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1750 Daemons vs Wraithwing NecrOrks! (Completed)  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Do the new daemons have what it takes to beat a very tough Necron-Ork alliance?
Yes, when daemons get all the rolls going for them, they are unstoppable.
Draw. Somehow, daemons manage to wipe out all the Necrork troops. Unsurprisingly, they lose their troops as well.
No, Necrorks have more than the daemons can handle.

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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

Had a game against SabrX, who was playing one of my armies this time. I brought my Tzeentch/Slaanesh Daemons and SabrX decided to bring a very competitive and very unbalanced Necron-Ork army (actually, he was using my army). This is not going to be an easy battle. I'm going to have to use every iota of my tactical acumen just to survive his army.

BTW, this was the same army I used in Game #1 from the videorep:

Video Bat Rep: Tzeentch Daemon Double Header vs. Tau and vs. Space Wolves


-------------------------------------------------------------------


1750 Daemons vs Wraithwing NecrOrks


1750 Daemons



Lord of Change - Lvl 3, 2x Greater Gifts (3+, Re-roll Invuln's) - Prescience, Foreboding, Flickering Fire

Warlord Trait: Re-roll Warp Storm table

Herald - Tzeentch, Lvl 3, Loci of Conjuration, Exalted Gift (Grimoire of True Names) - Prescience, Foreboding, Flickering Fire
Herald - Tzeentch, Lvl 3, Loci of Conjuration, Exalted Gift (Portaglyph) - Prescience, Precognition, Flickering Fire

16x Pink Horrors
16x Pink Horrors

15x Seekers of Slaanesh

Daemon Prince - Tzeentch, 3+, Wings, Lvl 3, 2x Greater Gifts (Hellfire Gaze, Armourbane/Fleshbane) - Iron Arm, Enfeeble, Warp Speed
Soulgrinder - Slaanesh, Baleful Torrent
Soulgrinder - Tzeentch, Phlegm



1750 Necron-Orks



This is an approximation of his list:

Destroyer Lord, - 2+, Mindshackle Scarabs, Res Orb
Warboss - Bike, Power Klaw, Attack Squig, 5++

5x Warriors - Night Scythe
5x Warriors - Night Scythe
30x Shoota Boys
30x Shoota Boys

6x Wraiths - 2-3x Whip Coils
6x Wraiths - 2-3x Whip Coils
6x Wraiths - 2-3x Whip Coils


-------------------------------------------------------------------


Mission: Bay Area Open Scenario #5 - Purge the Alien (4pts) & The Scouring (3pts)

The way the BAO scenarios work is this. There are always 2 book missions, one worth 4 points and the other worth 3 points. There are also the 3 bonus points - First Blood, Slay the Warlord and Linebreaker - for a possible total of 10 points. Whoever gets the most points wins. In scenario #5, The Scouring is worth 3-points and Purge the Alien worth 4-points.


Deployment: Vanguard Strike


Initiative: Necrorks


-------------------------------------------------------------------


Map of terrain:


This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2013/04/20 15:33:00



6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
ATC 2013 - Team Fluffy Bunnies - 1st .....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
7th Edition: 2015-16 ITC Best Grey Knights, 2015-16 ITC Best Tyranids
Jy2's 6th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links.....Jy2's 7th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

PRE-GAME ANALYSIS:

Daemons:
Wow, I think this is going to be a tough battle for my fledgling daemons. In the Scouring, my opponent has got 7 scoring units, all of which are hard to kill! I've only got 2 with a possibility to get more (that is, if I don't forget about my Portaglyph). He's also got highly mobile troops with warriors in scythes and the very deadly wraiths. His scoring units - other than his warriors - can also tarpit my units in assault, well, most of them anyways.

Try to Enfeeble any wraith units that I can and shoot them down with Pink Horror shooting (twin-linked S6 shots vs T3 Enfeebled wraiths). Lock my soulgrinders into combat with his ork boys and then deal with his 3 wraithstars with my 2 FMC's and the seekers. His biker warboss will be a problem, however, because he should be able to kill my grinders if he's hidden inside the orks. Mindshackles will also play a key role in determining the outcome of the wraith-FMC battles. If they go off, then my MC's are probably done for. If not, then I'll try to takedown as many wraiths as possible, hopefully with a little help from my shooting.

As for his flyers, I'm afraid I'm going to have to ignore them for the time being. I might be able to take Victory Points if I don't roll poorly on any of my armies' random elements, but I think I am a huge underdog in the Scouring. By the ways, with the exception of Iron Arm on my Daemon Prince, I didn't get really good rewards nor the psychic powers - Forewarning, Perfect Timing, Precognition - that I wanted.


Necrorks:
My opponent's army isn't very balanced - he's got hardly any shooting and is basically relying on purely assault. However, he's got a very strong ground presence. Heck, 18 wraiths surrounded by Ork troops is about as tough as it gets. His army is pure Ground-N-Pound. His wraithstar can practically mow down any unit in my army all by themselves. Even my grinder isn't safe against rending wraiths backed by a D-lord. He's also got a S10 Warboss that can deal with my grinders as long as he is protected by an entourage of ork boys. But my opponent's biggest strength is probably the mobility of his troops. I don't have much in the ways of anti-air as I will need my 2 horror units to help against his ground forces. Thus, his flyers will probably have free reign in this game, at least initially. I may just forfeit the Scouring to him and focus on wracking up the VP's. That's probably my best chance for a victory. However, VP's won't be easy to come by in his army. Most of his units are pretty darn hard to take down.

Overall, I think Necrorks are the slight favorite in this game. I do have the experience advantage against my opponent, though it isn't by much. Daemons are still somewhat new to me and SabrX does have experience playing as as well as against my necrons. BTW, so far he is 2-0 when using my necrons against me in 6th Edition. Lol.

By Sabrx:

Based on prior games (before this game) with and against Jy2's Necrons, I find Necron's major weakness is fragile scoring units. While a min-Warrior squad inside a Night Scythe has the best mobility compared to other scoring units in the game, they can't make a move until objectives are clear. All the while, existing Necron forces takes a pounding from the bulk of enemy shooting/attacks forces that aren't in reserves.

