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Am I the only one who's noticed that while chainswords fit the Imperium to a tee, they don't entirely fit the eldar? It occurs to me that they could have had a more unique and fitting melee weapon than that, but was probably a hand-me-down from the early rogue trader era of 40k when the franchise was still finding itself. I would very much like to see the new Striking Scorpions in the next Eldar update have a new close combat weapon that actually is more in-tune with the Eldar design. Unfortunately that would involve a fair amount of creativity, which Games Workshop seems to be at an all-time low on this year. (If you disagree with that last part then please at least don't let it impact your opinion of my chainsword point.)

Bear in mind this doesn't need to be a retcon. It'd be as easy as just ending references and updating the models.

>> ... but was probably a hand-me-down from the early rogue trader era of 40k when the franchise was still finding itself. <<

It was precisely this. The similarities between Eldar and Imperium models used to be even more obvious -- once upon a time, Guardians carried Eldar Lasguns. There were options for power fists, etc. There were Eldar "Dreadnaughts" that were "made from steel." It goes on and on.

I think the "Scorpion Chainsword" is probably going to be here to stay, though. It's established quite heavily in the fluff at this point -- they are a big part of the "Path of the Warrior" novel, for example. I suppose that although I agree with the point that they are quite "Un-Eldarish" that I've just come to accept it over time, assuming it to be a more elegant weapon driven by the psychic impulse of its operator, etc.

Would definitely not object to a creatively rewritten approach, however.

I think your poll is poorly worded; by clicking "no" you're telling people that they agree that the Chainswords are the Imperium's territory.

Ever stopped to think that, fluffwise, the Eldar would have had Chainswords before the Imperium?

Iranna.

 Iranna wrote:
I think your poll is poorly worded; by clicking "no" you're telling people that they agree that the Chainswords are the Imperium's territory.

Ever stopped to think that, fluffwise, the Eldar would have had Chainswords before the Imperium?

Iranna.

Yes. Several times as I was wording it. But the problem is that once you take that step of logic, I also oblige you to say why the eldar would use weapons as crude as chainblades when they could have any other more practical weapon. Do you see why I decided not to mention it?

Besides, 40k is a work of fiction, and the imperials were written first. So for our intents and purposes the Eldar did get their chainswords from the Imperium

 Quarterdime wrote:



Yes. Several times as I was wording it. But the problem is that once you take that step of logic, I also oblige you to say why the eldar would use weapons as crude as chainblades when they could have any other more practical weapon. Do you see why I decided not to mention it?

Besides, 40k is a work of fiction, and the imperials were written first. So for our intents and purposes the Eldar did get their chainswords from the Imperium

You assume that Eldar Chainswords are "crude weapons".

You fail to understand that Eldar Chainswords are made of Diamond and can actually augment the users strength. I don't think Imperial chainswords are that advanced.

What would you consider a more "practical" weapon for an aspect designed for anti-infantry melee combat?

Iranna.

 Iranna wrote:

 Quarterdime wrote:



Yes. Several times as I was wording it. But the problem is that once you take that step of logic, I also oblige you to say why the eldar would use weapons as crude as chainblades when they could have any other more practical weapon. Do you see why I decided not to mention it?

Besides, 40k is a work of fiction, and the imperials were written first. So for our intents and purposes the Eldar did get their chainswords from the Imperium

You assume that Eldar Chainswords are "crude weapons".

You fail to understand that Eldar Chainswords are made of Diamond and can actually augment the users strength. I don't think Imperial chainswords are that advanced.

What would you consider a more "practical" weapon for an aspect designed for anti-infantry melee combat?

Iranna.

Well, I didn't have anything in mind since Games Workshop decides, and they don't listen to anyone. But if you want me to throw something out, how about twin daggers or scimitars, with an eldar twist? At the risk of blurring the distinction between their dark cousins, I think it would be more fitting to an aspect named after something that stabs using a venomed stinger. Or hey! Since they're specialist anti-infantry troops, we could be bold and give them something that's crazy specialized for killing light infantry. Like, an implausible but cool-looking weapon that runs on magic?

 Quarterdime wrote:



Well, I didn't have anything in mind since Games Workshop decides, and they don't listen to anyone. But if you want me to throw something out, how about twin daggers or scimitars, with an eldar twist? At the risk of blurring the distinction between their dark cousins, I think it would be more fitting to an aspect named after something that stabs using a venomed stinger. Or hey! Since they're specialist anti-infantry troops, we could be bold and give them something that's crazy specialized for killing light infantry. Like, an implausible but cool-looking weapon that runs on magic?

But that's just it, you end up "blurring" the lines by giving them different weapons like the ones you listed:

1. Twin daggers - not at all fitting for heavily armoured anti-infantry specialists. Also, see Deldar wyches.

2. Scimitars - Too curved, Eldar aesthetics are clean and straight in terms of swords, scimitars are more DEldar.

3. "magical weapon" - see Witchblade. Whilst all Eldar are latently psychic, they suppress actually using their psychic powers when they are not able to control them (i.e anyone who has not walked the Path of the Seer). Magic weapons don't have any place outside the Path of the Seer and special characters.

