Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Here's my list I decided to submit it to see its all round effectiveness.
hq eldrad in a wave serpent with 9 dragons with exarch, firepike, tank hunter and crack shot
10 avengers in a wave serpent with shield and sword exarch
10 rangers updgraded to pathfinders
2 fireprisms
wraithlord with 2 flamers, sword and rokkit launcher
total 1326pts im saving the last 200 pts or so for some of the new models
but what do you think so far

If you want your FDs to be mroe than a suicide squad then I recommend sticking a PL in that squad to eat enemy firepower when they* pop out.

The Wraithlord doesn't really fit with this force... You might be able to get away with running it behind the tank that Eldrad is in so that it doesn't derp out and to provide it with a steady cover save. If you're going to do that then drop the EML. You'll need to be running, rather than shooting, if you hope to keep close, like within 6 inches, of the tank. Use those saved points wisely.

You are low on scoring units. Only one objective can be held per scoring unit so you could only hold two maximum as it stands. It may be worthwhile to split your pathfinders into two squads so that you have at least three scoring units. Consider downgrading them to rangers so that you can field more bodies in each squad too.

 warpspider89 wrote:
If you want your FDs to be mroe than a suicide squad then I recommend sticking a PL in that squad to eat enemy firepower when they* pop out.

The Wraithlord doesn't really fit with this force... You might be able to get away with running it behind the tank that Eldrad is in so that it doesn't derp out and to provide it with a steady cover save. If you're going to do that then drop the EML. You'll need to be running, rather than shooting, if you hope to keep close, like within 6 inches, of the tank. Use those saved points wisely.

You are low on scoring units. Only one objective can be held per scoring unit so you could only hold two maximum as it stands. It may be worthwhile to split your pathfinders into two squads so that you have at least three scoring units. Consider downgrading them to rangers so that you can field more bodies in each squad too.

as for the wraithlord not fitting in it is designed to give terror to all the enemies as last time i ran him everyone was terrified i liked that
but ok with the no rokkit launcher. which phoenix lord should go with the dragons instead of eldrad\

ty so far

The top choices are Fuegan, who would save you points on Exarch powers, or Karandas. Fuegan can absorb more pain than Karandas, he can shoot, and he can destroy most things in CC with his AP2 attacks & the possibility of smashing at S10. On the other hand Karandas is an even bigger beast in CC and he convers the Stealth rule to any squad he joins. He may even confer it to the transport though I am not sure that that is the case. I favor Fuegan but they're both top dogs.

Remember that the WL has a chance of derping out if not in 6" of a psycher.

havnt got codex handy since im at school
which lords are they
forgot word like if they are scorpion lord

FD Lord and SS Lord in that order

why the phoenix lord to soak up fire wouldn't it make a fire magnet and get killed before it blows that fancy 2 landraider line since people hate phoenix lords
as for the scorpion i would not understand as the squad is designed to shoot some stuff get back in and fly 36' to next target not engage in cc
but im very proud of my list as this is the only list ive ever made without people saying its really
what do you think and what tactics should i enlist
so far you have said
hq phoenix lord
9 Fire dragons with exarch and fire pike with both powers in a wave serpent
5 rangers
5 rangers
Dire avengers in wave sepent with sword and shield
2 fire prisms
maybe wraithlord but without launcher with sword and flamers(flamers are free)
did i miss anything

FDs are going to be getting up close and personal. They can't fire and then get back into the vehicle. They need to be able to survive at least one round of shooting. A pheonix lord has a 2+ save that is rerollable with Fortune. That allows your squad to take a ton of pain as opposed to what it would take if they were hitting the Fire Dragons or Eldrad directly. Being able to survive and maybe even win in CC is important for the same reason: you don't (basically) automatically lose your precious FDs when whatever is in those land raiders gets out and comes after you.

well said my friend well said
but wheres the fortune coming from you didnt include a farseer in my list
and Wow a 2+ inv thats always helpful(or is it a armour save)
and definitely correct about having to stand around for return fire
thank god you thought of that
can they split into 2 squads if there is 2 vechicles or do they have to choose which one they want to shoot(or should i just make them seperate squads of five with FD special char and farseer then fortune both squads)
who should be at front to take brunt of the fire
can i re-embark after firing
thanks heaps

Ohhh! I didn't mean replace eldrad with a PL. Thats the problem. I meant for the PL & Eldrad to roll together with the FD squad. It is a 2+ armor save. No prob about the help man. I'm just making a couple small suggestions. I figure you know how to use your forces already and this is to just make minor adjustments to get a little mroe out of them

ok but i heard that eldrad may not be out in 6th edition
so i was wary about relying on eldrads power then having to use a regular farseer
but awesome how about re-embarking and other parts of list
so should they be in seperate 5 squads with eldrad in one FDs lord in other and eldrad fortunes bot squad then guides or in 1 squad then he can use doom guid and fortune.
yes i have been playing for 5 years but never as a serious eldar player and im a bit worried about a MC tyranid list that my friend is using dont know exact components yet i will post them when i know
thank you so much so far

Why Eldrad not be in the new codex? He's been a staple special character since 2nd edition, even with him being dead. I wouldn't base any decision for an army off random conjecture.