Trading a couple units of min-Warriors in Night Scythes for a couple Boyz squad seems to be a good trade off. Its not totally relinquishing Necron mobile scoring units. There will needs to be a compulsory 2 troop units for the Necrons. Shoota Boyz provides more ground presence and could lend their support to the Wraiths.

While my list isn't well rounded, it should pack enough raw power to deal with most popular builds. Having Ever-living Res-orb for the Destroyer Lord lessens the risk of my opponent scoring Slay the Warlord. Also, conventional Ork army's weakness is lack of mobile scoring units. A typical Ork player would place his/her objectives 12" away from opposing objectives. With Necron ally, that shouldn't be a problem.

This will be my first time facing the new Daemons. When Jy2 gave me the run down of his list prior to the game, I was surprised by the amount of psykers it contained. It seems more overwhelming compared to Jy2's Nids.

I'll have to watch out for the Portaglyph. Free scoring unit generator can be pretty nasty. It's also impossible to create a contingency plan against the Warp Storm. That bit of randomness could be either helpful, or devastating.

While my list do contain 7 scoring units, it also makes the Wraiths a bigger target. Scouring works both ways. Every Fast Attack unit killed counts toward the secondary objective.


-------------------------------------------------------------------


Deployment:

Spoiler:

For the objectives, we were using the Heroes of the Imperium.


Warlord Traits:

Destroyer Lord (Necrorks) - +1VP for each character killed in a challenge

Lord of Change (Daemons) - Re-roll Warp Storm table 12"


SabrX deploys his orks in the front and wraiths behind. Sorry about the lighting.


Another perspective of SabrX's deployment. Night scythes in reserves.


Daemon deployment.


Another perspective. The seeker proxies hide behind the LOS-blocking terrain.


My rear objective, Pedro Kantor, is worth 1-pt. Mysterious objective lets me re-roll 1's to hit for the unit controlling this objective.


Marneus Calgar out in front (of my deployment zone) is an exploding objective worth 3-pts.


Custom Celestine in my deployment zone is worth 2 points. I believe this objective is Scatterfield?


Lysander in SabrX's deployment zone is worth 3-pts and gives his units skyfire! Ouch! That may hurt when 30 shoota boys shoot at my FMC.


No one is on Draigo, who is only 1-pt.


Finally, SabrX's canoness objective is worth 2-pts.

I fail to seize and we begin.




-------------------------------------------------------------------


Necrorks 1

Spoiler:

Necrork movement. SabrX makes sure to keep his left 2 wraiths out of LOS of my Daemon Prince while keeping his right wraiths more than 24" away from my DP. He wants no part of Enfeeble and twin-linked S6 Pink Horror shooting.


Necrorks then run.

He is just daring me to assault him by moving into my threat range.




Daemons 1

Spoiler:
I forget to take pictures of my Movement phase.

Daemons cast their psychic powers. I believe my DP becomes T7. I use the Grimoire on the seekers. However, it reduces their Invuln's to 6++ instead so I hold them back for 1 turn.

Both my LOC and DP glides towards his lead wraith unit (with Destroyer Lord) and prepares to assault them.

I drop off my Portaglyph but it fails to produce any troops this turn.



I focus both units of horrors (with Prescience) onto his Warbosses' unit and only kill 12.

LOC and DP shoot at the wraithstar and kill 1 wraith along with 1W on his D-lord.


Soulgrinder fires at his naked wraith unit but scatters and kills 4 shoota boys instead.


I believe I lose 1 horror to Perils.


I then assault both FMC's into his wraithstar. Hmmmm....I think I have Warp Speed on my DP instead of Flickering Fire. My Warlord challenges his Warlord. MSS fails to go off.


SabrX makes a lot of Invuln saves and I end up killing only 1 wraith plus his Warlord.


Fortunately for my opponent, his Warlord gets back up thanks to his Res Orb, thus denying me 1 VP + Slay the Warlord.




Necrorks 2

Spoiler:

Both of his flyers come in.


Wraiths and biker warboss go after my Tzeentch soulgrinder. Note that his warboss is not and cannot attache to the wraiths.


Orks advance.


Here as well.


Night scythe takes down 4 seekers.


His other scythe takes out 2 horrors. Tesla arcs and kills another 1 horror.


He assaults another unit of wraiths into the existing combat!

My Warlord passes MSS again and challenges his Warlord again.


Wraiths and warboss barrow into my grinder. He only manages to take off 2 Hull Points and I put 2W on his Warboss.


I survive! Partially because my LOC is in a challenge. Partially because he was hitting my DP's on 5's. Partially because my DP insta-killed 4 wraiths before they could even strike!!!

To add insult to injury, my LOC finishes off his Warlord and this time, he fails to come back, thus giving me both Slay the Warlord and First Blood!

Daemons: 1, Necrorks: 0




Daemons 2

Spoiler:

I believe the Grimoire fails to go off on my seekers. DP gets +2S/T and +3A. After casting my psychic powers, I move my seekers and Slaanesh grinder towards his orks. I'm looking at perhaps a 10-11" charge for my seekers.

The Portaglyph once again fails to produce any troops. Nothing eventful happens during the Warp Storm.


1 unit of horrors without Prescience (cast it on the seekers instead) fails to down a flyer. The other unit of horrors with Prescience downs a night scythe.

Daemons: 2, Necrorks: 0


Both my seekers and grinder makes it into assault. I get a 12" charge for my seekers and they barely make it in!


Wraiths and warboss finish off my grinder.

Daemons: 2, Necrorks: 1


Seekers hit a lot of orks thanks to Prescience but fails to wound with the majority. I kill 12 orks in total. They then retaliate and kill 6 seekers.


Only 1 wraith survives as I wipe out 1 of the 2 units of wraiths in combat. My Warlord consolidates.

Daemons: 3, Necrorks: 1




Necrorks 3

Spoiler:
Right now, my opponent is starting to feel the pressure. Things didn't go quite as he had expected. I've taken out almost 2 units of wraiths as well as his Warlord. I've also taken down 1 of his flyers and both of my FMC's are still around (though my DP is wounded).

