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Made in gb
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





Nottinghamshire, UK

Just read about this on Warseer and as I don't see a thread about it here, may as well share it.

It seems GW have stated that Blight Wheel's "Mutant Komodo" promotional model for Salute 2013 is a rip-off of the Loxatl artwork from the Sabbat Worlds background book.

I don't have any in-depth knowledge of IP law, so I'll leave the detailed analysis to people who do, but just as I see it I see some things to think about. On the one hand I think it's pretty obviously inspired by the Loxatl, but on the other hand is this another situation where it could be argued that this is too broad an idea (I guess in this case it would be "sci fi giant lizards") for GW to claim ownership of? Do certain features, such as the presence of a specific "belly gun" type weapon as depicted in the artwork and mentioned several times in BL books (Gaunt series especially), swing things more in GW's favour?

It's hard to find pictures of the miniature, in fact it looks like they've taken all pictures of it off their site, but here are some images of the model:

http://www.beastsofwar.com/blight-wheel-miniatures/blight-wheel-miniatures-unleash-komodo-warrior-salute/

And here's the GW artwork:

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/File:Loxatldetails.jpg#.UW752spu52B

Driven away from WH40K by rules bloat and the expense of keeping up, now interested in smaller model count games and anything with nifty mechanics. 
   
Made in us
Badass "Sister Sin"






Camas, WA

Salute Mini




GW Artwork


I know I'm going to get ripped for this, but those two look pretty close. This is much better than their other silly IP lawsuits. Not that this one isn't silly, just closer to not silly than the others.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/17 20:01:41


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Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

Isn't it already established that IP infringement can't cross mediums? So a 3D sculpt of a 2D artwork is not an issue?

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

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Made in us
Badass "Sister Sin"






Camas, WA

Check out the hands and positioning especially. Ahh, from the letter



I hadn't even noticed gunbelt and gun underneath. That does look like a direct port of that pic.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/04/17 20:08:03


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Made in pt
Tea-Kettle of Blood




 azreal13 wrote:
Isn't it already established that IP infringement can't cross mediums? So a 3D sculpt of a 2D artwork is not an issue?


No idea if that is true or not.

If its not true, then I'd say that GW is pretty much in the right on this one, that model is a pretty exact representation of GW's drawing.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Different number of fingers from what I can tell.
   
Made in us
Badass "Sister Sin"






Camas, WA

From the letter
"There an an infinite number of ways which an armed mutant komodo dragon could have been depicted and yet your figure copies all of the key characteristics of our Loxotl artwork."

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/17 20:10:50


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Made in gb
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





Nottinghamshire, UK

Cheers Pretre, I couldn't work out how to bring the pics over.

If it doesn't count as IP infringement if it's from one medium to another then that could undermine GW's whole case, but if not they could have a pretty strong argument.

It looks like some aspects of the model are subtly different - I'd add that perhaps the face is a bit different looking (the one in the painting is quite happy-looking with rounder eyes and perhaps a slightly different shaped head, it' hard to tell), in addition to the chunkier looking hands with less fingers. But would BW be able to argue that it isn't IP infringement if they point to small differences like that, or would they be considered mere token changes that don't make it different enough?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/17 20:15:11


Driven away from WH40K by rules bloat and the expense of keeping up, now interested in smaller model count games and anything with nifty mechanics. 
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

Personally,I think GW jumping on people for being 'inspired' by other people's artistic endeavours is risking opening a can of worms every time they do it.

But logic and legality do not always make the easiest bedfellows!

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

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Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot




WA

That does look VERY similar. Although I have no problem with someone making a mini if GW wasn't going to.

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Made in us
Wraith






GW certainly isn't a bastion of originality, by any stretch, but this miniature is at the very least in extremely sketchy territory.
   
Made in us
Badass "Sister Sin"






Camas, WA

 azreal13 wrote:
Personally,I think GW jumping on people for being 'inspired' by other people's artistic endeavours is risking opening a can of worms every time they do it.

But logic and legality do not always make the easiest bedfellows!

While I agree that they are way over zealous, this one is a bit more cut and dry than Spot the Space Marine.

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Made in gb
Zealous Shaolin





So were not going to get our free Salute Minis then courtesy of GW - nice PR GW even if you may be in the right on this one
   
Made in se
Regular Dakkanaut






This time GW is right. That's a shameless copy

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Camas, WA

 Dynamix wrote:
So were not going to get our free Salute Minis then courtesy of GW - nice PR GW even if you may be in the right on this one

This is why we can't have nice things. :(

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Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka





Southampton

I don't see it myself. Similar perhaps, but not similar enough IMHO.

Does GW own the rights to space lizards now?

   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






I don't blame GW for this one, but I will let the Dakka Armchair Legal brains decide if they have a case or not.

C&D letters are cheap and easy to send... why not send them? This is more valid than Lammasu and Spots and probably one of their stronger attempts so maybe the new legal team is getting smarter about where 'the line' is.

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Made in gb
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






There are also an infinite number of ways a Loxatl can be drawn. Pull the other one GW...