No way they are taking out Eldrad. He is an important character in both the fluff and in an army. They might screw with him because he is that powerful, but won't remove him altogether.

GTKA666 wrote:
No way they are taking out Eldrad. He is an important character in both the fluff and in an army. They might screw with him because he is that powerful, but won't remove him altogether.

yeah i would hope there is an epic siege in which they recover his spirit stone and become a wraithseer(wraithlord who is a machine with a spirit stone from a fallen farseer)
but if you think he wont be taken out i will keep him as i trust you guys
thanks so far

I suggest taking eldrad out of the wave serpent, take out the exarch on the Dragons and drop the squad down.
The avenger exarch should have the double guns and blade storm.
10 pathfinders is a bit overkill in my opinion and a waste of points.
I'd also consider using just one fire prism, the double shot can be useful but if you're just getting 2 for that rule i'd pass.
I would actually keep the wraithlord just for the fact that they're fun and that's what hobbies are all about.
With these left over points, like warpspider said you need more scoring units, I would recommend jet bikes.

Do not drop a fire prism. The redundancy is vital as well as the versatility. I assure you that the collective wisdom of Eldar players on this website vastly supports the use of at least two fire prisms if any fire prisms are to be fielded.

I fail to see why Eldrad should be removed from the wave serpent or why the Dragons should be reduced in strength if they are going to be used as a mini-deathstar.

 warpspider89 wrote:
Do not drop a fire prism. The redundancy is vital as well as the versatility. I assure you that the collective wisdom of Eldar players on this website vastly supports the use of at least two fire prisms if any fire prisms are to be fielded.

I fail to see why Eldrad should be removed from the wave serpent or why the Dragons should be reduced in strength if they are going to be used as a mini-deathstar.

If I run prisms, it's always 2 Prisms. Always.

I wouldn't put Eldrad in a wave serpent. You can't get out and then cast fortune as it's cast at the start of the movement phase and he can't cast eldar farseer powers in a wave serpent due to the eldar FAQ....
So, so you can't cast in, you also can't get out and cast. If your dragons leap out, there isn't a way eldrad can fortune them till next turn. The most you could do is try to roll for invisibility from telepathy or the 4++ from divination - we can still do rule book powers in a transport.

PredaKhaine wrote:

 warpspider89 wrote:
Do not drop a fire prism. The redundancy is vital as well as the versatility. I assure you that the collective wisdom of Eldar players on this website vastly supports the use of at least two fire prisms if any fire prisms are to be fielded.

I fail to see why Eldrad should be removed from the wave serpent or why the Dragons should be reduced in strength if they are going to be used as a mini-deathstar.

If I run prisms, it's always 2 Prisms. Always.

I wouldn't put Eldrad in a wave serpent. You can't get out and then cast fortune as it's cast at the start of the movement phase and he can't cast eldar farseer powers in a wave serpent due to the eldar FAQ....
So, so you can't cast in, you also can't get out and cast. If your dragons leap out, there isn't a way eldrad can fortune them till next turn. The most you could do is try to roll for invisibility from telepathy or the 4++ from divination - we can still do rule book powers in a transport.

thats well i guess i understand the 10 rangers are overkill and puttung eldrad in a wave serpent would be a death sentence since he cant cast fortune and conceal with guide so he has to survive for 1 turn but i dont understand why he cant cast powers when he gets out and yes 2 fire prisms or no prisms is what i think(and arnt powers cast in shooting phase)
i guess i will just hold for the new codex to come out as we might lose some units or gain better ones but i will post a draft list no.2 when the codex comes out so please help me then
until then thanks for all the help you have given me

To clear up the casting of fortune. You CAN cast it on the unit Edrad is with IN the WS or you can cast guide and fortune on the WS itself. You CAN'T cast any powers out side of those two things. People take things too literally and forget that you can still cast powers on people inside your own tank or on the tank itself. The thing you can't do is have a mobile Eldrad casting Fortune on every unit he drives by.

GTKA666 wrote:
To clear up the casting of fortune. You CAN cast it on the unit Edrad is with IN the WS or you can cast guide and fortune on the WS itself. You CAN'T cast any powers out side of those two things. People take things too literally and forget that you can still cast powers on people inside your own tank or on the tank itself. The thing you can't do is have a mobile Eldrad casting Fortune on every unit he drives by.

Eldar FAQ wrote:
Q:The Farseer Psychic Powers rules state that they do not require the Eldar Psyker to have line of sight to the target. Does this mean that they can be used by an Eldar psyker embarked on a transport? (p28)
A:No.