He's only killed 1 soulgrinder so far. However, things are not as bad as it seems. Now he's got my 2 troops and heralds that his wraiths and warboss can go after. Despite his heavy losses, he is still in a prime position to cause some major damage to my troops.


Warriors from his downed night scythe comes in from reserves.


His other night scythe lands on top of the central impassable terrain. Since we are using the BAO rules (and FAQ's), that means his night scythe can shoot straight down at my Warlord.


Biker warboss goes after my....seekers.


This may hurt....


Shootas boys are going to try to tie up my Warlord for the rest of the game.


Their shooting fails to do any damage. They then assault.


As do the wraiths.


Because he will be striking last, his warboss decides to assault my seekers instead of my grinder.


Impact hits kill 6 horrors!


Wraiths then wipe out the horrors as well as one herald! Ouch!

Daemons: 3, Necrorks: 3


In combat, daemons actually beat the orks 6-4. Orks are barely fearless (or they roll insanely low on their morale test) but his warboss fails and runs.


Orks actually put 2W on my Warlord. In return, I kill 5 boys.


The biggest surprise, however, is that his wraith makes all his saves against my insta-killing DP!!!

That was HUGE for my opponent. He caught a big break. Otherwise, my DP would be on his wraiths again next turn.




Daemons 3

Spoiler:

I do something unconventional this turn. I split up the herald from the unit. The horrors then go to screen out the wraiths (like that's going to do any good! ).


Herald then shoots down his biker warboss.

Daemons: 4, Necrorks: 3

Horrors then try to shoot down his night scythe but fail miserably.

BTW, I forget when, but SabrX must have shot down my Portaglyph, most likely on Turn 2.


In another surprising turn of events, my Warlord is able to kill enough orks to bring them down below Fearless and I then sweep the entire unit.

Daemons: 5, Necrorks: 3


My DP, who is at T8, finishes off the lone wraith.

Daemons: 6, Necrorks: 3


Finally, orks kill off my seeker and my grinder kills 3 orks. They would pass morale.

Daemons: 6, Necrorks: 4

So now I've got both FMC's free and SabrX has basically 6 wraiths left along with 2 troops (1 in his flyer and the other on his home objective). Things are looking grim for the necrorks. He can make the smart play by wiping out my last unit of troops (and possibly multi-charge my herald as well for 2 VP's). Or he can make a risky play and go after my much more dangerous FMC's.

Which do you think he will do?




Necrorks 4

Spoiler:

SabrX decides to take the more difficult way. He goes after my Warlord with his wraiths.


Assault....


This time he manages to roll well and bring down my Warlord.

Daemons: 6, Necrorks: 5

More importantly, he is able to get out of LOS of my DP to avoid Enfeeble.




Daemons 4

Spoiler:

DP goes after his wraiths. I only get +1A and +1T this time. Herald rejoins the horrors. This is where I make my last stand. Wipe out the wraiths and I will most likely take the game. Lose and my opponent probably will. He is fortunate that my DP is only at S7 currently so cannot insta-kill his wraiths without smashing.


Shooting by my horrors kill off 3 wraiths. Imagine if they were Enfeebled!

So now I've only got to kill 3 wraiths in combat. However, assault is not without its risks. My DP is only at T6 and he's only got 1W remaining.


For the glory of Tzeentch!


NOT!!!

Daemons: 6, Necrorks: 6


3 more orks remaining. Once again, they manage to pass morale!




Necrorks 5

Spoiler:

Time for the end-game. Night scythe drops his warriors onto my objective. SabrX also secures Linebreaker with them.


2 wraiths against my horrors.


Necron shooting takes out 3 horrors.


Combat, impact hits and Daemonic Instability results in 5 dead horrors, including my herald.

Daemons: 6, Necrorks: 7


At least my grinder is able to finish off his orks.

Daemons: 7, Necrorks: 7




Daemons 5

Spoiler:

All of a sudden, I'm behind.

But I can still win....if only I can finish off his wraiths. I do that and I've got this game in the bag. Otherwise, I think SabrX will win this.


The Battle for Marneus Calgar! Grinder assaults into combat. Wraiths make their Invuln's and kill 1 horror. In return, horrors put 1W on his wraiths. Noooooo!!!!!

Daemons: 7, Necrorks: 7

Game ends. We are tied in the Primary 7-7 in VP's.



Necrorks takes the Secondary (the Scouring) 2 objectives to 0 (4-pts vs 2-pts).

I have First Blood and Warlord. My opponent has Warlord and Linebreaker.

Necrorks win it 5-2.



Crushing Victory by Metallic Waaaaaghhh!!!





-------------------------------------------------------------------


POST-GAME ANALYSIS:

Spoiler:
Daemons:
Whoa....did I really fail 4 Grimoire tests in a row!?! That really goes to show just how dangerous the new daemons are. Don't expect them to fold if just 1 or 2 dice doesn't go their way. It can hurt them, but daemons are much more resilient than most people think. They can absorb some punishment and still be a threat despite some bad dice. This game genuinely surprised me. I thought I would have much more trouble with SabrX's Necrorks, but it turned out to be the other way around. I also made the mistake of splitting up my Herald from his unit to go after 2 targets (the night scythe and his biker warboss) instead of sticking together to go after his wraiths. Despite that mistake, I was still in a good position to win the game. This game shows to me that the new daemons are for real. They are a truly dangerous army and can compete with any army. The random nature of the army may hurt them, but it'll take more than a couple of bad dice to really hurt them. And if all goes well with their random abilities, I believe that there is NO army that they can't beat.

Despite the performance of my daemons, SabrX played really well in this game. I think one of the keys to victory for him was to avoid Enfeeble from my DP. If I had gotten off Enfeeble on his wraiths, there is not doubt that I would have crippled them with my shooting and that would have made a huge difference in the game. He also took a huge gamble going after my Warlord with his wraiths rather than my horrors. Going after the horrors would have wiped out my troops and also netted him 2 VP's (for my troops and my Herald). However, he went after the much more dangerous Warlord and succeeded in taking him out. Otherwise, next turn I would have been on him with my Warlord and Daemon Prince.