I think that the Chainswords are ideally suited for an aspect whose role is heavy anti-infanty.

Iranna.

 Iranna wrote:


But that's just it, you end up "blurring" the lines by giving them different weapons like the ones you listed:

1. Twin daggers - not at all fitting for heavily armoured anti-infantry specialists. Also, see Deldar wyches.

2. Scimitars - Too curved, Eldar aesthetics are clean and straight in terms of swords, scimitars are more DEldar.

3. "magical weapon" - see Witchblade. Whilst all Eldar are latently psychic, they suppress actually using their psychic powers when they are not able to control them (i.e anyone who has not walked the Path of the Seer). Magic weapons don't have any place outside the Path of the Seer and special characters.

I think that the Chainswords are ideally suited for an aspect whose role is heavy anti-infanty.

Iranna.

That's also what their chainswords are? Besides, I was referring to something complex and abstract.

 Quarterdime wrote:


That's also what their chainswords are? Besides, I was referring to something complex and abstract.

I'm not following what you mean in this post, any chance you could elaborate?

Iranna.

 Iranna wrote:

 Quarterdime wrote:


That's also what their chainswords are? Besides, I was referring to something complex and abstract.

I'm not following what you mean in this post, any chance you could elaborate?

Iranna.

The guardians and Dire Avengers fire their weapons by psychic manipulation, why not new striking scorpions?

They do, they activate their Chainswords...

I'm with Iranna on this one, a chainsword seems like the best weapon for them to be using, they're a heavily armoured unit so they won't have the freedom of movement to use delicate blades like Banshees do and their niche is anti light infantry, cutting their way through masses of bodies with their Chainsword. Also don't forget their Mandiblasters, they're cool and weird Eldar technology anyway

Ive always viewed Eldar Chainswords as more of a "vibroblade" technology than the gas-powered chainsaw the Imperials use.

The blade is mono-edged, with a mathematically-perfect fractal design of teeth along the edges, far too small to be seen by the naked eye, though the blade itself is a work of art, and vibrates at an ultrahigh frequency, allowing it to saw through armor, flesh and bone with contemptuous ease.

Eldar have been around longer than the Imperium has, why would they give up their chainswords?

I agree with a lot of points here for the striking scorpion chainswords which increase S and thus are much more advanced than the IoM chainsword. (I would like to see a remodel so the sword looks more "elegant", or more eldar/wraithbone like rather than so like the clumsy IoM swords)

The non scorpion chainswords are just not right though I believe those are mostly phased out and a relic of the RT era models.

You're all providing reasons why the chainswords work, and have stuck thus far. I'm not saying they make no sense, they've had 25 years to explain and polish away the core fact that the eldar are fighting in melee with chainsaws. And that better can be done.

Yerp, at the risk of setting off the Blizzard/GW stuff, if Striking Scorpions had blades kinda like Zealots do in Starcraft (longer blades however) then it might be more fitting for the "striking" movement and level of technology they employ. Think of good ole Zeratul cinematics against Kerrigan.

 Morachi wrote:
Yerp, at the risk of setting off the Blizzard/GW stuff, if Striking Scorpions had blades kinda like Zealots do in Starcraft (longer blades however) then it might be more fitting for the "striking" movement and level of technology they employ. Think of good ole Zeratul cinematics against Kerrigan.

I agree.

 Iranna wrote:


You fail to understand that Eldar Chainswords are made of Diamond and can actually augment the users strength. I don't think Imperial chainswords are that advanced.

Imperial Chainswords have Adamantium teeth, and I bet that trumps diamantine teeth any day.

 Admiral Valerian wrote:


Imperial Chainswords have Adamantium teeth, and I bet that trumps diamantine teeth any day.

Imperial Chainswords, however, do not stand up to this:

"The blade is mono-edged, with a mathematically-perfect fractal design of teeth along the edges, far too small to be seen by the naked eye, though the blade itself is a work of art, and vibrates at an ultrahigh frequency, allowing it to saw through armor, flesh and bone with contemptuous ease."

Iranna.

Rune-swords maybe?

Why not just give them all claws? Not the Exarch claw with the built-in catapult, but a claw that has the stats of their current chainswords?

One of the rumors for Warspiders is they will all have the extra "limbs" for their webspinners. This doesn't have to make them more powerful, but more unique, more aspecty, more alien, more obviously NOT human.

Eldar having advanced, elegant chainswords is perfectly reasonable, and that is the problem IMO. Speaking of chainswords, does anyone else think it's stupid that they count as regular ol' CCW's?

Could be an idea for a new Aspect... The Clamping Crabs <insert Futurama gangster quip here>.

