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So much has been bandied around in regards to making a Farsight bomb and attaching Shadowsun to make the unit No Scatter on Deep Strike, Stealth/Shrouded and JSJs 3d6. However, you can only have one Warlord and thus one Warlord trait. I don't see anything allowing for both traits to be active so you would have to choose Farsight and his no scatter or Shadowsun and her fast JSJ move. Nothing in the FAQ either.

Well you only ever have one warlord so whoever you chose as the warlord would have there auto WLT nothing really to FAQ

 Desubot wrote:
Well you only ever have one warlord so whoever you chose as the warlord would have there auto WLT nothing really to FAQ

Not saying it needs FAQing. I'm just pointing out to some who maybe didn't catch it that the accurate fast JSJ Farsight bomb can't be done do to it being done with two Warlord traits.

Ah ok sorry i miss read that.

a shame though super speedy bomb would of been cool.

You can, however, take a farsight bomb with shadowsun, equip all but one crisis bodyguard with fusion blaster/plasma/flamer and the last guy with the reroll to hits and ignore cover special systems.


Then you have 7 plasma( 6 guards and farsight) 8 Fusion shots (one of which is shadowsuns "target something else" one) as many drone shots as you like (or points allow)
All hits rerolling and ignoring cover
Stealth/Shrouded
and 6d3 wall of flame hits if you get charged before you can jump away.

Put that in your opponents backfield and watch them panic. Running them this way allows you to decide if you need an accurate deepstrike, or more mobility. Someone mentioned something about shadowsun allowing them to infiltrate, but their excuse sounded flimsy and I haven't been able to verify it.

shadowsun can't make them infiltrate, but she can make them outflank. If you want more mobility, perhaps thats the way to do it, with Shadowsun as warlord. Use Outflank to come in from a board edge, rather than needing to use Farsight's accurate drop. You could even combine this with Pathfinders or Stealthsuits and the relay beacon thing to allow the unit to come on from the enemy's board edge.

 Flinty wrote:
shadowsun can't make them infiltrate, but she can make them outflank. If you want more mobility, perhaps thats the way to do it, with Shadowsun as warlord. Use Outflank to come in from a board edge, rather than needing to use Farsight's accurate drop. You could even combine this with Pathfinders or Stealthsuits and the relay beacon thing to allow the unit to come on from the enemy's board edge.

Shadowsun has the Infiltrate USR, which would grant to any unit she is attached to the Infiltrate ability. Now if she didn't have Infiltrate but her unit did (ie: trying to attach Farstrike to a unit of Stealth Suits) then no, they couldn't Infiltrate because the last line of the Infiltrate rules say ICs without it can't join during deployment.

The outflank is a good idea, hell you don't even have to put your pathfinders out there, pick a long edge that looks advantageous and set them within six. then shadowsun and co roll on the same edge in your opponents backfield. SUPLISE! pew pew pew bang bang


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Miri wrote:

 Flinty wrote:
shadowsun can't make them infiltrate, but she can make them outflank. If you want more mobility, perhaps thats the way to do it, with Shadowsun as warlord. Use Outflank to come in from a board edge, rather than needing to use Farsight's accurate drop. You could even combine this with Pathfinders or Stealthsuits and the relay beacon thing to allow the unit to come on from the enemy's board edge.

Shadowsun has the Infiltrate USR, which would grant to any unit she is attached to the Infiltrate ability. Now if she didn't have Infiltrate but her unit did (ie: trying to attach Farstrike to a unit of Stealth Suits) then no, they couldn't Infiltrate because the last line of the Infiltrate rules say ICs without it can't join during deployment.

Ah therein lies the problem, shadowsun could steal farsights bodyguards and infiltrate if that was the case, but farsight would not be able to go along for the ride. Although you really only need farsight for the 7 pack, I suppose his one plasma shot and dawnblade aren't really crucial to the deathstar

Miri wrote:

 Flinty wrote:
shadowsun can't make them infiltrate, but she can make them outflank. If you want more mobility, perhaps thats the way to do it, with Shadowsun as warlord. Use Outflank to come in from a board edge, rather than needing to use Farsight's accurate drop. You could even combine this with Pathfinders or Stealthsuits and the relay beacon thing to allow the unit to come on from the enemy's board edge.