I am pleased with the performance of my daemons, but the next time we fight, I may just bring a more competitive daemon army. Here's looking at you, Tzeentch.


Necrorks: (by SabrX)
This was certainly a close match. Wow that Daemon Prince is a real wrecking ball! I still can't believe both Daemon FMC took 2 units of Wraiths, my Destroyer Lord, and Orks without dying. In the end, it was the 3rd Wraith unit that won me the match. The manage to take out a Soul Grinder, a unit of Pink Horrors, both heralds, Daemon Prince, and Lord of Change! On top of that, they contested the objective granting me a win. That single unit of wraiths definitely deserve MVP title in this game.

Luck was a factor in this game. Turn 1, Jy2's Portaglyph didn't spawn any troops. I killed it with a Night Scythe on turn 2. Jy2 failed every single Grimoire roll. To balance it out, Jy2 passed almost every single psychic test in this game and only once I deny the witch. Lord of Change passed both MSS test and bested the Destroyer Lord in combat. The Daemon Prince instant killed a lot of Wraiths.

The Orks didn't do terribly bad. They manage to beat the Seekers and tie up the Soul Grinder in assault. They also diverted the Lord of Change away from the 3rd unit of Wraiths.

Overall, I really like Necron + Ork combo.

Even thought the Daemons lost, I do agree they are very formidable. The Daemon Prince alone cost more than a Land Raider, but it does an insane amount of damage in assault. The Pink Horrors can dish out high volume of St6 shooting. While the Portaglyph didn't play a major role in this game, I can definitely see it being nuisance if left unguarded. The Soul Grinders are really hard to kill. I really like the new Daemons codex. It certainly has the necessary elements to compete at a high level.




This message was edited 16 times. Last update was at 2013/04/22 05:58:25



6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
ATC 2013 - Team Fluffy Bunnies - 1st .....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
7th Edition: 2015-16 ITC Best Grey Knights, 2015-16 ITC Best Tyranids
Jy2's 6th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links.....Jy2's 7th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links
 
   
Made in us
Inexperienced VF-1A Valkyrie Brownie





What am I missing that the Orks add to this Necron army?

I think it detracts from having the second DLord, 3 annihiliation barges and at least 2 more flyers....you'd have to drop 4 or the wraiths to do that, but the scythes are more worth it, and the DLords really only benefit 2 squads of wraiths.

I think the 2 squads of boyz will be shot to pieces by this uber-shooty Daemons list....and the biker warlord doesn't boost the wraiths, he merely lets them soak up wounds for him on his way to HTH.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

SabrX just likes Orks. He's added orks to his Tau and now he wants to add orks to my necrons. I think it is just a trend with him.

But seriously, orks just give the necrons a huge ground presence. They also help to add a lot of pressure for 18 wraiths followed by 60 boys and can absorb a lot of firepower. I need to pick my poison - thin out his orks and let 18 wraiths pounce on my units or fire at his wraiths and get my FMC's tied up by 60 boys, thus allowing his wraiths to go-to-town on the rest of my army.



6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
ATC 2013 - Team Fluffy Bunnies - 1st .....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
7th Edition: 2015-16 ITC Best Grey Knights, 2015-16 ITC Best Tyranids
Jy2's 6th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links.....Jy2's 7th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





This is far scarier than extra Cron shooting. The bodies give him the ability to capture and secure objectives. I think that the Ork list is quite formidable.

Bee beep boo baap 
   
Made in us
Inexperienced VF-1A Valkyrie Brownie





I agree that SabrX's TOrks worked really well, and complemented each other greatly. I'm interested to see how this battle goes.

@ LValx I think it dilutes the Cron list, and he'd still have 7 scoring units, but way more Tesla and the second DLord turns a unit of wraiths into a Deathstar, not just an above average assault unit. But we'll see as this plays out!
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I disagree, I think 6th edition puts an emphasis on having durable units that can score. Necrons don't have easy access to numbers (which IMO is the best approach), Orks alleviate that, while providing good shooting and above average combat ability.

Bee beep boo baap 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Bay Area

Here's a bit of my pre-game analysis Jy2. Feel free to add this in addition to your existing pre-game analysis.

Based on prior games (before this game) with and against Jy2's Necrons, I find Necron's major weakness is fragile scoring units. While a min-Warrior squad inside a Night Scythe has the best mobility compared to other scoring units in the game, they can't make a move until objectives are clear. All the while, existing Necron forces takes a pounding from the bulk of enemy shooting/attacks forces that aren't in reserves.

Trading a couple units of min-Warriors in Night Scythes for a couple Boyz squad seems to be a good trade off. Its not totally relinquishing Necron mobile scoring units. There will needs to be a compulsory 2 troop units for the Necrons. Shoota Boyz provides more ground presence and could lend their support to the Wraiths.

While my list isn't well rounded, it should pack enough raw power to deal with most popular builds. Having Ever-living Res-orb for the Destroyer Lord lessens the risk of my opponent scoring Slay the Warlord. Also, conventional Ork army's weakness is lack of mobile scoring units. A typical Ork player would place his/her objectives 12" away from opposing objectives. With Necron ally, that shouldn't be a problem.

This will be my first time facing the new Daemons. When Jy2 gave me the run down of his list prior to the game, I was surprised by the amount of psykers it contained. It seems more overwhelming compared to Jy2's Nids.

I'll have to watch out for the Portaglyph. Free scoring unit generator can be pretty nasty. It's also impossible to create a contingency plan against the Warp Storm. That bit of randomness could be either helpful, or devastating.

While my list do contain 7 scoring units, it also makes the Wraiths a bigger target. Scouring works both ways. Every Fast Attack unit killed counts toward the secondary objective.

   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan






State of Jefferson

UPDATE !!!!!! I'm anxious to hear about this one...

also... is that a real turtle? What's his stat line? Fast Attack? Squigoth?

