your points into tanks.

Also I would recommend Fearless Veterans rather than any trained troops... It is just a lot easier...

So - just a suggestion - from Fortress Europa -

Fallschirmjager Company

HQ 55
Fallschirmjager Platoon 250
Fallschirmjager Platoon 250
Fallschirmjager MG Platoon 170
Fallschirmjager Tank Hunter Platoon 330 ( 3 StuGs)
Heavy Tank Platoon: 3 Tiger I E 645
Heavy Mortar Platoon: 230 (12cm Mortars)

1930... No Anti-Air or Air Support

AA Gun Platoon: 2 SdKfz 10/5 60

1990

Panthers in a tank company -for instance taking minimum platoons...

HQ : 2 Panther 375
Pz Platoon: 3 Panthers: 560
Pz Platoon: 3 Panthers 560

So you have spent 1495 and have no infantry, artillery, anti-air or air support yet...

If you like Panthers, there are a few good lists, but due to the points and list options they're often very expensive!

Have a look at this PDF off the battlefront website

http://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=3730

You can make a cheap (models cost a lot of points) panther force with some bits such as

2 Panthers (HQ)
3 Panthers
3 Panthers
2 Mobelwagons
4 Nebelwerfers (panzer rocket launcher)

don't expect to win too much, but you can learn the rules easily

I'm also learning the game with a mix of mostly infantry and tanks for now. I think having a platoon of panthers in your force might be cool, but you really need some infantry to protect them... it is very easy for allies to run up and either assualt them, or take shots on the side armor which is thin.

The tanks I use are 3 Stugs and 5 Panzer IV's, It gives me a lot of models on the table to play with and learn the manouvering. And plenty of infantry, also to learn the game with. After I'm comfortable with that I'm going to play around with mortars, then heavy artillery and air support.

You could keep the same layout but cheapen the infanty and go with grendiers...

HQ: 40
Gren Platoon: 155
Gren Platoon: 155
Gren MG Platoon: 140
Hvy Mortar Platoon: 215
AA Platoon: 60 2 x SdKfz 10/5
765
That leaves you with 1235 to spend on Tanks!!!

Like 4x Tiger I E 860 and 4 x StuG 380 1240 (got to find 5 points to dump)
or 2 x Konigs Tiger 680 and 2x Jagdpather 470 1150
or 4 x Pz iv 380 + 2 x Jagdpanther 470 + 3 x PaK 40 165 + 3 x PaK 40 165 = 1180
or 2 x FlaK38 w Extra Crew 225. 3 x PaK43/41 330 and 3 x Panthers 750 = 1305 (Lose the AA platoon)
(OMG 2 x 88/56, 3 x 88/71 and 3 x 75/70 --- JS IIs beware!!!)

Panthers are great and as Reaver83 said there are a good many good Panther lists out there. You could bring in a little Tiger support too. Plastic Soldier Company is the place you're looking for to build such an army with cheap but great components:
Panther company: http://theplasticsoldiercompany.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_22_24_50&products_id=284
Tiger I company: http://theplasticsoldiercompany.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_22_24_50&products_id=489
and platoon: http://theplasticsoldiercompany.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_22_24_50&products_id=455

i would rather play defensively on 1 side of the board and offensively on the other

on the defensive keep the all of your troops(except the best ones you have)and some light tanks and all of your artillery behind all of them.make sure you have some cover for everything.

on the offensive i would take loads of light tanks and all your fave troops and very few heavy tanks and take out half of their force quickly and work round to corner them with your defensive and offensive troops
make sure your enemy is constantly attacking your defensive in this tactic,so put all of your stuff that the enemy needs to destroy on the defensive.

keep most of your troops on offensive though.

if your offensive got smashed then you can still win because you can use your defensive, defending is easier than attacking.

so if i were you i would take some artillery with heavy troops to defend it with some light tanks
then i would take loads of light infantry and light tanks so you have lots of guns because they are cheap so you can buy alot of them.
then get some heavy tanks for attacking and some heavy troops in attacking reserve

Thanks for all the great replies guys! I'm really pleased to see some cheaper alternatives to what looks pretty expensive for single tanks by FOW.
Would it be worth it for me to buy Open Fire as a starter army to add to some Tiger 1s? It would give me the rulebook aswell as StuGs and infantry. If I add Tigers, some AA and artillery could that bring me up to 1500pts? That seems to be a pretty common points level. And I can get the books for the germans on easy army right?, or would it be better to buy the v3 bundle? I'm asking a lot of questions, but I just want to be clear, thanks.