This stops it dead. We can't cast eldar farseer powers in a WS because of this - so no fortune, guide, doom, mind war or eldritch storm.

We can still cast BRB powers while embarked.

The reason we can't use fortune effectively is that it a start of the turn power - at the start of the turn Eldrad is embarked so he can't cast it. If you get out, then you've missed the chance to cast it.
Eldrad in a transport is hard to use effectively. If you want drive by fortunes, then your best bet is a jetseer.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

hiveof_chimera wrote:
thats well i guess i understand the 10 rangers are overkill and puttung eldrad in a wave serpent would be a death sentence since he cant cast fortune and conceal with guide so he has to survive for 1 turn but i dont understand why he cant cast powers when he gets out and yes 2 fire prisms or no prisms is what i think(and arnt powers cast in shooting phase)
i guess i will just hold for the new codex to come out as we might lose some units or gain better ones but i will post a draft list no.2 when the codex comes out so please help me then
until then thanks for all the help you have given me

Eldar farseer powers are conditional as to when they can be used - IIRC you can get out and Mind war/Eldritch storm, but doom, guide and fortune are start of turn powers.

We can still do conceal in a tank - thats a warlock power so it gets round that stupid bit of faq. 10 rangers isn't overkill - it's damn useful. Have them support your line and use them to cherry pick sergeants, powerfists and banner bearers out of squads - then smash your wraithlord into the same squad and laugh as they can't hurt it at all...

Don't give up! We can still do really horrible things to people with our dated 'dex

Bakka. Your in a transport and casting it on your OWN unit IN the transport. You just can't cast powers like doom in the WS. Read it over again. You always have LOS on the unit inside the transport hence you can guide them and fortune and then pop out. I have discussed this at length with a GK player and an Ork player. The ork player is a judge and if for casting fortune and guide while in the transport and had some ways of justifying it, but I forget.

At the moment because of this stupid sentence beneath, I'm not doing it.The faq seems like it answered too generally. I think they meant 'can't cast guide/fortune etc out of a transport.' What they wrote is a catch all statement that playing strict raw stops anything.

eldar faq wrote:
'Does this mean that they can be used by an Eldar psyker embarked on a transport? (p28)
A:No. '

If you could ask your friend again that'd be great

well if you also read it carefully it never bunks psychers casting on the squad they are with. Reason? That entire question is about casting on units outside of the WS. Since it doesn't explicitly say that we can't guide/fortune while we are inside and on our own unit inside then we can have fun there. That statement is broad, but the context in which it is used allows us to cast guide and fortune upon the very unit the farseer/Eldrad is with.

Another way to look at it is if a unit with infiltrate is inside a transport then the transport can infiltrate. If a Warlock is inside a transport then everything, but destructor is still on. So if abilities can still happen inside a WS why can't you cast psychic abilities upon your own unit? That's another train of thought for ya. The reason as to why psychers can't cast through fire points is to prevent a battlewagon full of burna boys, but at a psycher level.

An Eldar Farseer can still cast it's blessings (Guide/Fortune) on itself, its unit and its transport whilst inside the transport. The reason being is that the BRB powers require LOS, but the Eldar powers did not require line of sight. So you had the eternal farseer inside WS dooming/guiding stuff outside it's skimming metal lunch box.

Long story short - you can guide/fortune your ride and your squad whilst inside the WS.

Only Phoenix lords of the specific aspect can lead aspect squads. Karandas isn't an option in the wave.

Pathfinders are a bit weak. I would recommend using smaller ranger squads to hold multiple objectives and to have more flexibility in shooting if you want to use them.

War walkers are without question the best codex model at the moment.

Good luck

-S

serathnal wrote:
Only Phoenix lords of the specific aspect can lead aspect squads. Karandas isn't an option in the wave.

Pathfinders are a bit weak. I would recommend using smaller ranger squads to hold multiple objectives and to have more flexibility in shooting if you want to use them.

War walkers are without question the best codex model at the moment.

Good luck

-S

incorrect. You can put Fuegan with Harlequins or any other squad. What does not happen is that the exarch powers don't go to the squad unless it is with their aspect.

serathnal wrote:
Only Phoenix lords of the specific aspect can lead aspect squads. Karandas isn't an option in the wave.

Pathfinders are a bit weak. I would recommend using smaller ranger squads to hold multiple objectives and to have more flexibility in shooting if you want to use them.

War walkers are without question the best codex model at the moment.

Good luck

-S

Phoenix lords can only lead aspect warriors of their own aspect. So I can't put Fuegan with banshees etc.
The 'dex doesn't say anything about them not being able to lead squads like guardians, wraithguard and harlequins.

True but issue was plan to put Karandas with Fire Dragons. That is why I said they can't lead other aspects....

-S

Good catch