Watch out for Salmonella... You play dirty. With that thing wiggling around on your toys it's like chemical warfare.

G
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

@SabrX

Thanks. I've added it to the Pre-game.


LValx wrote:
This is far scarier than extra Cron shooting. The bodies give him the ability to capture and secure objectives. I think that the Ork list is quite formidable.

I wouldn't say it's scarier, just different. Those 2 lists are trying to achieve 2 different things. Necrorks will do better against some armies and Tesla crons will do better against others.


 Salacious Greed wrote:
I agree that SabrX's TOrks worked really well, and complemented each other greatly. I'm interested to see how this battle goes.

@ LValx I think it dilutes the Cron list, and he'd still have 7 scoring units, but way more Tesla and the second DLord turns a unit of wraiths into a Deathstar, not just an above average assault unit. But we'll see as this plays out!


I believe SabrX's necrorks are build with more resiliency in mind whereas a pure necron army like my Wraithwing Tesla-crons is more focused on a balanced attack with assault and shooting. Both are good, however, I think my list will be more consistent because it is a more balanced list.

But if you are running necrorks, you are doing it more for its playstyle than you are for its balance.


 doktor_g wrote:
UPDATE !!!!!! I'm anxious to hear about this one...

also... is that a real turtle? What's his stat line? Fast Attack? Squigoth?

Watch out for Salmonella... You play dirty. With that thing wiggling around on your toys it's like chemical warfare.

G

No, it isn't real. However, it can poop out daemons every turn.

It's my Porta-potty....no, I mean, my Portaglyph.




6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
ATC 2013 - Team Fluffy Bunnies - 1st .....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
7th Edition: 2015-16 ITC Best Grey Knights, 2015-16 ITC Best Tyranids
Jy2's 6th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links.....Jy2's 7th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links
 
   
Made in be
Black Templar Recruit Undergoing Surgeries






So it's basically your Tervigon for this game? With 2 FMCs and lots of psychic powers, did you try to make a list as close as possible to your standard Tyranid built?

Anyway, I'm very curious about the outcome of this one!
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

 Hammernator wrote:
So it's basically your Tervigon for this game? With 2 FMCs and lots of psychic powers, did you try to make a list as close as possible to your standard Tyranid built?

Anyway, I'm very curious about the outcome of this one!

No, other than the 2 flying HQ's and the emphasis on psychic powers, this list is nothing like my tyranids IMO. I actually designed it based on what I felt was strong in the daemon codex, not because I wanted a similar army to my tyranids.

It just happened that both lists had some similar elements to them.



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San Jose, CA


Battle report completed.



BTW, I need a name for my Tzeentch-Slaanesh daemons. Help?


This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/04/20 15:41:12



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"For the Glory of Tzeentch!" "Not!" lol that made me laugh. Great report guys I was really surprised by this outcome.

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Good battle report. I havent ever played against demons it looks like they are quite unpredictable. Do you think
you could have tried to use the FMCs to just vector strike the scythes to prevent his getting LB? I know they were tied up by wraiths for much of the game but as as that is something necron players depend on, do you feel taking it away would have been worth the effort/resources?

Also for the army name. Im gonna suggest either:
T-Pain and his purple rain or
Pinkies and the T-Pain

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 jy2 wrote:

Battle report completed.



BTW, I need a name for my Tzeentch-Slaanesh daemons. Help?




Slaatzeentch or Tzeenesh

Maybe Magic Touch demons

IDK

   
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Sunnyvale, CA

Awesome battle report as usual!

I really liked the Objective marker = Heroes of The Imperium! It is hilarious how one of the most feared HQs in the game, Draigo, has been relegated to being a single point objective that no one was even occupying at the start of the game! Oh how much he has fallen!

I was amazed at how quickly the two armies engaged each other in assault! If this was Tau against either one of you the Tau would be in some serious trouble as both of you can close down distances quickly!

It was refreshing to see a battle report where the Daemons didn't auto-loose. 1st place in BAO or not the new Daemon codex has left me with the impression that it is lacking for raw strength, so it is good to see it put up a great fight!

Finally, how did you talk SabrX into playing with Necrons, I would have assumed that he would field his Tau!?

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San Jose, CA

 y0disisray wrote:
"For the Glory of Tzeentch!" "Not!" lol that made me laugh. Great report guys I was really surprised by this outcome.

Yeah, me too.

I thought that SabrX was going to obliterate me. Lol. I was actually surprised I was ahead most of the game and was actually in a good position to win it.


Polythemus wrote:
Good battle report. I havent ever played against demons it looks like they are quite unpredictable. Do you think
you could have tried to use the FMCs to just vector strike the scythes to prevent his getting LB? I know they were tied up by wraiths for much of the game but as as that is something necron players depend on, do you feel taking it away would have been worth the effort/resources?

Also for the army name. Im gonna suggest either:
T-Pain and his purple rain or
Pinkies and the T-Pain

The new daemons are quite strong. There is some unpredictability in their army, but don't count on that to win you the game against them. Your army needs to be able to handle the multiple fast threats that a daemon army can put right in front of you ready to assault on Turn 2.

Vector-striking the scythes is a waste of time. I couldn't ignore his wraiths and troops. They are target priority #1. In addition, the wraiths were scoring and were worth VP's. Thus, I had to direct all of my limited resources against them. After I tie them up in combat, then let my S6 twin-linked pink horrors deal with his flyers. Unfortunately, my grinder just couldn't tie up his wraiths and warboss and they broke free.

T-Pain, Purple Rain....interesting names. I especially like Purple Rain. I will take it into consideration. Thanks.


 Red Corsair wrote:

Slaatzeentch or Tzeenesh

Maybe Magic Touch demons

IDK

Thanks for the try, but I'm gonna pass on those.


 Kingsley wrote:
Dude, did you make that custom St. Celestine? That's one of the coolest models I've ever seen!

That custom St. Celestine was actually purchased by SabrX. I believe it was sculpted by a Golden Daemon winner and was featured on Cool Mini or Not. It is an awesome figure.