Shadowsun has the Infiltrate USR, which would grant to any unit she is attached to the Infiltrate ability. Now if she didn't have Infiltrate but her unit did (ie: trying to attach Farstrike to a unit of Stealth Suits) then no, they couldn't Infiltrate because the last line of the Infiltrate rules say ICs without it can't join during deployment.

You would have to not attach far sight then as he is an IC without infiltrate. But its nothing serious.

Furthermore, the way the rules are written for Infiltrate, an IC cannot bestow the ability onto his unit.

Miri wrote:

 Flinty wrote:
shadowsun can't make them infiltrate, but she can make them outflank. If you want more mobility, perhaps thats the way to do it, with Shadowsun as warlord. Use Outflank to come in from a board edge, rather than needing to use Farsight's accurate drop. You could even combine this with Pathfinders or Stealthsuits and the relay beacon thing to allow the unit to come on from the enemy's board edge.

Shadowsun has the Infiltrate USR, which would grant to any unit she is attached to the Infiltrate ability. Now if she didn't have Infiltrate but her unit did (ie: trying to attach Farstrike to a unit of Stealth Suits) then no, they couldn't Infiltrate because the last line of the Infiltrate rules say ICs without it can't join during deployment.

But its been pointed out elsewhere that deployment of infiltrators happens after all other deployment, and the only way for an IC to join a unit is to be deployed within coherency of them, or joined to them in Reserve. Hence you can never use an IC with infltrate to allow a unit to be deployed using the infiltration rules (or the other way around) because one of the units needs to be deployed before it could possibly be joined to the infiltrating element. Hence Outflanking is fine, because they can join up in Reserve, but infiltrating on the board is a no-no.

 Flinty wrote:

Miri wrote:

 Flinty wrote:
shadowsun can't make them infiltrate, but she can make them outflank. If you want more mobility, perhaps thats the way to do it, with Shadowsun as warlord. Use Outflank to come in from a board edge, rather than needing to use Farsight's accurate drop. You could even combine this with Pathfinders or Stealthsuits and the relay beacon thing to allow the unit to come on from the enemy's board edge.

Shadowsun has the Infiltrate USR, which would grant to any unit she is attached to the Infiltrate ability. Now if she didn't have Infiltrate but her unit did (ie: trying to attach Farstrike to a unit of Stealth Suits) then no, they couldn't Infiltrate because the last line of the Infiltrate rules say ICs without it can't join during deployment.

But its been pointed out elsewhere that deployment of infiltrators happens after all other deployment, and the only way for an IC to join a unit is to be deployed within coherency of them, or joined to them in Reserve. Hence you can never use an IC with infltrate to allow a unit to be deployed using the infiltration rules (or the other way around) because one of the units needs to be deployed before it could possibly be joined to the infiltrating element. Hence Outflanking is fine, because they can join up in Reserve, but infiltrating on the board is a no-no.

You just confused me. The way it has always processed in my brain is as follows. Do all of the pre-deployment rolling for traits/game type/terrain/what have you. Then take all of the ICs you intend to join to units in your list and do so, then deploy each unit one at a time. The argument that the statement "by being deployed in unit coherency to join" prevents any special rules from being transferred from IC to unit is flimsy especially since the only close mention I can see in the FAQ is for the warlord trait that confers outlfank, which clearly states he joins them during deployment, not in reserves which your stance claims is the only place ICs can join a unit outside of being deployed within 2 inches on the tabletop.

You deploy units one at a time, IC don't get joined until deployment, ie their deployment. you have to deploy all units deploying normally or put them in reserves before you deploy infiltrators.

There is no way to put an IC onto a unit and infiltrate them unless they both have infiltrate because one of them isn't being deployed correctly.

 vongoob wrote:
You just confused me. The way it has always processed in my brain is as follows. Do all of the pre-deployment rolling for traits/game type/terrain/what have you. Then take all of the ICs you intend to join to units in your list and do so, then deploy each unit one at a time.

