Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Blood Angels “Band Aid” Patch For 6th Edition

The Purpose of these updates is to bring the BA codex back into the playable and enjoyable realm. It is intended for casual play only. I will not adjust any points values of units within the BA codex. I will however be making rules adjustments, restoring revisions made by 6th Edition and fixing things that are just plain BROKEN (broken in an “it don’t work” kinda way).

Feedback will be greatly appreciated to assist in bringing to light anything that becomes overpowered.

Dante – I’m thinking we either give the oldest chapter master in existence ETERNAL WARRIOR, or we make The Axe Mortalis strike at initiative.

Astorath – The Executioner’s Axe stikes at initiative.

Sanguinor – If chosen as your HQ, The Sanguinor can take 1 squad of Sanguinary Guard at no additional force organization slot. If chosen the Sanguinor MUST join the squad.

Mephiston – If Mephiston defeats an enemy unit / model and ends combat he must make a leadership test with a -1 for each model that he has defeated in close combat. If he fails his leadership test
Mephiston succumbs to the red thirst and drinks the blood of his enemies and regains 1 wound. He cannot move, shoot or run in his next turn but he will attack in close combat if assaulted. He regains control of himself the following turn. If assaulted in the enemies phase and successful he cannot make another leadership test as he is already bloodlusted.

Tycho – No adjustment to regular Tycho. Death Company Tycho may choose to join a Death Company squad.

Librarian – Add Iron Halo wargear

Captain – May take Artificer Armor for +15 points.

Death Company – Either add Death Co. get +1 initiative on the charge OR bring back the old 2nd ed rule: Death company members all have 1W+1, meaning that during the game each model has 2 wounds, any model that takes a wound during the game and survives until the end of the game is considered dead. They are so hyped up during battle that they don’t succumb to their wounds until after the battle is over.


Let me know what you guys think.


The one thing I am NOT trying to do is make the codex overpowered. I just want to back to being a fun codex to play.

First off, I'd like to point out that the DA codex somewhat addressed the issues of marine HQs being overpriced for what they do. So there's hope.

Here is are my thoughts on this:

Dante: Eternal Warrior and some non-trivial warlord trait. He's only the oldest chapter master in existence. Leave axe the same.

Astorath: Leave axe alone. He lets DC score. Done.

Sanguinor: I like your idea; it's the only thing that saves a 275 pt T4 model.

Mephiston: He gets three powers if he generates them from the base book. He's stuck at AP3. Maybe give him rending, so he's effective vs 2+ armor.

Tycho: Agreed.

Librarian: Give just the BA the DA 100 pt epistolaries. Done. No iron halo needed.

Captain: give them all C:SM options. Done.

DC: Make jump packs 7 or 8 pts per model. Done.

My main reason for "fixing" the axes is that Those characters were created, balanced and priced to strike at initiative. Dante has never in his existence suffered from initiative issues.

As far as the Librarians, I want all the options the DA get.

Would cheap JPs make DC viable given that this edition favors shooting over cc? I like your suggestion of scoring DC, allows us to take them wihout the hit to scoring troops.

Dante's warlord trait: makes Jump pack troops arrive like drop pods, up to half on turn 1.

Good ideas.

Here is one I have been contemplating.

All Blood Angels get Furious Charge as standard (as per older codexes)

Sanguinary Priests Blood Chalice, instead of giving Furious Charge, it gives +1 to Initiative.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I don't really think CC has been nerfed very much in this edition, I have had great success with CC in 6th so far.
Overwatch is over-rated really.

Martel732 wrote:
First off, I'd like to point out that the DA codex somewhat addressed the issues of marine HQs being overpriced for what they do. So there's hope.

Here is are my thoughts on this:

Dante: Eternal Warrior and some non-trivial warlord trait. He's only the oldest chapter master in existence. Leave axe the same.

Astorath: Leave axe alone. He lets DC score. Done.

Sanguinor: I like your idea; it's the only thing that saves a 275 pt T4 model.