 Grey Therion wrote:
Awesome battle report as usual!

I really liked the Objective marker = Heroes of The Imperium! It is hilarious how one of the most feared HQs in the game, Draigo, has been relegated to being a single point objective that no one was even occupying at the start of the game! Oh how much he has fallen!

I was amazed at how quickly the two armies engaged each other in assault! If this was Tau against either one of you the Tau would be in some serious trouble as both of you can close down distances quickly!

It was refreshing to see a battle report where the Daemons didn't auto-loose. 1st place in BAO or not the new Daemon codex has left me with the impression that it is lacking for raw strength, so it is good to see it put up a great fight!

Finally, how did you talk SabrX into playing with Necrons, I would have assumed that he would field his Tau!?

This game was actually played before the new Tau came out. SabrX has always been interested in a fast assault army. It didn't take any persuasion on my part to get him to play Necrorks. I was actually expecting him to break out his Torks but instead, he told me that he would be needing my 18 wraiths, D-lord and 2 night scythes + troops!

I was thinking about busting out my Heroes of Chaos but only had 2 - Abbadon and Typhus. Thus we just made it the Heroes of the Astartes vs the Heroes of the Ordos.

Yeah, combat happens very quickly when you have 2 ultra-fast assault armies going up together. Both of our armies want to be in assault and as per my philosophy, I wasn't about to let my opponent control the middle. BTW, daemons don't autolose. As a matter of fact, I think they will be winning a lot of games. The new daemons can be very good. The average game may see 1 or 2 bad breaks/rolls for them (i.e. Warp Storm, Grimoire, etc.) but when they get their rolls going, there is NO army that they can't beat.


BaconUprising wrote:
What model are you using for your daemon prince?

It's the dragon from the Final Fantasy Action Figure series. He looks so cool that I decided to use him over my actual DP model. And he seems very Tzeentchy also - a Tzeentch dragon!



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The problem with Daemon lists is that all their offensive power is in their FMCs, which are a lot squishier than people give them credit for.

Once the FMCs go down (and they will) you sort of lose all your options,, as this game demonstrates. Even a roll of 3 on the Warp Storm table can do you in.
Then again, it probably hinged on the Enfeeble roll.


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San Jose, CA

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
The problem with Daemon lists is that all their offensive power is in their FMCs, which are a lot squishier than people give them credit for.

Once the FMCs go down (and they will) you sort of lose all your options,, as this game demonstrates. Even a roll of 3 on the Warp Storm table can do you in.
Then again, it probably hinged on the Enfeeble roll.


Yeah, they will live and die by their FMC's, just like tyranids will live and die by their flyrants. However, in my lists, I try to put a little more balance into them by adding soulgrinders and the seekers. Also, the pink horrors are a huge threat as well with their shooting. Although I've only got 2 troops in this list, IMO it is still more balanced than my FMC-spam daemons because it doesn't rely solely on FMC's to carry the burden.

Enfeeble would have been huge, but my opponent did a good job keeping his wraiths out of LOS of my DP.



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Bay Area

This was certainly a close match. Wow that Daemon Prince is a real wrecking ball! I still can't believe both Daemon FMC took 2 units of Wraiths, my Destroyer Lord, and Orks without dying. In the end, it was the 3rd Wraith unit that won me the match. The manage to take out a Soul Grinder, a unit of Pink Horrors, both heralds, Daemon Prince, and Lord of Change! On top of that, they contested the objective granting me a win. That single unit of wraiths definitely deserve MVP title in this game.

Luck was a factor in this game. Turn 1, Jy2's Portaglyph didn't spawn any troops. I killed it with a Night Scythe on turn 2. Jy2 failed every single Grimoire roll. To balance it out, Jy2 passed almost every single psychic test in this game and only once I deny the witch. Lord of Change passed both MSS test and bested the Destroyer Lord in combat. The Daemon Prince instant killed a lot of Wraiths.

The Orks didn't do terribly bad. They manage to beat the Seekers and tie up the Soul Grinder in assault. They also diverted the Lord of Change away from the 3rd unit of Wraiths.

Overall, I really like Necron + Ork combo.

Even thought the Daemons lost, I do agree they are very formidable. The Daemon Prince alone cost more than a Land Raider, but it does an insane amount of damage in assault. The Pink Horrors can dish out high volume of St6 shooting. While the Portaglyph didn't play a major role in this game, I can definitely see it being nuisance if left unguarded. The Soul Grinders are really hard to kill. I really like the new Daemons codex. It certainly has the necessary elements to compete at a high level.

 Kingsley wrote:
Dude, did you make that custom St. Celestine? That's one of the coolest models I've ever seen!


I won the custom St. Celestine model off Ebay. According to the seller, it was commissioned by famous sculptor, who now owns an online business selling miniatures. The custom St. Celestine model used to be on coolminiornot.com, but was mysteriously taken down around the same time I won the auction. I won't disclose the name of the sculptor in case he/she took down the model off coolminiornot.com for reasons only known to him/her. The sculptor in question doesn't do commissions anymore and hardly releases female models on their website. One of these days, I plan to have the custom Saint Celestine model painted by a Golden Daemon award artist.

 Grey Therion wrote:
Awesome battle report as usual!

Finally, how did you talk SabrX into playing with Necrons, I would have assumed that he would field his Tau!?


Jy2 is currently borrowing all my Tau models. I'm too busy finishing up my last semester.

No 40k for me until finals are done!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/21 05:34:44


   
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Greater Manchester, UK

Really fun-looking battle - it's always enjoyable when both sides get a lot of surprises.

And looking at that Daemons list I didn't think they'd be nearly as scary as they turned out to be.

Thanks for posting!

"A human being is a part of a whole, called by us _universe_, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest... a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty." - A.E.
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Jy2, try lesser rewards on the DP's, as they are Tzeentch you can chose the staff of change as a default choice, it is plus 2 str meaning you are now str 8 always. Your DP is pretty much how I run mine.

