Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

As the title suggests, I was wondering what would happen if a Helbrute contracted the Obliterator virus?

Following advice, I have split the rules into two different vehicles: the Helbliterator (shooty variant) and the Helscourge (melee variant).

I would have called it the Helmutilator, but I thought that sounded dumb.

The results are below:

Unit FA SA RA WS BS S I A HP Pts
Helbliterator/Helscourge 12 12 10 4 4 6 4 3 3 185

Unit: 1 Helbliterator/Helscourge (Elite Choice)
Equipment: Mutable Weaponry, Smoke Launchers

Special Rules:

Crazed: As per Helbrute in Codex: Chaos Space Marines.

Mutable Weaponry: Each Chaos turn, the Helbliterator/Helscourge may choose one of the following weapons for each arm:

However, each turn, the Helbliterator/Helscourge MUST change both of it's weapons from the previous turn.

Helbliterator: Multi melta, twin linked lascannon, twin linked heavy bolter, twin linked autocannon, plasma cannon,
Missile launcher,

Helscourge: Power fist (strikes at I), Lightning claw, Chainfist (Unwieldy), Thunder Hammer (Unwieldy), Power Scourge

NOTE: I made the chainfist and thunder hammer unwieldy to give the Chaos player a choice between the power fist, chain fist and thunder hammer.

If you are going for a opposing dreadnought, do you take the power fist or go for the extra penetration of the chainfist but risk striking last?

The same choice applies with the power fist vs thunder hammer when fighting monstrous creatures.

Power Scourge :

Type Strength AP Special
Melee User 3 Enemies in base contact lose one attack to a minimum of 1 (not cumalative if 2 power scourges are taken)

Daemon, 5+ invulnerable save, It will not die (all as per chaos codex)

Options:

The Helbliterator may take one Mark of Chaos at the costs below.

Mark of Nurgle: +1 Hull Point - +30pts

A Helbliterator/Helscourge with the Mark of Nurgle counts as being equipped with Blight Grenades.

Mark of Tzeentch: Invulnerable save becomes 4++ - +30pts

Heavy Bolters and Autocannons used by a Helbliterator with the Mark of Tzeentch count as having Inferno Bolts.

Mark of Slaanesh: +1 Initiative, Fleet - + 20pts

Add the Blastmaster to the list of weapons that a Helbliterator with the Mark of Slaanesh can use in its right arm.

Mark of Khorne: Rage, Furious Charge - + 20pts

The Helbliterator/Helscourge may take any of the Chaos Vehicle upgrades from Codex Chaos Space Marines, with the exception of Dozer Blades obviously!


This is only a first draught of the rules which I made up as the idea entered my fevered brain and had to be put down in print!

What do you think? Too expensive, too cheap, too overpowered, not powerful enough?

Opinions please!

Balance wise, I don't see any immediate issues, although it should probably have the Crazed rule as per normal Brutes. Same with the not being able to choose the same weapon twice, as per Obliterators/Mutilators.

Though in all honesty, the biggest problem I see is figuring out just what a player would do with it. It kinda is stuck in between being shooty shooty and fighty fighty, creating a hybrid that can do okay at both, but is outperformed by more dedicated units to a particular role. It wouldn't be unbalanced as it is, but to be frank, I wouldn't take it because there's better uses for the slot than this guy can offer.

I see that you were trying to create a happy medium, but hybrids tend to be poor choices. Let me put it this way, would you field a codex Dreadnought with a lascannon and a powerfist if you had more options? You got something that'll be half-effective, since it won't be doing all it can on most turns. What I would do is break this Helbliterator into ranged and melee-focused variants, the Helbliterator who has two morphing guns and the Helmutilator who can take the two morphing melee weapons.

Hell brutes are the results of mad doctors putting an oblit and a mutilator together and chopping off the extra arms

I think it looks fun to play with and would like to try it, but why is it Heavy support when normal helbrutes are Elites and the unwieldy rule is ignored by walkers so there is no point in giving it to sme of the weapons.

Unwieldy does not have an effect on walkers or monstrous creatures, and the power scourge already exists in the csm codex.

Does it? I didn't realise.

OK use the rules for the power scourge from Codex CSM to avoid confusion.

I don't know what those rules are, so would you mind telling me?

As for the Unwieldy part of the rules, I added it to give the CSM player advantages and disadvantages to certain weapons in different situations, i.e. when against walkers or monstrous creatures.

If Unwieldy does not affect walkers or MC's, do you have any ideas for giving the CSM player a genuine choice between weapons as opposed to always using the chainfist or thunderhammer?

rohansoldier wrote:
Does it? I didn't realise.

OK use the rules for the power scourge from Codex CSM to avoid confusion.

I don't know what those rules are, so would you mind telling me?

As for the Unwieldy part of the rules, I added it to give the CSM player advantages and disadvantages to certain weapons in different situations, i.e. when against walkers or monstrous creatures.

If Unwieldy does not affect walkers or MC's, do you have any ideas for giving the CSM player a genuine choice between weapons as opposed to always using the chainfist or thunderhammer?

Power Scourge is S8 AP2 flail, which reduces an enemy's WS by D3, I think. It's a pretty good weapon, though only able to be taken on two models.

There's always 3 options:
1 - Anti-horde, usually adds attacks, like the Blood Talon dreadnought, or takes away attacks, like Lasher Tendrils, or makes the model hit first, like Lash Whips or Whip Coils
2- Anti-TEQ - basically a normal DCCW. Normal attacks, AP2 at S or Sx2
3- Anti-vehicle/building - Something with armorbane and high S but few attacks.

should it have the "daemon forge" special rule.

Let Khorne reroll charge distances.

Give it 2 mutable weapons, that must be muted to the SAME weapon.

So it gets 2 twin linked lascannons, 2 regular multimeltas etc. In combat it could get 2 lightning claws, or 2 chainfists. If it loses a weapon, from a penetrating hit it can only morph one.

Give the missile launcher flakk missiles, otherwise why are you going to ever pick missile launcher.

Add in Heavy flamer to the list of ranged weapons.