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It seems that competetive Nids ignore fortifications as an option. Obviously, we can't use any weapons, but what about an ADL with Comms relay? For 70 points, we get better reserves control than Hive Commander, and with a Tervigon on it tougher than Hive Commander. I used to think it was my only option, but I've never liked tying my reserves to a a giant Target sign that is hurtling at my opponents line.

So, Nid players, in a Competetive setting, how useful would the above Aegis line be? It gives reliable 4++ cover to any backfield units you have. I don't think it'll help Tevigons, but every other unit in our army would benefit. In a list I'm currently constructing, I have 2x2 Biovores, 2x3 Hive Guard and 3x10 gants. By putting the Aegis line 6" up, I move up first turn and then am just fine holding still. That'd help a lot!


Thoughts?

The main problem with the ADL for nidz is you never want to be sitting back. If you are trading fire with your opponent you are going to lose. You want to be rushing forward and killing everything in sight with your scythes. An ADL is best used for a gun line as a bunker. This is not something that tyranids really need so no one uses it.

 lambsandlions wrote:
The main problem with the ADL for nidz is you never want to be sitting back. If you are trading fire with your opponent you are going to lose. You want to be rushing forward and killing everything in sight with your scythes. An ADL is best used for a gun line as a bunker. This is not something that tyranids really need so no one uses it.

My army doesn't lack for assailed units. The aegis is a disadvantage when you try to help your whole army with it, but with Nids I usually have a few backfield units, like Biovores and gants. What I want is a Comms relay, I suppose what I want input on is if it's worth 70 points for better reserves and the Aegis line.

Mindless conduits for the Hive Mind aren't going to know how to work such devices. They'll probably try to gnaw on it until they figure out that it isn't organic, then leave it.

 Wilytank wrote:
Mindless conduits for the Hive Mind aren't going to know how to work such devices. They'll probably try to gnaw on it until they figure out that it isn't organic, then leave it.

I put this in Tactics, not Background for a reason. If I decide I want one, then I'll include it regardless of fluff.

< Taken by the void dragon. >

If there isn't a specific rule against Tyranids using this stuff, why *can't* you use a weapon on the ADL? I know my Orks for one benefit from having a Lascannon in the force, maybe your crunchybugs can too?

I can see it being useful for Biovores and Hiveguards, to hold the mid-back field, and will give them a reliable save, as I find with those units, the weapons they are getting targetted with are usually high strength low ap, like missiles, purely for the range. So an ADL would help that issue. As for the Comms Relay and if it is worth the points, what sort of reserves are you running, and what would you be replacing to bring in the ADL and Comms?

 Dakkamite wrote:
If there isn't a specific rule against Tyranids using this stuff, why *can't* you use a weapon on the ADL? I know my Orks for one benefit from having a Lascannon in the force, maybe your crunchybugs can too?

Sadly, there is a rule specifically precluding Tyranids from using Gun Emplacements/Emplaced Weapons. My friend who had bashed up a Tyranid bio-quad-gun (a Venomthrope body, Carnifex Venom Cannon arms, and various plates and gribblies) was not too happy about that.

Bludbaff wrote:

 Dakkamite wrote:
If there isn't a specific rule against Tyranids using this stuff, why *can't* you use a weapon on the ADL? I know my Orks for one benefit from having a Lascannon in the force, maybe your crunchybugs can too?

Sadly, there is a rule specifically precluding Tyranids from using Gun Emplacements/Emplaced Weapons. My friend who had bashed up a Tyranid bio-quad-gun (a Venomthrope body, Carnifex Venom Cannon arms, and various plates and gribblies) was not too happy about that.

I'd let him use that just for the coolness factor.

Eldercaveman wrote:I can see it being useful for Biovores and Hiveguards, to hold the mid-back field, and will give them a reliable save, as I find with those units, the weapons they are getting targetted with are usually high strength low ap, like missiles, purely for the range. So an ADL would help that issue. As for the Comms Relay and if it is worth the points, what sort of reserves are you running, and what would you be replacing to bring in the ADL and Comms?

I'm building a new list, so not replacing really. But, I have 60 points left and 10 I can easily drop if I want this. As to reserves, I have two Flyrants who I sometimes reserve, as well as two Ymgarl squads and the Doom in Spod. I also like to have the option of reserving my Tervigons if I should see a drop-Jaws list

Bludbaff wrote:

 Dakkamite wrote:
If there isn't a specific rule against Tyranids using this stuff, why *can't* you use a weapon on the ADL? I know my Orks for one benefit from having a Lascannon in the force, maybe your crunchybugs can too?

Sadly, there is a rule specifically precluding Tyranids from using Gun Emplacements/Emplaced Weapons. My friend who had bashed up a Tyranid bio-quad-gun (a Venomthrope body, Carnifex Venom Cannon arms, and various plates and gribblies) was not too happy about that.

