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I'm still working on reading the Tau Codex but from what I understood in the last codex is that the main tau caste doesn't really like Farsight and vice versa, but in the new book it seems they still praise him to a degree and new model he has the Tau Caste symbol thing on his chest (Sorry new to Tau and still getting all the names down).


In this new codex lore if lets say, Shadowsun or any other Caste and Farsight meet, would they fight each other or just kinda ignore each other.

1.) Caste is not what you think it is. There is no main caste and Shadowsun isn't a caste either.
2.) Farsight has been a hero when fighting for the Tau Empire. Even as a renegade, he is still secretly admired by some members of the Fire Caste. And he secretly gets access to modern Tau equipment, which officially he shouldn't have.
3.) Shadowsun would certainly fight Farsight if not stopped by an ethereal. But not every Fire Caste meber would.
4.) The symbol for the Tau Sept (homeplanet of the Tau) and the Fire caste are the same. Farsight wears the sign of his caste, not the sign of the Tau Sept.
5.) Generally Farsight is still a renegade, but a bit less so than in the last Codex.

Ah, Sept was the word I was thinking of. My Bad

And thank you, I'm thinking about for the fluff behind my sept is to hunt down Farsight. ( I commonly play an overzealous Farsight player)

Basically everything that Kroot said.

with this adds:

6) Even if he is Renegade Farsight is helping other Tau forces from time to time.
7) He is secretly admired in the Empire, and anybody who show that in public get a visit from Ethereals and some of them are never heard of again.
8) After 3'rd phase expansion Shadowsun is maybe on a secret mission to bring Farsight back to T'au, in chains or coffin.

Is "sept" used to describe a planet strictly or rather a jurisdiction more generally?

Sept is used to describe a system of planets with that planet being capital.

Like Cadian sector for example, it is not just planet Cadia in it. Cadai is capital planet while all other planets are part of it's sector.

Tau Septs work on the same principle.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking -- thanks!

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:

7) He is secretly admired in the Empire, and anybody who show that in public get a visit from Ethereals and some of them are never heard of again.

The way i read this in the codex was that people in the Empire, especially his home sept of Viorla still respect and admire him openly. The Ethereals keep the truth of him being a renegade secret as to not taint the image of one of the empires greatest heroes and have sent shadowsun to get him as a secret mission .

 end wrote:
The way i read this in the codex was that people in the Empire, especially his home sept of Viorla still respect and admire him openly. The Ethereals keep the truth of him being a renegade secret as to not taint the image of one of the empires greatest heroes and have sent shadowsun to get him as a secret mission .

Not the case I'm afraid. Remember the part about Shadowsun very publicly blowing Farsight's statue apart as Aun'va denounces him, to kick off the speech that starts the 3rd Sphere Expansion.
The last part's quite feasible, though. Shadowsun's supposed to be helping expand the Tau Empire as her primary mission - if she has a secret mission to pursue Farsight as well, that's likely to be kept under wraps.

The thing with reverence of Farsight is, it's been a good 300 years since he was around. That's quite a few Tau lifetimes - most of the goodwill towards him has had plenty of opportunity to be ebbed away.

Is he not a "living legend"? I mean, George Washington is arguably more venerated today than during his life time ...

It seems that some Tau see him as a bit of a folk hero, but what I inferred was that most Tau aren't aware that he has been sighted. I think he is indeed thought of more of a legendary figure by most, rather than them actually believing him to be still alive. As I see it the only ones who know that he could still be alive are the Ethereals and some very high ranking members of other castes (e.g. Shadowsun). Even then the Ethereals don't know that it's the same Farsight, all they know is that someone wearing his armour is out there. And of course the book isn't telling...

When Shadowsun destroyed his statue, I don't think she was saying to the Tau Empire "we're going to get Farsight." I think it was more to symbolise the start of her way of doing things. Most Tau probably assumed he was dead by this point anyway, so maybe the idea of her public destruction of the statue was to not-s-subtly imply that they should stop living in the past and get ready for the Third Sphere Expansion. Allowing her to do this may also have been intended by the Ethereals to be a way of planting in the minds of the citizens the idea of Farsight as a failure to be forgotten. If she is going after him, it seems it's not something the Ethereals want everyone knowing about.

 Manchu wrote:
Is "sept" used to describe a planet strictly or rather a jurisdiction more generally?

