Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Just as a heads up, local meta is only one flyer per list, so not too worried about anti-air with a Helldrake in my list.

HQ
Typhus - 230
DP - Tzeentch, Wings, Armor, Black Mace, Gift of Mutation - 275

Troops
7 Plague Marines - Flamer, Plasma Gun, VoLW - 195
7 Plague Marines - Flamer, Plasma Gun, VoLW - 195
7 Plague Marines - Flamer, Plasma Gun, VoLW - 195
34 Plague Zombies - 146

FA
Helldrake - Baleflamer - 170

HS
3 Obliterators - Nurgle, VoLW - 237
3 Obliterators - Nurgle, VoLW - 237
5 Havocs - 4 ACs, VoLW - 120

2k exactly


I pretty much think I am going to rely on the other guy coming to me. I'll have great control of my deployment zone and the midfield, and I'll leave my Helldrake and DP to harass his deployment zone. Obliterators and Havocs are there to blow up ranged targets and hopefully make the other guy foot-slog to me. Typhus gets a big ol' meat shield with the zombies and plague marines camp objectives and do what they do best, don't die lol. Anyways, let me know if you see any holes that I need to plug, thanks in advance for the advice.

I would drop some Zombies to give your Plague marines dual plasma. Give your Champs Combi-Flamers if you want them, but make sure to give them Melta bombs.

To be honest, I would even consider dropping the Zombies all together... their best job is doing the same thing your Plague Marines are doing... sitting in cover and not dying. I would also consider gitching your DP and turning him into Nurgle Terminators and have /those/ sit with Typhus, or even DS them in. Just don't use them as a suicide unit.

I always wanted some Nurgle marines. Loved the icky big belly guts bursting out stuff.

 BlkTom wrote:
I would drop some Zombies to give your Plague marines dual plasma. Give your Champs Combi-Flamers if you want them, but make sure to give them Melta bombs.

To be honest, I would even consider dropping the Zombies all together... their best job is doing the same thing your Plague Marines are doing... sitting in cover and not dying. I would also consider gitching your DP and turning him into Nurgle Terminators and have /those/ sit with Typhus, or even DS them in. Just don't use them as a suicide unit.

I had always thought of the zombies as the cheapest meat shield available for Typhus, I like to keep Typhus in a place where I can cast his powers as often as possible, sometimes this is in the open so I give him a lot of bodies as protection. I do run double plasma a lot, local meta was nearly 100% SM but lately have started to see some Nids, Orks, and DE, so I thought the flamers might be worth it, do you still think I should go double plasma? Lastly, nearly everyone I play tells me to trade my DP for some termies but I just like him too much. Honestly he doesn't die that often, people are more worried about killing the heldrake, and once in H2H he just wrecks everything. With the black mace he is just stupid OP right now, and it's fun to swoop in on someone T2 and crush one of their elite units before that unit ever swings a weapon. At some point I am sure he'll get nerfed but for now the drawbacks don't outweigh the fun I have with him.

A flamer tends to be a one-shot-per-game weapon... if you want one, I would give the champion a combi-flamer. I think the nature of plague marines makes the double plasma superior.
As a matter of fact - other than you have the perfect number- I would be tempted to switch it from 3 x7 into 4 x 5 man units.

My other thought is switch your DP to Nurgle sure you lose the +1 to invulnerable save but +1 T makes up for it. Also the Nurgle spells can cause more damage to units. If you want, just switch it to Biomancy and go for a CC killing machine.

DAaddict wrote:
A flamer tends to be a one-shot-per-game weapon... if you want one, I would give the champion a combi-flamer. I think the nature of plague marines makes the double plasma superior.
As a matter of fact - other than you have the perfect number- I would be tempted to switch it from 3 x7 into 4 x 5 man units.

My other thought is switch your DP to Nurgle sure you lose the +1 to invulnerable save but +1 T makes up for it. Also the Nurgle spells can cause more damage to units. If you want, just switch it to Biomancy and go for a CC killing machine.

Daemon marks are different from regular marks. Dp of tzeentch rerolls failed saving throw results of a 1. nurgle makes him unable to sweeping advance

Dalymiddleboro wrote:

DAaddict wrote:
A flamer tends to be a one-shot-per-game weapon... if you want one, I would give the champion a combi-flamer. I think the nature of plague marines makes the double plasma superior.
As a matter of fact - other than you have the perfect number- I would be tempted to switch it from 3 x7 into 4 x 5 man units.

My other thought is switch your DP to Nurgle sure you lose the +1 to invulnerable save but +1 T makes up for it. Also the Nurgle spells can cause more damage to units. If you want, just switch it to Biomancy and go for a CC killing machine.