Mephiston: He gets three powers if he generates them from the base book. He's stuck at AP3. Maybe give him rending, so he's effective vs 2+ armor.

Tycho: Agreed.

Librarian: Give just the BA the DA 100 pt epistolaries. Done. No iron halo needed.

Captain: give them all C:SM options. Done.

DC: Make jump packs 7 or 8 pts per model. Done.

This is pretty much all it would take, the only thing I would do differently is give Dante and his millenia of battle experience the option to use his weapon with two profiles, either Power Axe +2 Str, Ap2 Unweildy, Master crafted, or as a Power Sword, Str User, Ap3, Master Crafted. He makes the decision during the charge sub-phase and before the fight sub phase.

If all DA get stubborn as per 2nd edition/3rd edition, I think it fair all BA get Furious Charge as they used to.

No one's going to let us play with this though. The BA just have to suffer in the wilderness the way the DA did for years and years. It's just annoying that Space Wolves do exactly what the BA are supposed to be able to do.

Some of us have a table in our basement, and 6 armies for friends to use. In such a setting most people don't care. It's really the only place I can enjoy fielding my BA anymore.

The BA aren't unfieldable. You just have to not use a lot of iconic stuff and accept a 50% win rate. What's not to love?

Well firstly, if I didn't want to use iconic blood angel stuff I'd be playing vanilla, that's what's not to love.

I was being sarcastic The BA are arguably worse than the BT at this point. How bad is that?

Martel, you are such a whiner.

I have been thrashing Chaos SM and Orks in 6th with no problems so far. You lose a few more people yes, but all this prissy whining about "CC is dead" is way way over done.

I suspect you may just have a lack of tactical ability.

By the way, at the rate they are producing codex's BA won't be waiting "years and years" and nor will any other army I suspect.

Perhaps you should come play some of the the lists I play against then. Or let me drive the CSM. You won't be trashing anything, because the BA are bad and I know how to dismantle them, as does most of my play group. Also, do you play TAC lists or tailored lists? I've stated time and time again that TAC lists are where the BA are miserable.

Yeah, we took BA to adepticon and got our asses whooped.

Overwatch on any infantry blob over 10 models is devastating. Simply devastating.

 cincydooley wrote:
Yeah, we took BA to adepticon and got our asses whooped.

Overwatch on any infantry blob over 10 models is devastating. Simply devastating.

Being overpriced is the biggest mountain to climb in 40K, and the BA have a ton of overpriced units.

Here's an overview of what I think the best suggestions have been. The only thing I added was giving Mephiston Rending (5+)

Blood Angels Chapter:
All Blood Angels get Furious Charge as standard (as per older codexes)

Sanguinary Priests Blood Chalice, instead of giving Furious Charge, it gives +1 to Initiative.

Dante :
ETERNAL WARRIOR,

Dante's warlord trait: makes Jump pack troops arrive like drop pods, up to half on turn 1.

Astorath:
He lets DC score.

Sanguinor:
If chosen as an HQ, The Sanguinor can take 1 squad of Sanguinary Guard at no additional force organization slot. If chosen the Sanguinor MUST join the squad.

Mephiston:
RENDING (5+).

Tycho:
No adjustment to regular Tycho.

Death Company Tycho may choose to join a Death Company squad.

Librarian:
C: DA Librarian options (obviously still with Blood Angel psyker abilities).

Captain:
C: SM Captain Options.

Death Company:
Death Co. get +1 initiative on the charge.

These all seem reasonable to me (but then I'm a Blood Angels player, so I would endorse any improvement ). I'm going to run this past my friends and see if they would mind me using these rules for our friendly games.

 cincydooley wrote:
Yeah, we took BA to adepticon and got our asses whooped.

Overwatch on any infantry blob over 10 models is devastating. Simply devastating.

yet the reverse is true when the BA assaulting is a Death company dread with talons. BAs are still viable you just have to build them right. The storm raven for example is one of the best flyers available.

