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Hey guys, i really love the SG models but have not purchased them as i cant justify taking them in 1k (or 1500) matches (which is main level we play in local area). So, does anyone have good stories, with them, recommend them or have a particular build they are fond of? I prefer fast and aggressive armies, that ca also take a few hits so adding a priest might be the way to go, however I4 really hurts them i think.

SG were pretty poor in 5th when all power weapons could go through their armor, but with the power weapon changes and the faq for them, they got pretty good. Yes, AP2 eats then, but jump inf with 2+ saves with master crafted weapons are pretty darn strong.

Personally, id run 2 squad of them with 2x fusion pistols. Run them up one side of the board with some assault squads with a priest in the middle. Dont attach an IC to the sang guard as it just makes them too much of a target and they often overkill the squad.

Nice thing about changing power weapons is that you can get suck in with a power sword IC or termy pretty easily by just using your swords. Then during their assault phase, switch to axes and break combat, then move on.

For their cost, they are quite good, especially if you can get FNP on them from a nearby SP (dont put the SP in the squad, they will again draw too much fire). They arent godlike, nor amazing, but they are above average.

 zephoid wrote:

Nice thing about changing power weapons is that you can get suck in with a power sword IC or termy pretty easily by just using your swords. Then during their assault phase, switch to axes and break combat, then move on.

I don't believe you can switch them out without changing the appearance of the model just like other power weapons. It's not like the glaive can use both profiles, the axe must use the axe profile and the sword the sword profile.

 Griddlelol wrote:

 zephoid wrote:

Nice thing about changing power weapons is that you can get suck in with a power sword IC or termy pretty easily by just using your swords. Then during their assault phase, switch to axes and break combat, then move on.

I don't believe you can switch them out without changing the appearance of the model just like other power weapons. It's not like the glaive can use both profiles, the axe must use the axe profile and the sword the sword profile.

Yeah, I thought these guys had some potential based on a similar misreading of the FAQ, but Griddle is right: each SG model has to have one or the other, presumably based on WYSIWYG (though, you know, friends let friends proxy and all).

Even based on that misreading, though, SG kind of suck. They have regular veteran stats, their guns have very short range, and they are less survivable than terminators (who are already too easy to kill). You're paying a serious price for some guys who a) will not make it into combat and b) won't do much even if they do.

If you want very expensive jump infantry, you're better off with Death Company, who are also not super great (especially with those over priced jump packs), but at least DC, when they DO get a charge, will kill whoever they hit.

I think the SG are better than the DC given all possible scenarios. They come with more gear, and are better at receiving charges.

Killing whomever they hit has limited utility against a good opponent, the only kind I care about strategizing for.

SG come with more gear, but it is not demonstrably better gear. AP4 is effectively the same as AP5, so the gun isn't better, and they have the MC power weapons, but with far fewer attacks that hit less often. Also, DC have the innate FNP, and will suffer less from pre-charge shooting casualties due to a higher model count. I'm not suggesting either be used, but I am reasonably sure DC are better.

Also, while DC are stealth elites, as you say, they aren't ACTUAL elites. Taking SG precludes you from using all three elite choices to actually do something.

My new philosophy for BA is:"If I can get into H2H, I consider it a bonus" - I now build m BA lists as shooty, If CC happens, then its the icing on the cake

All that said, I like them with plasma pistols as a shooty unit. they can deep strike, only scatter d6 and roast something. I usually add a power fist to one guy as anti tank, he doesnt get an upgraded pistol.

Also there is the Dante bomb (gimmick imo) add dante, buy inferno pistols, Deep strike and then barbeque. (expect dante and squad to die for revenge)

It's still hard for me to give the nod to DC given their mobility issues and necessity of assault. They are both underwhelming for the investment.

The Dante bomb is best used with an Honour Guard - using SG for it is an expensive waste. Rather, the only reason to take Dante AND SG is if you're planning on running a whole army of them as Troops (which is a pretty good option, by the way).

I feel the 2+ save is being understated on a unit that can easily find its way into cover each turn. They are a great unit on their own, but expensive - however if you take them as an extra unit in a force that's already geared for assault, they can easily tip the balance further in your favour.

