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4 Psyker henchmen in a squad could shoot out a S6 AP3 large blast. For 40 points. Does anyone pepper their henchmen squads with these guys?

I was thinking of putting some in a servitor squad: 3 Plasma Cannon Servitors, 4 psyker henchmen, 4 acolytes, and a Hell Rifle Divination Inquisitor. In a chimera. Good idea, or no?

psykers look good in theory, and I have used then as their own squads with str 10 ap 1 templates in chimeras, and in with other henchmen,

they are not usually worth it, ld 8 for the test means they dont go off all the time, one perils and the whole units dead too.

so while I wouldnt say they are not usefull,

I will say I have stopped using them,

40 points for a halfway decent chance of an S6 AP3 large blast seems good to me as that can be a lot of dead marines. 3 groups of 4 within my henchmen squads (so possibly 3 S6 AP3 large blasts) costs 120 points, which is essentially the same cost as 3 Jokaero monkeys.

one perils and the whole units dead too

Only the psykers die, no one else does.

Anyway, I don't think it is best to spend 100 points on one large blast that may or may not go off, but 120 on 3 that ignores armor on most things in the game. Seems like it could be good...

like I said, they are not worthless, but after having run them in many different squad sizes, from solo psykers to 8+,

they fail LD tests enough to be annoying,
and the enemy gets a deny the witch against it
and then you still have to not scatter off the target
and when they perils they die (the pyskers of course, I wasnt talking about other henchmen attached)

when they are in a chimera so they dont get shot to bits, and when they pass LD and the enemy doesnt DTW, then yes they do pretty good,

its just not consistant,

do yourself a favor and proxy the units and try them out for a few games, maybe the times they uber fail are worth it for the times when they are the bees knees for taking out a few guys for you,

i still like mine, but more because I made neat brains in jar models for them, they dont perform as well as other stuff I could spend the points on.

What other stuff do you spend points on which performs better? Jokearo or however it is spelled?

I enjoy running
3x warrior with PG
3x Servitor with MM
Jokearo (for extra heavy weapon + table roll)
With an xenos inquisitor with divination powers and I just take the primaris.

All in a chimera.

If I don't have the inquisitor then I don't take the servitors and instead will take something more along the lines of

3x warrior with PG
6xPsyker
Chimera
Gives me a stupidly cheap large blast as well as more plasma guns. Serves me well enough for my purposes.

well, you already have the servitors (at 10 pts a MM or H bolter they are auto take if you will have inquisitor with the squad)

but ok, 40 pts, = 4 pyskers that have ~60% chance to pass ld, and a chance to fry all the psykers on perils
then a 1/6 chance to DtW (at least)
then a ~50% to hit with scatter(very generous, will usually scatter 4")
2+ to wound, no armour save (on meq)


so that 40pts either did 0 damage, killed itself or took out a 1-3 marines depending on how they are spread out

so it is very hit or miss

40pts = 8 bolter henchmen

50% chance to hit
50% chance to wound
1/3 to make it through 3+ MEQ save

thats ~ 1 dead MEQ, but a consistant dead MEQ, against soft targets, the bolter henchmen do even better, and they have twice the wounds (more durability) then the psykers.

or, 3 death cult assasins, 45pts
on charge 12 attacks,
hit on 3's,
wound on 4's
4 dead Meq's (not to mention that the DCA have the 2nd power weapon so that they are not a niche MEQ killer, they can also kill pretty much anything with a maul/axe combo)

so thats why i am sayin its not so much a better vs worse, as a consistantly good choice vs an inconsistant horrible/good choice

Ive run them a lot, and there is a reason why the psykers stay on the shelf in competitive games/tournies and the bolter henchmen get feilded in droves

that, and dealing with MEQ's is not somthing the GK army has any issues with, so taking a specialist unit just for the AP 3 when your whole army has ap3 weapon, and rocks MEQ's in CC just is a bit more redundancy then is needed most of the time.

I ran some hopefully correct math on the psyker henchmen. They have about a 72% chance of passing their psychic test. If I have two squads with psykers in them, the chance of at least one blast going off is 92%. If all I really have to worry about is a deny the witch roll after that, which has a 1/6 chance of stopping the psychic attack, I feel like 80 points for possibly two S6 AP3 large blasts is a good deal.

Edit
Easysauce, the thing you are missing is psyker henchmen have 36 inch range, more than the bolters, and unlike the 8 bolter guys, you only need one fire point in order to use them. And of course, unlike the assassins, they can hit things from afar which is a huge deal...

trust me, just run them a few times, and you will see what I mean

its not that they only pass LD 60-70% of the time, its that they have to do that and DtW, and still roll to hit after,
so getting past those three rolls just to cause hits,
is frustrating sometimes when you need consistant performance

2 - 2.78%
3 - 5.56%
4 - 8.33%
5 - 11.11%
6 - 13.89%
7 - 16.67%
8 - 13.89%
9 - 11.11%
10 - 8.33%
11 - 5.56%
12 - 2.78%

=27.78% chance to roll over 8

so its like having to hit twice, once at bs ~4, then again at bs3 with scatter,
so 72.22% to hit(with a ~5.5% chance to die), then another ~50% to hit for scatter at bs 3
and your opponent gets the extra DtW save,

im not sayin they are bad, but they are inconsistant, you have to pass 3 rolls just to get to the chance to wound,
as opposed to just hitting,

this is all in ideal conditions too, any army with anti psyker stuff (other pyskers, eldar, ect) will make them less effective

so again, its not a bad choice, its just one thats either fail or win, and very random

keep in mind,

this is all based off my experiance having done what you intend to do, I know the range and all, that is different

it looks good on paper, it CAN perform well, it CAN perform absolutely horribly, its random (even more so then normal lol)

the bolters are consistant (and with 2x the durability, remember we are taking up a troops slot, if you are not running coteaz, might be less of an issue)

but I have played many games with psyker henchies and game after game they always have a phase or two where they dont get to shoot at all,

I have a quad of 6 pskery henchmen that i am going to roll in a chimera with 6 warrior accolytes (probably give 3 of them flamers). The squad is more of a novelty in my lists, sometimes it hits big, sometmes it dies horribly. I like 6 of them though for a str 8 ap1 large blast.