Daemon marks are different from regular marks. Dp of tzeentch rerolls failed saving throw results of a 1. nurgle makes him unable to sweeping advance

Is this a retcon to CSM book? I agree if we are talking a Chaos Deamon DP but CSM you go by CSM marks.

CSM daemons are no longer marked, they become daemons of "X" and get their own specials rules. Not having a daemons book, I would assume they are the same as the daemons book.

DA is right, you go by the codex of the book your using for the unit. The DPs in the CSM book are thus different than the DPs in the Demon book. In that book, for example, I believe they are still heavy slots. I also do not own the book.

ChaosSmaug wrote:

 BlkTom wrote:
I would drop some Zombies to give your Plague marines dual plasma. Give your Champs Combi-Flamers if you want them, but make sure to give them Melta bombs.

To be honest, I would even consider dropping the Zombies all together... their best job is doing the same thing your Plague Marines are doing... sitting in cover and not dying. I would also consider gitching your DP and turning him into Nurgle Terminators and have /those/ sit with Typhus, or even DS them in. Just don't use them as a suicide unit.

I had always thought of the zombies as the cheapest meat shield available for Typhus, I like to keep Typhus in a place where I can cast his powers as often as possible, sometimes this is in the open so I give him a lot of bodies as protection. I do run double plasma a lot, local meta was nearly 100% SM but lately have started to see some Nids, Orks, and DE, so I thought the flamers might be worth it, do you still think I should go double plasma? Lastly, nearly everyone I play tells me to trade my DP for some termies but I just like him too much. Honestly he doesn't die that often, people are more worried about killing the heldrake, and once in H2H he just wrecks everything. With the black mace he is just stupid OP right now, and it's fun to swoop in on someone T2 and crush one of their elite units before that unit ever swings a weapon. At some point I am sure he'll get nerfed but for now the drawbacks don't outweigh the fun I have with him.

If I was an opponent of yours and I run a ADL, I would intercept fire on the first one that comes in...doesn't matter which it is unless they come in at the same time, then I have to choose.... probably the heldrake because I have a better chance of killing it, specially if I have a Icarus. Other than that, that is the only reason why he would live longer IMO. Is he good? Yes, he is very good and it is a very nasty combo with the Black Mace. But your paying for it, 505pts for two figs. Your on the ground as soon as you go into melee, that give them a turn to shoot him at normal BS... I dunno, at 2k points, your list feels like a 1500pt list.

Rapid Fire weapons are dangerous for anyone to charge into. Lucky for you, not only do you have bolters, but you have 2 CCWs and Poison on top of that, making you a hard nut in CC. You will not be fun no matter what...and did I mention blight nades? You realize that defensive nades give you Stealth from the shooter, I think out to 8"...giving your Plague marines a even better cover save. If you really want a Flamer, get a combi-flamer for your champ. Your still better off with dual plasma. And I have to agree... dropping a guy or two from your squads so you can have four 5-man squads is pretty awesome.

As for the Zombies, well, at least they are Fearless. Even if that is their purpose, shaving points off of them to make your other units better is still the better choice.

Thanks for the advice. I don't think I did a good job of explaining myself about the mark on the DP. They are no longer marked in the Chaos Space Marine book(which I have), instead they turn into a "daemon of X". I believe that is similar to how it's works in the Chaos Daemons book (which I don't have).

As for the rest of the advice, I can probably drop the fluff for more competitive games and take more squads and drop some zombies to kit out the PMs better too. I know that the DP is super expensive and I cry a little inside everytime he does in a game. But I really enjoy playing with him and no one in my local meta has an ADL because of the one flyer rule. I get away with an extra FMC since he is in the HQ slot. So I think I might run two lists, one with a DP and one without.

What would you replace him with, another heldrake and something else?

Helldrake or a Librarian with Biomancy... Endurance with some MoN terminators or Obliterators... would be a real pain and make a great alternative to plague zombies for Typhus' personal guard.

Yeah, a second Heldrake will not hurt. I would throw like 2-3 more guys in the Havoc squad and give them a IoV, maybe even MoN to keep them fluffy. Maybe a second Sorc at Mastery 3 in Terminator armor with MoN and 1 roll on the Nurgle list and 2 on Biomancy. Promancy might be a cool twist, specially if you luck out and get the fire shield power.... if anything, would be a twist. Throw him in a PM squad. Terminators would be nice, but you would have to drop something else at that point. Heck, you will probably be lucky to afford Terminator armor on the second Sorc.

I am currently building a nurgle/Death guard army myself, and to be honest, I don't really understand the huge point sink of Typhus with a lack of zombies. Yes he is cool, but there isn't much point from what I have seen in my research and battle reports I have watched if you have Typhus and not at least two squads of zombies. A chaos lord is much cheaper, and you can just have 30 cultists instead.