If you have the points and inclination, taking the Sanguinor gives them a boost which will also make the most of the glaives being master-crafted. However, he's another expensive option so perhaps best left to Dantewing.
Taking a Librarian with jump-pack (can't rely on Wings firing off) will give you a 5+ cover save from the Shield power, I would combine this with Might of Heroes for some extra punch.
Taking a Priest gives you FNP. Taking a Librarian AND a Priest makes them expensive but gives them roughly Terminator levels of survivability at twice the speed.

Most of all, pick your target carefully. You want them lined up against smallish elite units, say no more than 10 men. Against hordes they'll get swamped and even if they survive, they'll be bogged down in combat for too long. At the other end of the scale however, most 2+ save units will tear them apart in return (seeing as most Terminator-style units have power fists, power klaws, thunder hammers and the like).

Sanguinary Guard are pretty decent. Compare them to Assault Squads - they're x2 the points, but on average they'll take 1/2 the number of wounds and have better weapons, attacks and abilities all round. They're super-vulnerable to AP2 though, which can potentially make them unusable depending on what armies you play against.

Again, I think the game would play better if plasma were AP 3 and krak missiles AP 2. The idea of a special weapon rapid firing away two 40+ point models is insane. AP 2 should be single shot weapons only.

I run 2-3 units of Sang guard regularly. I normally upgrade with infernis pistols. This is a VERY points cost heavy strategy BUT it does make them capable of being a short range Alpha strike unit (without the cost of a drop pod). Yes, it works beautifully to DOA them behind tanks but I find that dropping them near elite units and using the infernis pistols on them is equally deadly. It only has a 6" range though, so you have to land well or it will go really badly for you.

Dante wing is OK, but Dante himself dies far to quickly. Last time I ran him, he got turned into a chaos spawn by a CSM sorcerer....a 200+ point chaos spawn......so keep that in mind.

What about if you took the Dantebomb thing to the next level? If you take Dante, you can take Sanguinary Guard as Troops. If you then take an Honor guard for Dante AND the SG as another Troops option, you've got two really hard-hitting, fast-moving units that are (as people have said) pretty survivable due to the Sanguinary Initiate in the Honor Guard and the 2+ save for the SG. With Descent of Angels and Tactical Insertion, they are not going to scatter much, allowing you to Deep Strike them in with some precision.

Combined with a Shooty, or mechanized force, I think this could work.

Of course, I haven't even finished painting my unit of SG because they kept dying in games and I stopped taking them to the fight. So, this is just theoretical from my side.

I generally find Plasma Honor Guards to be more useful due to 6th favoring shooting.

I'm too cheap for even plasma guard. I prefer distributed plasma so they can't focus it down. Plasma on the tac squads, plasma on the las/plas razors, plasma on the bikers. Basically I play the budget Angels of sanguine cowardice. I hate myself a bit, but I can't abide fielding stuff I know is easily countered.

Martel732 wrote:
I'm too cheap for even plasma guard. I prefer distributed plasma so they can't focus it down. Plasma on the tac squads, plasma on the las/plas razors, plasma on the bikers. Basically I play the budget Angels of sanguine cowardice. I hate myself a bit, but I can't abide fielding stuff I know is easily countered.

Didn't say I dropped all the other plasma weapons to get them. lol

 Jackster wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
I'm too cheap for even plasma guard. I prefer distributed plasma so they can't focus it down. Plasma on the tac squads, plasma on the las/plas razors, plasma on the bikers. Basically I play the budget Angels of sanguine cowardice. I hate myself a bit, but I can't abide fielding stuff I know is easily countered.

Didn't say I dropped all the other plasma weapons to get them. lol

Well, yes, but that's too many concentrated on just a few meqs for my taste

In my last game, I played against the new CSM codex. I ran SG with my Libby and a Sanguinary Priest. The survivability was there and I can't complain about the ability to LoS with 2+ saves. Also my Libby was utilizing BA powers Sword and Shield. The 5+ cover save on top during my opponents shooting phase was effective. I lost that game, but I don't blame the unit for that lol. The rest of my army was fast and assaulty. Baal preds, ASM squads (meltas all over), Dread support, and Lemartes and his Lost Boys. Having played that game with BOTH an SG unit and a very killy DC unit, I can say that neither are really cost effective right now. I will be replacing both for BA Bike squads and an Honor Guard.

I find Sang Guard very situational, sometimes they'll be the heroes of the day, others they'll be a massive liability.

Fun to run in casual and fluffy lists, but I can't see a home for them in serious competitive play.

D