That's how it worked last edition, after they changed the rules to allow Shrike's special rule to function.

They left that amendment out of 6th edition, so we're back to IC's being deployed into already deployed units, meaning that an IC can never bestow Infiltrate to a unit.

RAW on this is obvious; due to the rules regarding the methodology for deployment, Shadowsun would not confer Infiltrate to a unit of non-infiltrators, however, given the wording of the Infiltrate USR, "Units that contain at least one model with this special rule...", makes the RAW patently absurd.

What is the point of it, if ultimately, it can't be done due to deployment rules?

I believe there are two possible answers:

1.) The wording in the BRB is a typo, and was meant to be worded the same way as Fleet, "a unit composed entirely of models with this special rule...".

2.) That despite the wording regarding ICs and joining units at the start of game via deployment, it is just a clunky way of saying that if you want to have an IC be joined to a unit at the beginning of the game, simply deploy the two together, in unit coherency, using any special rules regarding how the unit can be deployed, in this case, Shadowsun infiltrating with a unit that isn't also Infiltrators, because she would be the "at least one model" aspect to the rule.

Hell you could use Shadosun to Infiltrate a unit of Broadsides. Potential possibilities there.

In a related note; what of ICs attached to a squad embarked in a transport, the unit and IC in question are not actually deployed, just the transport they are in, their models are sitting of to the side of the table somewhere. This is one of the things the makes me think it is option 2, and the fact that another USR, Stubborn has the exact same wording, as does Hit and Run, Tank Hunter, and Monster Hunter.

Of course, you would not be able to have another IC (Farsight) attached to Shadowsun and whatever other unit and Infiltrate, as the only restriction is on the IC with out the USR, not the unit.

To conclude, RAW is absurd in this case.

 Shas'O...Crap wrote:
What is the point of it, if ultimately, it can't be done due to deployment rules?

Because you could have something like a unit with a special character "sergeant" upgrade that has the infiltrate USR, you buy the single model with it and the entire squad gets to infiltrate.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Shas'O...Crap wrote:
What is the point of it, if ultimately, it can't be done due to deployment rules?

Because you could have something like a unit with a special character "sergeant" upgrade that has the infiltrate USR, you buy the single model with it and the entire squad gets to infiltrate.

Point taken, however, it doesn't change the fact that the RAW is absurd, especially as it seems that the BRB goes out of its way to explain the USRs and who does and doesn't confer them, especially regarding ICs, which are not upgrade characters. I am of the opinion that unless specifically stated otherwise (in the case of Fleet for example), that any USR an IC has whose only requirement is "at least one model" confers his USR to whatever unit he is with, and that the rules regarding deploying an IC with a unit in order for him/her to be a part of the unit at the start of the game is just a stupid clunky way of saying if you want IC A deployed with Unit B simply place them together in coherency, utilizing any special deployment rules the now combined IC and unit may have.

Further to your point, are there any character squad upgrades in any Codex that grant the Character Infiltrate? I do not own all of them so I am unsure. If there isn't any, I would find that hilarious, as the wording of the rule is moot as there would be no "at least one model" upgrade charcter.

Take the Scout or Outflank USRs, an IC with either of these (or both if they just have Scout) is attached to Unit A, Unit A now gains the full benefit of the USR from the IC, the same works for Stubborn, Tank Hunters, etc. as I stated earlier. Due to the wording for IC and attaching them to Squads "during deployment", it makes Infiltrate the only USR that I can think of off the top of my head that said Unit would not be able to gain the full benefit of. This seems, at least to me, to be prima facia evidence of the absurdity of this RAW situation.

This is why I believe that it was either typo in the Infiltrate rule (should have been worded like Fleet for instance), and crappy wording/editing of how to attach an IC to a Unit. Having played 40K for many years, and knowing GW's track record, either one is completely conceivable, and admittedly, the RAW regarding this whole IC and Infiltrate issue is not outside the realm of possibility as being intentional(see GW's track record), though having read the IC USR many times this evening I more convinced that it really is just a clunky wording that has left all of us at the mercy of this insane RAW.