I can still use Comms Relays however, which is all I want.

 jifel wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:I can see it being useful for Biovores and Hiveguards, to hold the mid-back field, and will give them a reliable save, as I find with those units, the weapons they are getting targetted with are usually high strength low ap, like missiles, purely for the range. So an ADL would help that issue. As for the Comms Relay and if it is worth the points, what sort of reserves are you running, and what would you be replacing to bring in the ADL and Comms?

I'm building a new list, so not replacing really. But, I have 60 points left and 10 I can easily drop if I want this. As to reserves, I have two Flyrants who I sometimes reserve, as well as two Ymgarl squads and the Doom in Spod. I also like to have the option of reserving my Tervigons if I should see a drop-Jaws list

Fancy posting up the list? Maybe post it with the ADL/Comms and with the alternative with those spare 60 points?

Eldercaveman wrote:

 jifel wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:I can see it being useful for Biovores and Hiveguards, to hold the mid-back field, and will give them a reliable save, as I find with those units, the weapons they are getting targetted with are usually high strength low ap, like missiles, purely for the range. So an ADL would help that issue. As for the Comms Relay and if it is worth the points, what sort of reserves are you running, and what would you be replacing to bring in the ADL and Comms?

I'm building a new list, so not replacing really. But, I have 60 points left and 10 I can easily drop if I want this. As to reserves, I have two Flyrants who I sometimes reserve, as well as two Ymgarl squads and the Doom in Spod. I also like to have the option of reserving my Tervigons if I should see a drop-Jaws list

Fancy posting up the list? Maybe post it with the ADL/Comms and with the alternative with those spare 60 points?

Here's the rough draft.

2250, 2x FOC

Flyrant, Devs, OA
Flyrant, Devs, Hive Commander
10 gants
10 gants
10 gants
Tervigon, 3 powers, Adrenal/Toxin
Tervigon, 3 powers, Adrenal/Toxin
Tervigon, 3 powers, Toxin
3 Hive Guard
3 Hive Guard
Doom in Spod
5 Ymgarls
5 Ymgarls
2 Biovores
2 Biovores
ADL with Comms

If I had to drop the ADL, I'd also drop 2 Biovores, then add FC to the third Tervi, and buy 25 base Gargoyles. However, I like the extra Biovores because theyre great against Tau, who I expect to see en masse soon. So, what else would I do with 70 points? The ADL/Comms seems my best bet for TAC.

 jifel wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:

 jifel wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:I can see it being useful for Biovores and Hiveguards, to hold the mid-back field, and will give them a reliable save, as I find with those units, the weapons they are getting targetted with are usually high strength low ap, like missiles, purely for the range. So an ADL would help that issue. As for the Comms Relay and if it is worth the points, what sort of reserves are you running, and what would you be replacing to bring in the ADL and Comms?

I'm building a new list, so not replacing really. But, I have 60 points left and 10 I can easily drop if I want this. As to reserves, I have two Flyrants who I sometimes reserve, as well as two Ymgarl squads and the Doom in Spod. I also like to have the option of reserving my Tervigons if I should see a drop-Jaws list

Fancy posting up the list? Maybe post it with the ADL/Comms and with the alternative with those spare 60 points?

Here's the rough draft.

2250, 2x FOC

Flyrant, Devs, OA
Flyrant, Devs, Hive Commander
10 gants
10 gants
10 gants
Tervigon, 3 powers, Adrenal/Toxin
Tervigon, 3 powers, Adrenal/Toxin
Tervigon, 3 powers, Toxin
3 Hive Guard
3 Hive Guard
Doom in Spod
5 Ymgarls
5 Ymgarls
2 Biovores
2 Biovores
ADL with Comms

If I had to drop the ADL, I'd also drop 2 Biovores, then add FC to the third Tervi, and buy 25 base Gargoyles. However, I like the extra Biovores because theyre great against Tau, who I expect to see en masse soon. So, what else would I do with 70 points? The ADL/Comms seems my best bet for TAC.

Yeah looking at that list it would fit in quite nicely, plus for the 70 points you aren't going to get much of what you haven't already got, you could put in a zoan and some gants, but you already have psychic powers to boot and with 3 Tervs your not going to be shy on Gants, I take it you bought the extra powers on the Tervs? I say go for it.