"yet the reverse is true when the BA assaulting is a Death company dread with talons"

DC dreads are bad. Good players don't get assaulted by these things. They have crap delivery systems and AV 12. Having to take DC to get them is even worse.

"BAs are still viable you just have to build them right"

Really? Please tell me how. There is no way to build a list out of a bunch of generally overpriced units that's going to be any good. I don't know if you play BA, but many BA players build lists and forget the opponent gets a turn too.

"The storm raven for example is one of the best flyers available."

Yeah ,this might be true except for how much the damn thing costs. The Vendetta's existence makes this thing mediocre at best, dipping into questionable since its transport capacity is useless.

I love my storm raven, however it rarely survives 2 full turns on the table. I would never use it as a delivery system.

I'm liking the list we came up with. I am gonna print it out and show it around m play group. We have a lot of ex BA players that all moved on due to our codex issues. I should be able to gain some good feedback and maybe even find a person or two who would be willing to play against it.

Come play me Martel, been playing for 20 years ;-)
Any army can be de-constructed.
Play CSM by any means, I am pretty sure a player like you will not be such a problem.
As for overwatch, I have frequently charged mobs of 20 Orks shootas, overwatch is overrated.
As for DC dreads being "bad" hmmm, I seem to remember you saying Fraganaughts were good, but oh well.....
And no, I play campaign games, don't really like tournaments, though I used to play them many years ago. I play for the storyline, and fighting fellow loyal armies seems, well, heretical.
Most tournament players are epic failures in a campaign/rpg setting. Different style of game.

 Endriu Death Coy wrote:

As for DC dreads being "bad" hmmm, I seem to remember you saying Fraganaughts were good, but oh well.....

Well, Fragnoughts are actually decent. I never leave home without 2 in pods.

Like others have said... DC dreads need a delivery system and have mediocre armour. If they had A13, I would run 2 w/ Talons in Lucius pods.


Lucarikx

 Azrell wrote:
yet the reverse is true when the BA assaulting is a Death company dread with talons

Right until you lose due to a lack of scoring units

The storm raven for example is one of the best flyers available.

That's why almost every army has a SR-Gunship

I don't pretend to be the best player on here. But I've been playing BA since 2nd edition. I've been busy with candidacy, so I don't know all the ins and outs of the new 6th edition codices, only what I've been up against. Frankly, I couldn't tell you if my opponents have been cheating me with their 6th edition codex lists or not. I trust that they aren't.

I know BA. Inside and out. I rarely lose to other players fielding BA. Because I know exactly where to hit them and what they hate. And in this edition, its a lot of stuff.

And Kangodo is 100% right. Viable = FNP bikes and other non-fluff gimmicks. And even then, it's marginal. And I've said over and over on at least a dozen threads that BA still tailor okay. But most of the time, you can't do that. And BA TAC lists...... sheesh.

If you don't know that DC <> Fragnought, odds are you don't understand the BA well. DC dreads don't get the option of a frag cannon. If they did, I'd have to reconsider their utility. I am not above changing my view upon new data or tactics. But I don't see any way to make the AV 12 DC dread good. Fragnoughts have a chance to frag the melta guy in the face before he can fire; DC dreads can't. That's a world of difference. Of course, if melta guys are in Chimeras, this brings a whole new problem. But that's not the issue.

Overwatch is not my issue. A big issue is that many lists can now defeat or nearly defeat BA in HTH, invalidating many tactics and builds. CSM, for example, have access to permanent init 5. They are literally better BA than the BA. If you go look in the list forums, I can guarantee the average CSM list there will mulch the average BA post. Go look at the lists the BA codex inspires. Too many overpriced gimmicks that are all just fodder for the well-equipped CSM and grey hunters of the world. And in my setting, I have to fight space wolves constantly, because they are good. And they pound my face over and over. I'm happy that in your league format or whatever you don't have to fight these guys, but I do. They're an insane match up for post-nerf BA.