Sept is the population of one established sept planet plus its fleet/army plus all its colonies, until some are big enough to form their own (new) sept. It is a social entity, not a group of planets.

But the jurisdiction often spans multiple planets, right?

From the codex:

"Septs are the most important feature of the Tau Empire. Each is named after their Prime or sept world and can include any number of additionally colonised planets, moons or artificial bases under one central control. The older septs, those of the First Sphere Expansion, are the most densely populated.

The sept from which a Tau hails forms a large part of his identity, as the culture of each sept is subtly unique. All castes are found in each sept, although the relative proportions of the various castes can vary greatly."

So in the end it's a same thing like Imperial star sector. It's not like that every sector in the Imperium has same traditions and customs, they all differ to and Imperial sector is not social entity but administrative area. Same goes for Tau Sept, if it was only one planet with it's unique culture then it would be social entity, but because it consists from various planets, each can have it's own variation from the capital it is administrative area.

To the best of my knowledge, I think the Tau still respect him for his past deeds FOR the Empire but his seperation has cast a shadow over them. He is by no means forgotten and I think that if he were to repent and come back to the Tau, after a lengthy telling off by the Ethereals, he would be restored to his former status.

Personally, I think he discovered something on Arthas Moloch the Ethereals would rather he had not, something they were searching for; why else go to a deserted planet? Some ancient alien tech they hoped to turn for the Empire, but something repulsive in Shovah's view. I think when the Ethereals disturbed the item in question they awoke its guardians and that's what killed them. Farsight survived because he pulled his forces back and left well enough alone. Feeling betrayed by the Ethereals he decided to leave the Empire for good.

So yes, a renegade, but a misunderstood one.

 Dakarillion wrote:

Personally, I think he discovered something on Arthas Moloch the Ethereals would rather he had not, something they were searching for; why else go to a deserted planet? Some ancient alien tech they hoped to turn for the Empire, but something repulsive in Shovah's view. I think when the Ethereals disturbed the item in question they awoke its guardians and that's what killed them. Farsight survived because he pulled his forces back and left well enough alone. Feeling betrayed by the Ethereals he decided to leave the Empire for good.

Actually the story is explained for this planet - we went to hunt down Orks and his Ethereal council has gone to that planet because it was the safest place in that area. But some "mysterious creatures" killed all of them and run away. Farsight unable to capture this enemy that vanished into thin air took up the blade and refused to go back.

I am more interested in what were those "mysterious creatures" that slain his Ethereals? and why did they do that? They only slain them, not even a single FW was mentioned being killed.
It could be the Eldar or Chaos.

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:

 Dakarillion wrote:

Personally, I think he discovered something on Arthas Moloch the Ethereals would rather he had not, something they were searching for; why else go to a deserted planet? Some ancient alien tech they hoped to turn for the Empire, but something repulsive in Shovah's view. I think when the Ethereals disturbed the item in question they awoke its guardians and that's what killed them. Farsight survived because he pulled his forces back and left well enough alone. Feeling betrayed by the Ethereals he decided to leave the Empire for good.

Actually the story is explained for this planet - we went to hunt down Orks and his Ethereal council has gone to that planet because it was the safest place in that area. But some "mysterious creatures" killed all of them and run away. Farsight unable to capture this enemy that vanished into thin air took up the blade and refused to go back.

I am more interested in what were those "mysterious creatures" that slain his Ethereals? and why did they do that? They only slain them, not even a single FW was mentioned being killed.
It could be the Eldar or Chaos.

Actually, Farsight pursued the Orks against orders and it says nothing in any of the codexes that they went to Arthas Moloch because it was the safest place to be. Besides, you go were the orks are, not were it's safe and let them come to you, especially if YOU are doing the hunting.

If it was Eldar or Chaos they would simply have said that, plus the Chaos definately would have killed them all. No I think the Ethereals decided to investigate the ruins and simply disturbed something they shouldn't have and so got themselves killed by what ever was guarding the ruins. It makes sense if you think about it, that they were most likely echos (ghosts) of the ancient race that left the ruins behind. It never said they RAN AWAY it simply said disappeared, that could simply mean they faded away again.