How can companies like Heresy and Hasslefree do "not" Doctor Who minis for example and not get squashed by the BBC, yet Blight Wheel do exactly the same (nowhere does this say it is a GW Loxatl) and GW goes in all guns blazing? Have Chapterhouse got them that spooked?

Even if they are somewhat in the right, they've just annihilated any goodwill they may have had left with an entire convention's worth of customers.


Games Workshop Delenda Est.

If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
Made in gb
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Yvan eht nioj






In my Austin Ambassador Y Reg

 pretre wrote:
 Dynamix wrote:
So were not going to get our free Salute Minis then courtesy of GW - nice PR GW even if you may be in the right on this one

This is why we can't have nice things. :(


I thought the free Salute mini this year was a Spartan/Greek hoplite?

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Made in us
Badass "Sister Sin"






Camas, WA

 Flashman wrote:
I don't see it myself. Similar perhaps, but not similar enough IMHO.

Does GW own the rights to space lizards now?


Read the letter. Same stance, same hands, same gun under the chest, same bandolier of bullets, same head implant. One or two would be meh, whatever, but all of them?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Grimtuff wrote:
How can companies like Heresy and Hasslefree do "not" Doctor Who minis for example and not get squashed by the BBC, yet Blight Wheel do exactly the same (nowhere does this say it is a GW Loxatl) and GW goes in all guns blazing? Have Chapterhouse got them that spooked?

Yes. GW is crazy spooked right now, I would guess.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/17 20:30:36


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Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka





Southampton

 pretre wrote:
 Flashman wrote:
I don't see it myself. Similar perhaps, but not similar enough IMHO.

Does GW own the rights to space lizards now?


Read the letter. Same stance, same hands, same gun under the chest, same bandolier of bullets, same head implant. One or two would be meh, whatever, but all of them?


Meh, maybe. I pity the GW staff who have to scour the internet looking for barely perceptible similarities to company designs.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/17 20:32:42


   
Made in us
Badass "Sister Sin"






Camas, WA

 Flashman wrote:
Meh, maybe. I pity the GW staff who have to scour the internet looking for barely perceptible similarities to company designs.

I don't know that I would call it 'barely perceptible'. They look pretty close to me.

I do feel sorry for the folks who have to track this stuff, but I imagine it isn't difficult. It's probably the same guy who surfs around on blogs and forums. If that guy actually exists and they don't just have a tip line.

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Made in gb
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair





Beijing

 RatBot wrote:
GW certainly isn't a bastion of originality, by any stretch, but this miniature is at the very least in extremely sketchy territory.


I've never seen the GW creature before, it must be a fairly obscure publication and it's certainly not one of their main races.

It looks like a lizard with a bullet belt to me. GW is getting desperate.
   
Made in gb
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






Gotta love people trolling GW back.

http://gamingexpat.wordpress.com/2013/04/17/a-response-to-gw-cd-to-blight-wheel-miniatures/





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If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
Made in gb
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





Nottinghamshire, UK

 filbert wrote:
 pretre wrote:
 Dynamix wrote:
So were not going to get our free Salute Minis then courtesy of GW - nice PR GW even if you may be in the right on this one

This is why we can't have nice things. :(


I thought the free Salute mini this year was a Spartan/Greek hoplite?


It's a Blight Wheel specific offer, if you pick up at least £50 worth of stuff preordered from them you'll get one, and they are supposed to have a limited number at their stall on the day, and again if you spend £50 you'll get one. Whether that will be happening now, I don't know. I'm hoping to attend the show myself so I might try to swing by their area and see what's going on...

Driven away from WH40K by rules bloat and the expense of keeping up, now interested in smaller model count games and anything with nifty mechanics. 
   
Made in us
Badass "Sister Sin"






Camas, WA


That was a good read.

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Made in gb
Zealous Shaolin





This is the official Salute Mini

http://www.beastsofwar.com/salute/join-argonauts-year-salute-2013/

The Lizard seems to be a promo when you order something from the makers for collection at Salute

Edit : Ninja'd a few posts back !

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/17 20:43:18


 
   
Made in us
Wraith






 Howard A Treesong wrote:
 RatBot wrote:
GW certainly isn't a bastion of originality, by any stretch, but this miniature is at the very least in extremely sketchy territory.


I've never seen the GW creature before, it must be a fairly obscure publication and it's certainly not one of their main races.

It looks like a lizard with a bullet belt to me. GW is getting desperate.



All those bits in your first line is true, but that doesn't mean it's a coincidence. I'd like better, more detailed pictures of the miniature, but it does look like the belt and the gun are identical to the ones in the concept art.


I think it's pretty well known that I have very little love for GW and their shenanigans, but with this one I'm not so sure that GW is completely in the wrong. With that said, if GW never planned on producing a model for this piece of art, then it seems a tad moot; it's not like GW's going to be losing any sales here.

Clearer pictures and close-ups would be nice.
   
Made in gb
Fanatic with Madcap Mushrooms







So I guess that GW still managed to find something to participate on Salute

   
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Wraith








I legitimately lol'ed.
   
 
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