As for the horrors, today (in 1k point mini tourny) I was running 3 lvl 3 heralds one with locus of conjuration, two with exalted rewards, one was grimoure other was portalglpyh (except on kill points) with 20 horrors. 2 powers each for the heralds on divination means you should get at least 1 prescience and perfect timing/misfortune/forewarning. Add to the fact if all 4 psyhic test goes off and 4 DTW failed, you can have up 15d6 of prescienced shots, and minus 1d6 basically for each other power cast so a prescinced perfect timing with forewarning squad would be 13d6 of shots, and all the herald shooting is presicion on 6's. Also useful against flyers. I managed to over kill quite a few units with that squad today.

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 jy2 wrote:
Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
The problem with Daemon lists is that all their offensive power is in their FMCs, which are a lot squishier than people give them credit for.

Once the FMCs go down (and they will) you sort of lose all your options,, as this game demonstrates. Even a roll of 3 on the Warp Storm table can do you in.
Then again, it probably hinged on the Enfeeble roll.


Yeah, they will live and die by their FMC's, just like tyranids will live and die by their flyrants. However, in my lists, I try to put a little more balance into them by adding soulgrinders and the seekers. Also, the pink horrors are a huge threat as well with their shooting. Although I've only got 2 troops in this list, IMO it is still more balanced than my FMC-spam daemons because it doesn't rely solely on FMC's to carry the burden.

Enfeeble would have been huge, but my opponent did a good job keeping his wraiths out of LOS of my DP.


Nids dont live and die by Flyrants. While they may be one of the better units, I'd say the Tervigon is the lynchpin. Also, Swarmlord is quite competitive (as MVBrandt showed at BFS), I myself prefer 1 of each as well.


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 jy2 wrote:
Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
The problem with Daemon lists is that all their offensive power is in their FMCs, which are a lot squishier than people give them credit for.

Once the FMCs go down (and they will) you sort of lose all your options,, as this game demonstrates. Even a roll of 3 on the Warp Storm table can do you in.
Then again, it probably hinged on the Enfeeble roll.


Yeah, they will live and die by their FMC's, just like tyranids will live and die by their flyrants. However, in my lists, I try to put a little more balance into them by adding soulgrinders and the seekers. Also, the pink horrors are a huge threat as well with their shooting. Although I've only got 2 troops in this list, IMO it is still more balanced than my FMC-spam daemons because it doesn't rely solely on FMC's to carry the burden.

Enfeeble would have been huge, but my opponent did a good job keeping his wraiths out of LOS of my DP.



Nids do have other strong pure offensive options like the Doom of Malantai and Dakkafex drops, and Flyrant shooting is far more reliable and Str 6 compared to FMC daemon shooting.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
MarkyMark wrote:
Jy2, try lesser rewards on the DP's, as they are Tzeentch you can chose the staff of change as a default choice, it is plus 2 str meaning you are now str 8 always. Your DP is pretty much how I run mine.

As for the horrors, today (in 1k point mini tourny) I was running 3 lvl 3 heralds one with locus of conjuration, two with exalted rewards, one was grimoure other was portalglpyh (except on kill points) with 20 horrors. 2 powers each for the heralds on divination means you should get at least 1 prescience and perfect timing/misfortune/forewarning. Add to the fact if all 4 psyhic test goes off and 4 DTW failed, you can have up 15d6 of prescienced shots, and minus 1d6 basically for each other power cast so a prescinced perfect timing with forewarning squad would be 13d6 of shots, and all the herald shooting is presicion on 6's. Also useful against flyers. I managed to over kill quite a few units with that squad today.


I still think putting 550 points in a single blob squad which can shoot one target at 24" at max str 6 and has no cc to speak of is a terrible idea.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/04/22 03:35:49


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San Jose, CA

POST-GAME ANALYSIS:

Daemons:
Whoa....did I really fail 4 Grimoire tests in a row!?! That really goes to show just how dangerous the new daemons are. Don't expect them to fold if just 1 or 2 dice doesn't go their way. It can hurt them, but daemons are much more resilient than most people think. They can absorb some punishment and still be a threat despite some bad dice. This game genuinely surprised me. I thought I would have much more trouble with SabrX's Necrorks, but it turned out to be the other way around. I also made the mistake of splitting up my Herald from his unit to go after 2 targets (the night scythe and his biker warboss) instead of sticking together to go after his wraiths. Despite that mistake, I was still in a good position to win the game. This game shows to me that the new daemons are for real. They are a truly dangerous army and can compete with any army. The random nature of the army may hurt them, but it'll take more than a couple of bad dice to really hurt them. And if all goes well with their random abilities, I believe that there is NO army that they can't beat.

Despite the performance of my daemons, SabrX played really well in this game. I think one of the keys to victory for him was to avoid Enfeeble from my DP. If I had gotten off Enfeeble on his wraiths, there is not doubt that I would have crippled them with my shooting and that would have made a huge difference in the game. He also took a huge gamble going after my Warlord with his wraiths rather than my horrors. Going after the horrors would have wiped out my troops and also netted him 2 VP's (for my troops and my Herald). However, he went after the much more dangerous Warlord and succeeded in taking him out. Otherwise, next turn I would have been on him with my Warlord and Daemon Prince.

I am pleased with the performance of my daemons, but the next time we fight, I may just bring a more competitive daemon army. Here's looking at you, Tzeentch.


Necrorks: (by SabrX)
This was certainly a close match. Wow that Daemon Prince is a real wrecking ball! I still can't believe both Daemon FMC took 2 units of Wraiths, my Destroyer Lord, and Orks without dying. In the end, it was the 3rd Wraith unit that won me the match. The manage to take out a Soul Grinder, a unit of Pink Horrors, both heralds, Daemon Prince, and Lord of Change! On top of that, they contested the objective granting me a win. That single unit of wraiths definitely deserve MVP title in this game.

Luck was a factor in this game. Turn 1, Jy2's Portaglyph didn't spawn any troops. I killed it with a Night Scythe on turn 2. Jy2 failed every single Grimoire roll. To balance it out, Jy2 passed almost every single psychic test in this game and only once I deny the witch. Lord of Change passed both MSS test and bested the Destroyer Lord in combat. The Daemon Prince instant killed a lot of Wraiths.