Might make things a little hard not having the dexterity of multiple fingers though... opening cans would be entertaining though.

 Morachi wrote:
Could be an idea for a new Aspect... The Clamping Crabs <insert Futurama gangster quip here>.

Thats IT! I'm going for a scuttle...

Chainswords used to have a -1mod IIRC in second. They used to have a point. Now aesthetic use only.

I voted "No", because I think Eldar should have their own chainswords, AND in their own style.

Not to be a grognard, but basically I remember Eldar's version were called "biting swords".

It was cool, because you could compare them to Imperium's and Ork's version.

They reflected their cultures. The "biting sword" was elegant, the Imperium practical, the Ork clunky.

But at least they set a common framework for these comparisons to be made.

Thus, instead of diluting the Eldar's uniqueness, an Eldar-style chainsword may highlight it.

 Iranna wrote:
2. Scimitars - Too curved, Eldar aesthetics are clean and straight in terms of swords, scimitars are more DEldar.

Kind of an ironic statement, considering the Striking Scorpion weapons are depicted as chain scimitars in artwork, lol.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/File:Striking_Scorpion.jpg#.UXkEepDD-Uk

The Striking Scorpions use curved swords.

I agree though, I see nothing wrong with Eldar chain weaponry. I tend to think of Imperial chainswords being really loud, very crude and brutish in design and function. I think an Eldar chainsword would sound more akin to the shrill whine of a high-powered rotary cutter, more elegant in its function.

Psienesis wrote:Ive always viewed Eldar Chainswords as more of a "vibroblade" technology than the gas-powered chainsaw the Imperials use.

The blade is mono-edged, with a mathematically-perfect fractal design of teeth along the edges, far too small to be seen by the naked eye, though the blade itself is a work of art, and vibrates at an ultrahigh frequency, allowing it to saw through armor, flesh and bone with contemptuous ease.

Pretty much this. Vibrating blades. No chain going round or back and forth, but a mono-edged blade with very sharp vibrating teeth.

Admiral Valerian wrote:

 Iranna wrote:


You fail to understand that Eldar Chainswords are made of Diamond and can actually augment the users strength. I don't think Imperial chainswords are that advanced.

Imperial Chainswords have Adamantium teeth, and I bet that trumps diamantine teeth any day.

Adamantium is a fictional material which stems from a wording very similar to "like diamond". Without going way too deep, it's essentially a way to make a malleable metal that can be shaped and reshaped with extreme strength and durability, not necessarily stronger or more useful than the very real diamantine or carbonfiber that Eldar use (which again, saying Diamant is all very evocative, but I doubt Eldar actually use such primitive material since it's almost primitive by 2013 standards).

Like a chain weapon, it cuts down trees:

A FISH!

Dual-wielding Fish is a perfect weapon for Scorpions!

Okay, silly stuff aside. I like the idea of vibro-technology being the Scorpion Chainsword, as it could very well be something that has to be psychically 'moved' at that precise speed to be effective by the mind of the Scorpion wielding it. That would institute the control of the Path into the need to control the vibration of the sword? Just a thought...

I can't really think of a better idea for something who is made for cutting down lightly armored infantry. Power blades are more Eldar-y, but that's the Banshee's thing and doesn't mesh with the Scorpions' role. They don't need to be as elegant or quick as Banshees, they need to be able to wade into a mob of Guardsmen, or Orks, or Tau and lay about with their chainswords while still being agile enough to not get hit back too much. The scorpion chainsword is less broad than its Imperial cousins, and even without going into the fluff about what it's made of, looks much lighter and more able to be used with finesse. Add all this to everything about the teeth and it not being a belt-driven, gas-powered mechanism, and you've got a suitably Eldar weapon that doesn't need changing.

I think the chainswords are cool bye how much better and more elegant they are than the imperium, but i wish it was better represented than just a +1 to strength. They are diamonds that vibrate to destroy.

 Quarterdime wrote:

 Iranna wrote:
I think your poll is poorly worded; by clicking "no" you're telling people that they agree that the Chainswords are the Imperium's territory.

Ever stopped to think that, fluffwise, the Eldar would have had Chainswords before the Imperium?

Iranna.

Yes. Several times as I was wording it. But the problem is that once you take that step of logic, I also oblige you to say why the eldar would use weapons as crude as chainblades when they could have any other more practical weapon. Do you see why I decided not to mention it?

Besides, 40k is a work of fiction, and the imperials were written first. So for our intents and purposes the Eldar did get their chainswords from the Imperium

Eldar Chainblades aren't exactly crude. The teeth on their blades are so sharp that they cause dazzling reflections by cutting incoming lightwaves. Don't ask me how this works. Also, look closely at the design of the blade in say, the Path of the Warrior cover, there's no way for a belt mechanism to work, so it's almost certainly using some form of vibration technology to get the "chain" effect.