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I'm not looking for "I'd take this and that, and then I'd do this, and I'd totally pwn you", but I'd like to know what you'd do to make the list stronger without changing the core concept:

1 Warlord + shield + Fozzrik's Folding Fortress (193)
1 Warlock Engineer +lvl2 + Dispel Scroll + Ruby Ring of Ruin + Warplock Pistol (158)
1 Warlock Engineer +lvl2 + Doom Rocket + Warp-Energy Condenser + Warplock Pistol (158)
1 Warlock Engineer + Brass Orb + Warplock Pistol (73)
1 Warlock Engineer + Death Globe + Ironcurse Icon + Warplock Pistol (53)
1 Chieftain + battle standard + shield + Standard of Discipline + Warplock Pistol (95)

15 Stormvermin + musican + standard (120)
1 Warpfire Thrower (70)
15 Stormvermin + musican + standard (120)
1 Poisoned Wind Mortar (65)
15 Stormvermin + musican + standard (120)
20 Slaves + musician (42)
20 Slaves + musician (42)
20 Slaves + musician (42)
5 Giant Rats + Packmaster (23)
5 Giant Rats + Packmaster (23)
5 Giant Rats + Packmaster (23)

30 Jezzails (600)

1 Warp Lightning Cannon (90)
1 Warp Lightning Cannon (90)

Total: 2200

So the Jezzails, the General, the BSB, and probably most of the Engineers all go in the tower. Stormvermin around it, with Slaves and Giant Rats around them. I feel like this list has the potential to offer a lot in the way of tactics and fun times, or none at all. Thoughts?
P.S.: really, I'm just thinking about making a big tunneling-tower, with a drill instead of a pointed roof, and Soul Grinder legs. I'd probably even position it so if you pushed them out of the building, they'd just run off the board. There's no way I'm making that many Jezzails.

The only problem I see is how small the units are around the fortress.
You aren't likely to hold even for a round, so the enemy will cut through your infantry all to fast and be at the tower way too soon.
Jezzails are going to die all too fast inside the building.

Finally, once combat takes place in the building, you're looking at Steadfast 8 (with re-roll) to no be pushed out. While this is decent, it's less than ideal.

I'd maybe combine the 3 storm vermin units into a single block of 45, deployed in a horde in front of the building, with armor piercing banner. Then try to dig up some points (maybe drop 1 warlock) to get more slaves. Run in 2 larger units, on the flanks of the storm vermin.
That should box in the tower of power a little better.

Alternately, if you can dig up the points, a Grey Seer would be better than the warlord. Dropping the magic levels off the 2 level 2's would give you enough points to make the warlord a grey seer.

Finally, and again if you can dig up the points, MR3 is a good idea on a death star. Maybe get rid of the brassorb in exchange for the MR.

-Matt

You should maybe give it a better name than 'tower of power'. It's still nice but perhaps the whatever they named that tower ride that drops in disney land/world ('tower of terror' i think).

- I originally had the General/Tower Caddy as a Grey Seer, but I since I was tempted to take a bunch o' toys on the Warlocks, I figured I could save some points and take two lvl2's. But I'm still considering it.
- I like the idea of MSU Skaven; I feel like the Stormvermin could mop up what finally breaks through, and the Slaves/Rat Darts could slow down serious threats anyway, but a few big blocks would be better, I guess. At least it would force my opponent to choose which to Dweller?
- MR3 is a good idea.
- The "Tower of Terror" is in MGM.

1 Grey Seer + Fozzrik's Folding Fortress (340)
1 Warlock Engineer +lvl1 + Dispel Scroll + Warp-Energy Condenser + Warplock Pistol (118)
1 Warlock Engineer + Obsidian Amulet + Ironcurse Icon + Warplock Pistol (73)
1 Warlock Engineer + Doom Rocket + Warplock Pistol (53)
1 Warlock Engineer + Ruby Ring of Ruin + Warplock Pistol (48)
1 Chieftain + battle standard + shield + Standard of Discipline + Warplock Pistol (95)

41 Stormvermin + musican + standard + Razor Standard (347)
1 Warpfire Thrower (70)
51 Slaves + musician (104)
50 Slaves + musician (102)
5 Giant Rats + Packmaster (23)
5 Giant Rats + Packmaster (23)
5 Giant Rats + Packmaster (23)

30 Jezzails (600)

1 Warp Lightning Cannon (90)
1 Warp Lightning Cannon (90)

Total: 2199

Can you have more than one unit in the building? If so what about taking 2 or 3 rat ogres to go in the tower as well to take the assaults? Could be fun. And maybe split the jezzails into two units of 15, don't know if you'd lose out on stand and shoot attacks but it may be more useful for general shooting. Can skaven shoot into combats involving slaves?

I think you can get away with level one warlocks just for warp lightning spam, are there any other spells you'd really want? and what happens if you cast crack's call when you're inside a building?

On a side note have you considered a whole load of cheap warlocks with a tunneling gutter runner unit? The plan being for the warlocks to immediately all leave the unit when it arrives and run around in front of enemy units making a complete nuisance of themselves? You wouldn't have to change the list much!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and at least one guy with a warp musket and the advanced optics, just for lolz

I like the 2nd list.
The only thing I'd still worry about is the short range on the brass orb.

You might get more effect with 3 more giant rat darts then that brass orb.

Oh, call it tower of power. I love 80's rock.