Typhus is still a spellcaster and quite awesome... You can either do Typhus with the zombie hoard or Typhus with a Terminator guard... The purpose is to avoid Typhus being swamped by the enemy.... Given that, the 35 Zombies are fine... I will agree though that another use would be a couple of small zombie units to objective camp... They are not going to win anything but if you can keep the enemy busy with other stuff, the zombies should be able to hold anything.

Yeah, I guess the way to look at it is Typhus is now worth 376pts, the DP is 275pts. Is that really worth the 651 points? Typhus is giving Zombies, but all your using him for is his psyker powers. Any Sorc can do that for you... he is no Eldrad, for example.

I would say, with a character like him, for the points spent, you need to make better use of every thing he gives you. March those zombies up and get him in close combat so he can use Manreaper and the Destroyer Hive.

The FAQ says you can use the Destroyer Hive in a challenge and hit guys outside of the challenge, at his Init 5 (once per game). This makes Typhus a heck of a MEQ/HQ killer, and his weapon is AP 2 as well. The Zombies would get FNP saves and are cheap, MoN Terminaters would get a high T and Invuln saves, plague marines would get a high T and FNP saves. Since each target gets hit x number of times by x number of figs under the large blast marker, Zombies are probably the best way to go, because you don't care if you lose them.

I would truely look at 4 or 5 terminator guard instead of zombies... they are going to do nothing but die and not contribute anything but their 35 wounds...VotLW, and MoN... for 162 all with power axes for 4... that is going to be 8 or 12 S5 attacks with AP2 instead of 3 T and 35 to 69 S3 attacks on T3 creatures with FNP... Sure they will last but an opponent could easily feed another squad into the fight to force a challenge by Typhus then we are talking 1 in 18 chance he turns into a mewling chaos spawn every round of combat...

Yeah take a chaos lord with mark of nurgle, then you can keep your plague marines as troop choices, ditch Typhus/zombies, and then this list would look better in my eyes, then you will also have extra points to upgrade some more stuff.

Edit: here is my list, makes full use of Typhus, and although it has two flyers, you could always take those points in to some termies.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/519509.page

Ok, I think I've made a bit more competitive list. I still kept the DP just cause I like playing with him. When I move out into tournaments I'll be adjusting the list slightly to drop the DP and put in a second Heldrake; but in my local games I can only take the one Heldrake, local house rules.. So as it stands now, here is what I have.

HQs

Typhus - 230
Daemon Prince - Tzeentch, wings, armor, The Black Mace - 265

Troops

5 Plague Marines - 2 x Melta, VoLW, Rhino with combi-melta - 190
5 Plague Marines - 2 x Plasma, VoLW - 155
5 Plague Marines - 2 x Plasma, VoLW - 155
5 Plague Marines - 2 x Plasma, VoLW - 155

Elites

5 Terminators - MoN, 2 x lightning claws, 3 x power fists, 4 combi-plasmas, heavy flamer, VoLW - 264

Fast Attack

Heldrake - Baleflamer - 170

Heavy Support

3 Obliterators - MoN, VoLW - 237
5 Havocs - MoN, 4 x Autocannons, VoLW - 135

This brings my total to 1,956 so I have 44 points to play with, and don't know what I should do with them.

On this list Typhus goes with the Termies and either deep strikes in or if possible walks up the field, casting everything he can every turn 48 inch range on Gift of Mutation is awesome! I've not really played with terminators before and don't know how I should kit them out, so any advice on that would be appreciated.

A more competitive list for tournaments would see me drop the DP for another Heldrake and use the extra 95 points to turn the group of havocs into another 3 man group of obliterators. Thanks in advance for all the feedback.

I don't have my codex on hand; but I'm sure you had to give up the chance of the third and fourth combi-plasma in exchange for the second pair of lightning claws and heavy flamer. Otherwise the list looks great

Yeah, each terminator has either a lightning claw or a power fist and 4 have combi-plasmas and one has a heavy flamer. For the three extra points to get a claw over a power sword I thought the re-rolls was worth it.

Your points for your Terminators are wrong. I will also point out the Terminator Champion has a different equipment list which is, unfortunately, more expensive. The Terminator Champion's equipment list is on page 91.

The equipment list says 'Any Chaos Terminator', but the Champion is not a 'Chaos Terminator', he is a 'Terminator Champion' because he is a Character.

This does allow you to do stuff like Double Chain Fist/Power Fist or even Double Power weapon that the normal options don't allow (except for dual Lightining Claws). All champs have a separate equipment list that only they can use. Most of these are listed on page 91, but there are items (melta bombs) that are listed separate.