The Stormraven is a mediocre unit at best. This is in large part due to the fact that the Vendetta exists. If the Vendetta was appropriately costed, the Stormraven would be immediately promoted to "good". But the Vendetta does exist. And didn't get a price increase.

Yes, I can compare because everything is relative and I have fight these things constantly. The price tag on the Stormraven is untenable with the Vendetta running around. It costs more than the helldrake and is less durable and lacks the troop killing efficiency of the baleflamer. If you consider its failure as a transport, its arguably not even mediocre. And it also inspires fail lists. BA can not survive with huge amounts of points in reserves.

One more thing: "You lose a few more people yes". This statement. This snowballs into not being able to win the next HTH combat. If you don't think this is a big deal, then you're not playing against good list and people who know what they're doing. Everyone knows the BA assault is coming, but BA are pussies when you counter attack them. This was the Achilles heel in 5th, and now it's just three times worse by taking more casualties on the initial assault. If you're thrashing, they're letting you do it.

Martel, I was saying take a fraganaught instead of a DC dread, if you hate DC dreads so much. I use both, drop pods are quite an efficient delivery system.

You were saying all dreads are useless on multiple threads.

I disagree.

Even AV12 is still very very unpleasant for the average horde blob to deal with. Plus the heavy flamer option can toast a non MEQ melta guy before he gets to fire.

And there is a lot of cheating in 6th edition codexes due to poor wording and deliberate misinterpretation of the rules by a lot of players.

The Helldrake is not that tough, its likely to be toasted by a SR in fairly short order, and is not likely to damage the SR with its baleflamer loadaout. It may do some damage if it gets to do its CC attack during movement, but its not that likely. The helldrake shines as anti-infantry, its not much to write home about as air superiority.

As for the SR failing as a transport, well, max throttle + evade (jink) have worked well for me so far, means you can only snap shoot but with twin linked that can still be effective, go to hover the next turn and hey presto, assault vehicle. Then your opponent frequently has a choice, shoot at the SR or the CC nasties that are rampaging along his support line.
Weapons loadouts on the SR can be tailored, TL Assault Cannons, TL Plasma Cannons, TL Heavy bolters, or a Cyclone ML all can chew through infantry quite well in my experience. Bale flamers are nasty indeed, but so are the flamestorm cannons on a Baal Pred, and judicious use of the 2" spacing between models can reduce the effectiveness of flame templates greatly, though its not always possible.

Maybe, they I am thrashing because they let me do it, but then again maybe not. I have been wargaming various systems (and in real life) for about 30 years. Maybe your opponents are thrashing you because you let them?

Of course, the last tournament results I viewed, the 5 BA forces were all in the top 8 (admittedly IG won it overall and the other 2 top 8 were CSM), but hey who am I to argue with your depressive genius?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Martel, as a good friend of mine said, why don't you play the Tau?

For Mother R...... I mean Tau'va

Then you can have a legitimate reason to complain about useless CC troops

Who indeed.

Don't they count paint jobs in touneys? Whatever its anecdotal anyway. I'm glad you think the BA are so hot. I think their ability to field a TAC list is miserable.

In my experience, Stormravens are good target practice for Vendettas.

When you start building a TAC list with BA it essentially looks like a Codex:sm list except we are missing the effective units out of codex:sm.

So what you end up with are Tac squads, drop pod Sternguard essentially the bland units in our dex, which codex:sm can do wih more bells and whistles.

I am almost at the point where I am just going to field my BA using codex: SM.

Someone gets it! Yay! The iconic BA units are so expensive and more *miss* than *hit*. I had high hopes for sanguinary guard, but plasma is the spam weapon of this edition due to its ability to fry light tanks and any infantry and any MC. The poor sanguinary guard just get caught up in the whole mix and end up sucking.

C:SM also has 12 man pods, combat tactics, cheap TH/SS, the Stormtalon (better than SR now imo), and the thunderfire, AND a whole bunch of cool HQs.