Oh and it doesn't say that no others were killed, it makes a deliberate statement that all the Ethereals were killed which makes you think why? But it also goes on to say Farsight weathered the savage attacks of the unrelenting foe. This could mean anything from they bunkered down while the foe battered against their defences or it could mean several battles took place. Savage attacks to me would indicate some deaths else how would he know they were savage?

Personal theory - and please bear in mind it is just that, not gospel! - is that there's some truth to the indoctrination theory that Ethereals have a degree of control over the minds of other Tau. I believe that once Farsight was freed from nearby influence (that is, the Ethereals that were with him being killed off) he realised this and decided to forge his own path rather than be mentally shackled again. However, he couldn't just turn his back on his race in doing so.
Then again, it could be Chaotic influence (while Tau are less susceptible to Chaos they can still be misled by lies and deceit), which may also explain his longevity.

In either case - it's also entirely possible that Farsight managed to find a means/motive to kill those Ethereals himself...

 Super Ready wrote:
Personal theory - and please bear in mind it is just that, not gospel! - is that there's some truth to the indoctrination theory that Ethereals have a degree of control over the minds of other Tau. I believe that once Farsight was freed from nearby influence (that is, the Ethereals that were with him being killed off) he realised this and decided to forge his own path rather than be mentally shackled again.

I also support this theory. I think they give off a hormone or aura the Tau respond to. Like you said, he probably started thinking more for himself then ever before once they were gone.

 Super Ready wrote:
which may also explain his longevity.

I prefer the notion that others have taken up his mantle, a trusted Shas'Vre or Shas'El, taught all Shovah knows and then passing it on each time.
That or cloning. There is no real evidence that Chaos is at work among the Enclaves.
The large contact Rogue Traders and others have with them would probably have ceased long ago if the taint of Chaos was at work - IMO of course.

 Super Ready wrote:
In either case - it's also entirely possible that Farsight managed to find a means/motive to kill those Ethereals himself...

Like I said, i think the Ethereals found something, or Shovah discovered something about the ethereals, they shouldn't have. It is possible he may have killed them believing them to have betrayed the Greater Good by risking to use unknown tech or artifacts. But having killed Ethereals, he could not return or he would most definately be branded a traitor himself so reluctantly pressed on and forged his own home. It would support why he still wears the FC symbol, in remembrance of were he came from.

 Dakarillion wrote:

Actually, Farsight pursued the Orks against orders and it says nothing in any of the codexes that they went to Arthas Moloch because it was the safest place to be. Besides, you go were the orks are, not were it's safe and let them come to you, especially if YOU are doing the hunting.

He didn't go there, he sent Ethereals there because he didn't want them to get killed. And I agree - we went to hunt down and exterminate Orks that were attacking his troops, and he didn't give one damn for his orders. And that got Etherials worried so he left them on that planet and gone hunting Orks while they were discussing to sent him home.

If it was Eldar or Chaos they would simply have said that, plus the Chaos definately would have killed them all. No I think the Ethereals decided to investigate the ruins and simply disturbed something they shouldn't have and so got themselves killed by whatever was guarding the ruins. It makes sense if you think about it, that they were most likely echos (ghosts) of the ancient race that left the ruins behind. It never said they RAN AWAY it simply said disappeared, that could simply mean they faded away again.

Then why didn't that "whatever" killed Farsight and his troops? And in codex it is written that after Ethereals were killed the Farsight was chasing something when he arrived with his troops but to no avail, in the end he declared planet cleansed. And Ethereals were not investigating anything - they were debating the whole time to send Farsight home, codex says that something came and killed the mall and just disappeared. It could be the Necron too, who just teleported there, killed them, and teleported back. The biggest question in this story is why just Ethereals? Codex says that they were guarded by detachment of FW, so why were they left alive and only Ethereals killed?

Oh and it doesn't say that no others were killed, it makes a deliberate statement that all the Ethereals were killed which makes you think why? But it also goes on to say Farsight weathered the savage attacks of the unrelenting foe. This could mean anything from they bunkered down while the foe battered against their defences or it could mean several battles took place. Savage attacks to me would indicate some deaths else how would he know they were savage?