Psyker henchmen are one of the most contested things in all of 40k. Some people love them, some people hate them. Everyone has their own ides of what the "correct" number of them to run is. They are the epitome of "High Risk, High Reward"


I use Squad of 8 psykers for the S10 AP1 shooting. 1 acolyte for perils protection, Rhino for mobility and protection.

The most common number of psykers are:
1 psyker in multiple units for massed S3 blasts. More effective than you might think. Massed wounds are good against cover saves and horde units.
4 Psykers for S6 AP3. Kills MEQ
5 Psykers for S7 AP2. Kills TEQ
6 Psykers for S8 AP1. ID against T4, Ignores some FNP
8 Psykers for S10 AP1. ID against T5. Better performance against Tanks.



I also take a lot of other steps to try and mitigate their accuracy problems. I use a large number of Blast weapons in my lists, so I usually try to include a lot of Servo Skulls. BS3 Blast weapons in range of a Skull basically don't scatter. (Maximum scatter is 3" for a 2.5" radius template. Lands with no scatter 5/6 times on average) I usually try to cover objectives and other key areas with Servo Skulls to maximize their effectiveness.


Always have some other henchmen in the unit for perils protection. You will loose all of the psykers, but not the other henchmen. Saves you from giving up First Blood, a Kill point, and a scoring unit.
Additionally, having them in a tank means you will not have to make a Morale test (25% lost) when they perils as well.


Also, I try to shoot them as early as possible in the shooting phase. I try to hit high priority targets. If the psykers fire and hit, then all is good. If the shot does not deal damage, I can redirect some shooting from other units that way as needed.


Lastly, I have found that you often only need 1 or maybe 2 good hits to "make back their points", as they are not that expensive.



All that being said, there is no way to make them entirely consistent and they don't really belong in a tournament list. Their performance is very dependent on Matchups.

Against Runes of Warding, your Psykers are useless and Dead.

No effect against Flyers.


When you have the exact right number for the list you are facing, and you roll well you will be very happy with their performance.
When they are on foot, rolls perils on the top of turn 1 and run off of the board giving up first blood on your First turn, you will hate them with a passion.

Because they are so high variance, it is difficult to truly asses their damage potential. Depending on your local Metagame, you may find more or less favorable matches for them as well. That is why some people love them and other hate them.

I'd say if you're going to run them, go for at least AP2 because it's something that the GK codex doesn't really have much of at range.

 svendrex wrote:
Psyker henchmen are one of the most contested things in all of 40k. Some people love them, some people hate them. Everyone has their own ides of what the "correct" number of them to run is. They are the epitome of "High Risk, High Reward"


I use Squad of 8 psykers for the S10 AP1 shooting. 1 acolyte for perils protection, Rhino for mobility and protection.

The most common number of psykers are:
1 psyker in multiple units for massed S3 blasts. More effective than you might think. Massed wounds are good against cover saves and horde units.
4 Psykers for S6 AP3. Kills MEQ
5 Psykers for S7 AP2. Kills TEQ
6 Psykers for S8 AP1. ID against T4, Ignores some FNP
8 Psykers for S10 AP1. ID against T5. Better performance against Tanks.

I also take a lot of other steps to try and mitigate their accuracy problems. I use a large number of Blast weapons in my lists, so I usually try to include a lot of Servo Skulls. BS3 Blast weapons in range of a Skull basically don't scatter. (Maximum scatter is 3" for a 2.5" radius template. Lands with no scatter 5/6 times on average) I usually try to cover objectives and other key areas with Servo Skulls to maximize their effectiveness.

...

Wow, thanks for the analysis! I was planning on servo skulls, and also putting some of them in sqauds with divination Inquisitors...

Once you add in divination inqs and such, the price keeps getting higher for a very unreliable weapon. I think a squad or two in chimeras are great, and the exact number will vary depending on what your army needs, but 4-6 psykers has worked well for me. A great asset (and psychological threat) against many armies, and a slightly overpriced mobile scoring unit against some armies. Just don't rely on the psyker squads to save the day, or you'll be disappointed.

 Grimaldi wrote:
Once you add in divination inqs and such, the price keeps getting higher for a very unreliable weapon. I think a squad or two in chimeras are great, and the exact number will vary depending on what your army needs, but 4-6 psykers has worked well for me. A great asset (and psychological threat) against many armies, and a slightly overpriced mobile scoring unit against some armies. Just don't rely on the psyker squads to save the day, or you'll be disappointed.

I was considering adding psyker henchmen to a squad of 3 Plasma Cannon Servitors and an Inquisitor. So an unreliable extra punch added to an existing squad. I agree that it would be silly to have an inquisitor in a squad where the only real weapon is the psykers.