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depending on fluff you read the CSM's are either running out of troops and using demons and traitor guard in their place or have so many astartes that they can throw them away like loose change(Dark Creed where Erebus doesn't care about losing 8,000 word bearers). I've heard stuff about them not being able to use corrupt gene seed and slowly dwindling away but also stuff about them using cloning, so does the corruption and cloning just cancel each other out?

For Space Marine-creation take a note from the Pretender. The Space Marines are created with generally positive reinforcement. While the CSMs are created to be psychotic so negative reinforcement is in effect. I mean they would have to sooner or later have to defeat their master that's how Chaos is. Live or die. Survival of the fittest.

Iron warriors used the Daemonculaba, the most grimdark recruitment method ever.
Lexicanum link
1d4chan link, it's funnier

Other legions use cloning methods, elevating traitors to Astartes, kidnapping children, Loyalist Space Marines defecting to the EoT, and many more.

 Sir Samuel Buca wrote:
Iron warriors used the Daemonculaba, the most grimdark recruitment method ever.
Lexicanum link
1d4chan link, it's funnier

Other legions use cloning methods, elevating traitors to Astartes, kidnapping children, Loyalist Space Marines defecting to the EoT, and many more.

Welp, Im not sleeping tonight.

Chaos Space Marines have a range of replenishment options.

If only recently turned renegade, they can continue on much like they had before. The traitor legions can do this too, provided their gene-seed hasn't decayed too much. There's also the option of using stolen gene-seed from loyalist chapters.

Then there's the more esoteric solutions like cloning, daemonic possession, resurrection etc. Or simply taking in renegades.

All that said i imagine casualty replacement is an issue for the older warbands and the traitor legions as their gene-seed is frequently going to be unusable thanks to excessive mutation/decay.

Plague Marines for example don't get made through a dead Plague Marine's gene-seed being implanted into a new initiate. rather it's a ritual performed on an existing marine. So the number of original death guard is diminishing. By contrast the Night Lords have quite pure gene-seed and so can recruit much like they always have.

The Heresy is one thing, but in the years to follow i would bet that the legions have become increasingly careful to replenish their numbers or face extinction. A ready source is off course loyalist chapters but in the case of the Blood gorgons ( Blood Gorgons (Novel) by Henry Zou
Flesh and Iron (Novel) by Henry Zou
Emperor's Mercy (Novel) by Henry Zou ) Are recruiting in much the same way as many loyalist chapters; securing a supply planet for aspirants and then implanting them if found worthy.

I imagine that, if the Traitor Legions are creating new Astartes, they prefer to recruit from the mutated serfs that have been with their Legions from the beginning. That way the new Traitor Legionnaires are still old men who remember the Great Crusade and the Horus Heresy, and aren't just thin-blooded renegades.

The answer is given by GW:

New Chaos Space Marines are recruited from the most dangerous heretics that are drawn into the Eye by the lure of Chaos, or else selected from the masses of slave-warriors who fight eternal battles for the amusement of the Dark Gods. The implantation of recruits is a brutal affair, quite unlike the carefully measured program of development used by Imperial Space Marines. Whether the candidate lives or dies is left to the will of the Chaos Gods. Initiation rites are similarly debased and savage, ensuring that only the toughest initiates ever survive.

p. 19, 2nd edition Chaos Codex

As Iracundus said, though specific groups probably recruit from their more favored servants. (Like Khorne recruiting from powerful gladiators and the like)

So are they running low like the soul hunter series would suggest, or is Fabius creating entire legions


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I mean really why are they even bothering to steal gene seed if they can clone someone a thousand times.

The different legions, except possibly the 1k sons, do expand their numbers. Either by taking in Renegades or creating their own new marines.

The traitors didn't suddenly lose their ability to replace their losses when they left, they had the equipment necessary with them. Plus Chaos is handy for filling in the gaps.


They steal geneseed because Chaos taints everything, untainted geneseed is valuable for fixing undesirable mutations. Chaos can be helpful but it can also be annoying, its not really on your side. Its more like a powerful force you don't have full control over.

I've always wondered about the Thousand Sons. They must be perilously close to extinction after 10,000 years.

Not really, they can catch the souls of any Rubric marines that are "killed" and put them in new armor.

They arn't growing, but they arn't exactly shrinking either.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Not really, they can catch the souls of any Rubric marines that are "killed" and put them in new armor.

They arn't growing, but they arn't exactly shrinking either.

Ahhh. I hadn't heard this explanation before. Thanks!