It says that Ethereals were killed while no mentioning other casualties, but it mentioned a force guarding them and force clearing the jungle with Farsight himself. So there were other troops present there, and codex never mentioned a single casualty among them. If you are right and Ethereals were hunkered down then how is that nobody saw who it was? All FW also have camera feedback and all their recording is saved, if they were attacked they could identify the enemy easily. And why nobody attacked them later when they were investigating? And when Farsight took that sword?
My theory is that some mysterious force ( Eldar, Chaos or Necrons ) killed Ethereals because they knew that Farsight would not return home but establish his own empire that would defy the Ethereals. How else would you explain that he was able to take the sword later, enver being attacked or confronted for it? It was deliberate and planned.

I don't know. I think that the events of the story in this codex reek of necrons.
Aliens on a deserted world. Attacked then disappeared. Ancient artifact...

A Temple Assassin could do it.

 Super Ready wrote:
Personal theory - and please bear in mind it is just that, not gospel! - is that there's some truth to the indoctrination theory that Ethereals have a degree of control over the minds of other Tau. I believe that once Farsight was freed from nearby influence (that is, the Ethereals that were with him being killed off) he realised this and decided to forge his own path rather than be mentally shackled again. However, he couldn't just turn his back on his race in doing so.

The new Codex took great pains to eliminate every indication of a "pheromones did it" automatism. Ethereals have authority and are reverred, but they still have to work to convince some die hard Fire Warriors. So your personal theory doesn't fit official fluff anymore.

Pheromones I'll grant you, but indoctrination as a whole isn't ruled out. There are two big hints...the Ethereal diplomatic ability being referred to as unnatural, and that race with experience in mind control now acting as advisors to them.

My money's on it being some kind of innate, not-quite-psychic ability...but realistically I know we'll never know outright.

I doubt it has to do with any kind of "power" and is actually just a matter of social engineering.

 Super Ready wrote:
My money's on it being some kind of innate, not-quite-psychic ability

It is called charisma

Although, if it is just charisma -- well, something's up: in one night, as it is told, the Ethereals changed all of Tau society. And yet they don't seem to be able to charm faithful Imperials. So it must be a kind of charisma that only works on Tau. Either that, or the history of the end of Mont'au is more mythical than factual.

Since each of the castes has come to be fully specialized in their own spheres of expertise, maybe that's what happened with the ethereals, perhaps way back when in the Mont'au times the Ethereal were a form of monastic order, seldom seen or even known about, and had perfected their skills of reasoning and diplomacy, to such a degree that they fulfilled a role in their races psyche.
And the "overnight" change in the ways of the other castes could be just a myth, it may have taken generations, but the end result was the same, unification of the Tau.

Now many many, generations later the Ethereal authority is taken as a given, even something that is desirable to almost all Tau, just as each caste needs the other to fulfill roles, the water, air , earth, and fire, need the ethereal to focus everything and bring balance.

As to subverting die hard imperial officials. Well have you ever tried to convert a fanatic to a different way of thought, some will adapt and some will not.

My suspicion to the rapid joining of the vespid falls more in the line of the Tau way of living is very similar to the vespid insect like bio structure, the only thing lacking was a way to communicate, once that was established it did not take long for them to see the gains to be made, and the similarities of the cultures..that and a bit of ethereal diplomatic mumbo jumbo.

I think the Ethereals keep up a aura of mystery to themselves even in the face of the other castes, since mystery is yet another powerful tool in governing.

Again though just my take.

Also (forgot my initial idea), I see Farsight as kinda like Gen Patton , disliked by superiors, chaffed at restrictions, but generally loved by the common people and most (if not some ) of his soldiers, a maverick that does his own thing...and is infested with mindshackle scarabs

 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
As to subverting die hard imperial officials. Well have you ever tried to convert a fanatic to a different way of thought, some will adapt and some will not.

It's more than that. Monodominance is a pretty good point. Against that, the Ethereals don't have very good arguments -- especially since it always boils down to xenos ruling humans, which is exactly what monodominance predicts happening as a result of anything less than xenocide.

although the Tau have offered to races joining freely to its empire many levels of autonomy, my take is the Tau do not see a empire of only Tau dominating the universe, so much as a empire of races with the Tau as first among equals.

Humans although have the idea that only humans can dominate the cosmos and have never shared their realm with any xenos, its built into their image of empire.

And many human planets have joined the Tau, to greater or lesser degrees, some willingly some not.

This is more a clash of ideologies than races, but hey that's why its called warhammer, not hippiehammer.