The Orks didn't do terribly bad. They manage to beat the Seekers and tie up the Soul Grinder in assault. They also diverted the Lord of Change away from the 3rd unit of Wraiths.

Overall, I really like Necron + Ork combo.

Even thought the Daemons lost, I do agree they are very formidable. The Daemon Prince alone cost more than a Land Raider, but it does an insane amount of damage in assault. The Pink Horrors can dish out high volume of St6 shooting. While the Portaglyph didn't play a major role in this game, I can definitely see it being nuisance if left unguarded. The Soul Grinders are really hard to kill. I really like the new Daemons codex. It certainly has the necessary elements to compete at a high level.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/22 05:58:56



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San Jose, CA

 Captain Roderick wrote:
Really fun-looking battle - it's always enjoyable when both sides get a lot of surprises.

And looking at that Daemons list I didn't think they'd be nearly as scary as they turned out to be.

Thanks for posting!

They're not obviously powerful, but they can surprise some armies with their synergy and resilience. It is one of those armies that is easy to under-estimate but that can be very good.

Of course, part of that may be due to my generalship....


MarkyMark wrote:
Jy2, try lesser rewards on the DP's, as they are Tzeentch you can chose the staff of change as a default choice, it is plus 2 str meaning you are now str 8 always. Your DP is pretty much how I run mine.

As for the horrors, today (in 1k point mini tourny) I was running 3 lvl 3 heralds one with locus of conjuration, two with exalted rewards, one was grimoure other was portalglpyh (except on kill points) with 20 horrors. 2 powers each for the heralds on divination means you should get at least 1 prescience and perfect timing/misfortune/forewarning. Add to the fact if all 4 psyhic test goes off and 4 DTW failed, you can have up 15d6 of prescienced shots, and minus 1d6 basically for each other power cast so a prescinced perfect timing with forewarning squad would be 13d6 of shots, and all the herald shooting is presicion on 6's. Also useful against flyers. I managed to over kill quite a few units with that squad today.

I like the Staff of Change as well. However, I just couldn't fit them in without either cutting some horrors or the seekers. Thus, I chose more models (and thus more shots) over the increased strength.

Yeah, horror shooting (with a Herald) can be stupid good. That's actually one of the strengths of this list - its shooting. Many people think that daemons are all about assault. Well, they are actually all about multiple threats and shooting is also a threat that cannot be avoided. Shooting also helps to make a daemon army more balanced.


LValx wrote:

Nids dont live and die by Flyrants. While they may be one of the better units, I'd say the Tervigon is the lynchpin. Also, Swarmlord is quite competitive (as MVBrandt showed at BFS), I myself prefer 1 of each as well.


In a way, they do IMO. They can still win without the flyrants....it's just that much harder to do. Taking out the flyrants takes out 2 major strategic elements of the tyranid army - the focal point of their offense and also their mobility. Without their flyrants, you are looking at a really uphill battle. They may beat the less skilled players or the mediocre lists, but it's much, much harder to do so against a good tournament player with a good list.

The Swarmlord is good in his own way, but IMO he is not as all-purpose a unit as the flyrant. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a Swarmlord-flyrant tyranid army do as well as a dual-flyrant tyranid build over a series of games as you would find in a GT environment.


Asmodai Asmodean wrote:

Nids do have other strong pure offensive options like the Doom of Malantai and Dakkafex drops, and Flyrant shooting is far more reliable and Str 6 compared to FMC daemon shooting.

While that may be true, the flyrant is the most versatile unit in the codex. Excellent mobility, good shooting, decent assault, synapse/shadows and a psyker as well, there is no single unit in the tyranid codex that can replace the flyrant. The best units in the game are either the force-multipliers or the more versatile units. Flyrants are both.

MarkyMark wrote:
Jy2, try lesser rewards on the DP's, as they are Tzeentch you can chose the staff of change as a default choice, it is plus 2 str meaning you are now str 8 always. Your DP is pretty much how I run mine.

As for the horrors, today (in 1k point mini tourny) I was running 3 lvl 3 heralds one with locus of conjuration, two with exalted rewards, one was grimoure other was portalglpyh (except on kill points) with 20 horrors. 2 powers each for the heralds on divination means you should get at least 1 prescience and perfect timing/misfortune/forewarning. Add to the fact if all 4 psyhic test goes off and 4 DTW failed, you can have up 15d6 of prescienced shots, and minus 1d6 basically for each other power cast so a prescinced perfect timing with forewarning squad would be 13d6 of shots, and all the herald shooting is presicion on 6's. Also useful against flyers. I managed to over kill quite a few units with that squad today.


I still think putting 550 points in a single blob squad which can shoot one target at 24" at max str 6 and has no cc to speak of is a terrible idea.

Are you talking about the herald + pink horrors? They're only 330 pts max with Lvl 3 psyker and an Exalted gift. They have good shooting and are a caddy for Exalted gifts like the Grimoire or Portaglyph. More importantly, however, they are a force multiplier unit. Forewarning is an awesome power which can be made to give a unit 2++ when combined with the Grimoire. Perfect Timing can be used to wipe out enemy units with 4+ saves or worse. Prescience can also be cast on other units (i.e. seekers, flesh hounds, FMC's) to make them much more deadly in combat. The way I look at it, each psyker in the army is a force-multiplier that makes another unit (or itself) much, much better.



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Greater Manchester, UK

 jy2 wrote:
They're not obviously powerful, but they can surprise some armies with their synergy and resilience. It is one of those armies that is easy to under-estimate but that can be very good.

Of course, part of that may be due to my generalship....



Very modest of you but yes, you built the list, it suits how you play and, like Shaka Zulu forging his magic spear, fights best in your hand.

"A human being is a part of a whole, called by us _universe_, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest... a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty." - A.E.
"And if perchance I have offended, think but this and all is mended. We'd as well be 10 minutes back in time for all the chance you'll change your mind."
Cap'n R's Necro and =I=munda Plog 
   
 
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