The ADL is not necessary because tyranids should move as a whole in theory. Advance your army as a cohesive unit while keeping close to the objectives. Hide your biovores behind LOS-blocking terrain if your opponent has ranged weaponry that can insta-kill them. Otherwise, who really is going to be firing on your biovores when they've got to deal with 2 flyrants and 3 tervigons? Even your hive guards will get ignored initially in order for your opponent to try to shoot down your flyrants. Target prioritiy is key here. You really don't have to worry about your biovores, hive guards and gants because if your opponent is targeting them first, chances are you will beat them in the long run because their target prioritization is all wrong.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dakkamite wrote:
If there isn't a specific rule against Tyranids using this stuff, why *can't* you use a weapon on the ADL? I know my Orks for one benefit from having a Lascannon in the force, maybe your crunchybugs can too?

I believe its in the tyranid FAQ that they can't use the guns on the ADL or fortifications. Yeah, I know....lame.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jifel wrote:

2250, 2x FOC

Flyrant, Devs, OA
Flyrant, Devs, Hive Commander
10 gants
10 gants
10 gants
Tervigon, 3 powers, Adrenal/Toxin
Tervigon, 3 powers, Adrenal/Toxin
Tervigon, 3 powers, Toxin
3 Hive Guard
3 Hive Guard
Doom in Spod
5 Ymgarls
5 Ymgarls
2 Biovores
2 Biovores
ADL with Comms

If I had to drop the ADL, I'd also drop 2 Biovores, then add FC to the third Tervi, and buy 25 base Gargoyles. However, I like the extra Biovores because theyre great against Tau, who I expect to see en masse soon. So, what else would I do with 70 points? The ADL/Comms seems my best bet for TAC.

At that point level, go for 3 flyrants and 3 tervigons. That is a winning combo.

 jy2 wrote:
The ADL is not necessary because tyranids should move as a whole in theory. Advance your army as a cohesive unit while keeping close to the objectives. Hide your biovores behind LOS-blocking terrain if your opponent has ranged weaponry that can insta-kill them. Otherwise, who really is going to be firing on your biovores when they've got to deal with 2 flyrants and 3 tervigons? Even your hive guards will get ignored initially in order for your opponent to try to shoot down your flyrants. Target prioritiy is key here. You really don't have to worry about your biovores, hive guards and gants because if your opponent is targeting them first, chances are you will beat them in the long run because their target prioritization is all wrong.

There is usually not much LoS blocking terrain in my area. But, if I buy the Comms I'm going to have an ADL with it, so I'm trying to think of how I'd use it. Biovores and gants aren't high on priority list, but a random shot or two can really limit a Biovores effectiveness. Hive Guard are often prioritized above Tervigons, and I'd like to keep them around. Also, I find my Nids army really operates as two seperate groups, with a main advancing force led by Tervigons, and then a sudden reserve drop, which my Flyrants go to join. The Tervigons usually only buff themselves and the back group, unless FLyrants need endurance. Having an Aegis could help my back/midfielders I believe, and for the combined benefits of the Comms I believe is worth it. The ADL isnt worth 50, but the Comms and ADL I think is a good buy at 70.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jifel wrote:

2250, 2x FOC

*snipped my list*

If I had to drop the ADL, I'd also drop 2 Biovores, then add FC to the third Tervi, and buy 25 base Gargoyles. However, I like the extra Biovores because theyre great against Tau, who I expect to see en masse soon. So, what else would I do with 70 points? The ADL/Comms seems my best bet for TAC.

At that point level, go for 3 flyrants and 3 tervigons. That is a winning combo.

For a third Flyrant, assuming no upgrades besides wings/Devs, what would you reccomend dropping? The Aegis, and both Biovore broods and 10 gants (Tervi to HQ) would let me buy one with 40 left over. Probably would add OA to the new Flyrant, then FC to the HQ tervi, and maybe an extra gant or ScyTals.

I tried using a ADL before with my chaos space marines. It just ended up impeding their advancement. I see the same issues for bugs. You have an army that wants to push forwards but with the ADL, you're going to have to be taking difficult terrain tests. If the lead unit(s) trips up and rolls low on the DT test, it becomes a bottleneck for the rest of your army, impeding their progress. The ADL then becomes more of a hindrance than helpful.

Also, it is very easy for opponents to stay out of range of your hive guards. You stick them behind the ADL and that only discourages them from advancing and if you advance them, then what good is the protection of the ADL?

Your reserves coming in on a 2+ due to HC is already good enough. I don't see your army as so reliant on reserves that you need both HC and the Comms....it just seems like overkill to me.

I recommend you try playing a few games with them. If they do work for you, then keep it. But I have a feeling that you will be dumping them after just a few games. The 70-pts can be put to much better use. Perhaps more gants, more ymgarls or even 2-3 crushing claws to make your tervigons actual threats in combat. Personally, I'd use those points and cut elsewhere to get the 3rd flyrant. Perhaps drop another unit of ymgarls, the biovores and the ADL. If you want to keep the 2 units of ymgarls, then the ADL, 1 unit of biovores and 2 hive guards (have 2 units of 2 HG's instead).