-Matt

@Uzi Toting Monkeys: you cannot have more than one unit in a building. 10 models/level can shoot, so the tower would only need to be 3 levels, which is pretty standard.
I don't think many people would complain about its cheesiness; I once saw an Orc & Goblin list with a Fortress, a Spider Banner BSB, and something like 200 goblin archers. Which seems sick, until you remember that short bows have a terrible range. Still, it looked cool--a big ramshackle tower on an Arachnarok.
But yeah, one unit. So it's gotta' be one huge unit of Jezzails.

And Skaven can indeed shoot into combats that involve nothing but their Slaves and the enemy.

Upgrading two Warlocks to lvl1 costs 15pts more than upgrading one to lvl2. All of the Ruin spells are potentially useful, especially considering that I'll want to drop one of the Seer's for the Dreaded 13th.

And Crack's Call would start at the edge of the tower.

I like the idea of tunneling Gutter Runners (maybe even Night Runners with an Assassin), but I'm a bit strapped for points at this level. At 2,500, I'd really consider it.
As-is, though, I'd still consider sending the Warlocks out on their own (either deployed in other units, on their own, or Skitterleap'd). The only ones that would always go in the tower are the Wizard and the Obsidian Amulet one.

Here's a few minor things:

- Warp-Energy Condenser, or Ruby Ring of Ruin? Or both, and drop something else (like the Brass Orb)?

- Warplock Pistols (so they can always stand and shoot), or Warp Muskets (so they have a better range, but cost more)?

- Stormvermin with shields, or with more bodies?

Oh, and I found the top of the tower:

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Imperial_Guard/Imperial_Guard_Support_Vehicles/HADES-BREACHING-DRILL.html

For some reason I always thought it was 5 models / floor that could shoot. Weird.

Pistols over muskets for Stand and Shoot. You get SnS at the max range of the shortest ranged weapon. A musket would have you at 24", which is outside half range of a Jezzail.

OTOH, a Warlock with Warlock Optics and a Musket makes for an interesting conversion piece to lead Jezzails.

Stormvermin with more bodies I would say. You'll take some shooting, but the shift in armor save probably won't be as effective as more bodies, which apply to more than just shooting.

Unless you plan to skitterleap the brass orb, I'd go with Condensor + Ruby Ring. Ruby Ring for getting rid of regen before a bunch of warp lightning fries something is a good way to deal with Hydras i would think.

Love this list btw!

Well, whaddaya know. It is 5 per floor. Well, I guess it'll count as a 6-level tower. I don't feel too bad about that, really. It's a 100pt magic item. And 5 models/level? Really? As if BS-based shooting didn't have it hard enough.

Not sure what you mean about the pistols versus muskets. It looks like the only time the Pistols will really come into play is if the enemy marches up real close (their M away, or closer), so maybe the muskets will see more use?
So a related question:
I've currently spent 40pts on Warplock Pistols. Upgrading them all to Warp Muskets would cost another 35pts. Where else could I spend these points? Is there perhaps some advantage to a mix of both, or does none of this matter enough to bother with?

As for the Orb/Condenser/Ring question, I think I put in the Orb because it's a hard counter to some really expensive stuff.
But with 30 Jezzails, those things will be taken care of in short order. So out with the Orb, and in with another (cheaper) item.

The Optics are cool, but for 20pts, they're not even close to worth it. Maybe if they granted Sniper.

 streamdragon wrote:
For some reason I always thought it was 5 models / floor that could shoot. Weird.

Pistols over muskets for Stand and Shoot. You get SnS at the max range of the shortest ranged weapon. A musket would have you at 24", which is outside half range of a Jezzail.

OTOH, a Warlock with Warlock Optics and a Musket makes for an interesting conversion piece to lead Jezzails.

Stormvermin with more bodies I would say. You'll take some shooting, but the shift in armor save probably won't be as effective as more bodies, which apply to more than just shooting.

Unless you plan to skitterleap the brass orb, I'd go with Condensor + Ruby Ring. Ruby Ring for getting rid of regen before a bunch of warp lightning fries something is a good way to deal with Hydras i would think.

Love this list btw!

Half Range on a Jezzail is 15". Opponents more than 18" from the building are most likely going to fail the charge.
Models more than 18" away should have storm vermin and or slaves in the way.
Take those muskets. Normally I'd say pistols, but with such a long half range, they really don't do much.

Ruby ring only removes regen in the magic phase. They'd get regeneration back in the shooting phase. It's still worth taking, as it makes the rest of your spells put wounds down without regeneration.

-Matt

Fair point on the Muskets. But at 15pts each, is it worth it? I mean, I could take three more Jezzails and a Musket for the same price as five Muskets.

Half range on Jezzails is 18", not 15". Their base range is 36". Agreed that anything beyond half range should have a body in the way though. I'd still go with pistols myself.

As to RRoR and regen, I was referring to Warp Lightning the spell, not the WLC. With the condensor giving +2 bolts I figured at least one engineer was going to take it.

 streamdragon wrote:
Half range on Jezzails is 18", not 15". Their base range is 36". Agreed that anything beyond half range should have a body in the way though. I'd still go with pistols myself.

As to RRoR and regen, I was referring to Warp Lightning the spell, not the WLC. With the condensor giving +2 bolts I figured at least one engineer was going to take it.

I caught the 15" as I was typing; which is why the 2nd two references say 18".
I think I'd go without pistols or muskets at all.
Assassin with stars might be useful though. 3 S5 shots with multiple wounds D3. Could be useful.

-Matt