Nice to see that you're so enthused, it's a great little game and it's actually starting to gain traction in Ireland. There was a tournament in Derry about a month ago and I know there's a few players in and around the Northwest.

To answer some of your questions, the Open Fire set is good value but better value if you can find someone to split the contents with.

Do not buy the v.3 bundle, those lists are painfully bland and unimpressive. If you want to buy a book, go with Grey Wolf ahead of the v.3 bundle.

I note that you're interested in an armoured list so I'll tailor my advice to suit that. You can make a fun and effective force on the cheap, just go with two boxes of PSC StuGs and one box of PSC Tigers. It'll make the following list. (StuG Batterie from Grey Wolf) It's 1780 points which is the new Late War standard. 1500 points is generally the Mid-War points level.

-1 Command StuG w/ tank escorts
-3 StuGs w/ tank escorts
-3 StuGs w/ tank escorts
-4 Tigers (Upgrade one to Otto Carius/one to Kerchner) <-These are special characters with some interesting rules that give the list some tactical flexibility.

You'll have some spare StuGs left over but that's no loss. You can make those into StuH assault guns and sub them into the list if you want more anti-infantry punch. The StuG/Tigers can be used to make the core of almost all German armoured lists. It's got none of the more expensive (cash-wise) toys but it'll face off against heavy tank lists, medium tank lists, mechanised lists, infantry lists and with the Tigers, it can even go up against dug-in veteran infantry toting bazookas.

It'll be quick to paint so your army will be on the field that bit faster. Once you played with it and gotten a feel for the game, you can start messing around with recon, AA, infantry, artillery and all the other bits of kit.

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
Thanks for all the great replies guys! I'm really pleased to see some cheaper alternatives to what looks pretty expensive for single tanks by FOW.
Would it be worth it for me to buy Open Fire as a starter army to add to some Tiger 1s? It would give me the rulebook aswell as StuGs and infantry. If I add Tigers, some AA and artillery could that bring me up to 1500pts? That seems to be a pretty common points level. And I can get the books for the germans on easy army right?, or would it be better to buy the v3 bundle? I'm asking a lot of questions, but I just want to be clear, thanks.

Personally, I think Open Fire is a great buy for a new player. You get the rule book, 2 sets of dice (Axis and Allies), cardboard terrain, objective markers, and the Armies are solid. For a player starting Germany you get Grenadiers, stuGs, and pak40s- 3 Workhorses in the German Arsenal in all three theaters, mid and late war. An Allied player gets Units that technically work together post Normandy, but they're really generic too. You get American Paratroopers (fearless/veterans), shermans V, and fireflies. With this stuff you could field a British, or American army, and use them in France or even North Africa and Italy. I don't play Russians or have books but if they can field M4A1 Shermans you could even use the Shermans from Open Fire is a Russian Army! Cause Sherman V was Britian's version of the M4A1 Sherman.

The point cost of what you get is roughly 800 pts (each army), so you have plenty of room to add specialized stuff and heavy hitters.

I agree with Phydox.

My buddy and I both purchased an Open Fire Boxset. He got the Germans, I got the Americans.
With about 100 bucks more Im going to have a VERY nice army.

What would a fair price be to sell off the British contents of the Open Fire boxset if I wanted to keep the rulebook, terrain, and the German dice? I'm thinking about buying the set and wanted to know what a fair offer is on the other half.

Also, is infantry required to make a list in this game if you want to capture objectives and the like? I keep seeing lists with no infantry elements and I was wondering how those win. Haven't played any games yet and am still figuring out if I want to get into this game or not.

Most people are telling me if I want to run a good German armored list I need the Grey Wolf book, then just buy a truckload of cheap tanks from plastic soldier company, and I'll be all set. Was hoping to use panzer IV's, tigers, and stugs, as I love the look of those kinds of tanks. Is that something that's fairly viable? I don't need an uber tourney list, just something that I'll have a shot at winning with against the average guy.

You can win without infantry, but you need big platoons of tanks for assaults (at least 5+)

Grey wolf has some great German tank lists, and you can go crazy with panzer 4's StuG's etc, but don't discount blood guts and glory or the PDF 'panzer to the meuse'

Bridge by Bridge has good armored list, and don't forget about the free briefings posted on the FoW website. "Panzers to the Meuse" just went official and has some great tank lists for Panzer IVs.