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So a couple of us 40k gamers at the local club play with two tyranids players who both use the Doom but we all agree that it is a wee bit overpowered. Thus I'm looking for some fair and balanced rules for adjusting it so that it is not as insane. I'm willing to hear any points that it is already balanced as it is. The problem is the non-tyranid players want to nerf if far too much for the tyranid players' liking to the point of it not being worth to field and the tyranid players don't want to nerf it enough for the non-tyranid players' liking.

Here is some propositions I've heard:

2d6 + d3 for the leadership tests to gain wounds

toughness of 3 for the Doom

roll a d6 to see if the Doom's special power can be activated, if not it behaves just as a normal zoanthrope

any other thoughts and suggestions?

It's not over powered at all really - yes it can do a lot of damage, but it's also very easy to kill.

Also it really should only have one turn at killing lots of things as you just move in your turn away from it.
Then just hit it with all your S8 weapons for insta kill.

It's fine as it is.

"We lose to it, so it is a wee bit overpowered" is the sentiment I am getting from here. How much have you done to gameplan for it?

Exactly. T4 isn't high, reducing it to T3 would be such a nerf that anything could kill it.

I must admit however, now and again my Doom runs around with iron arm on him

The Doom is balanced by not having any vehicles in the army. I love the Doom, but he's only broken if you can't fix your target priority. Of course, the Dooms success is very tied to dice, as there's times you literally can't stop him, for no statistical reason, the dice are just hot. But, spread out, when he comes in back up and then shoot him off the board.

While I didn't expect the general consensus to be that the DoM is fine, the general consensus at my club, even from the Tyranid players using it, is that it is OP. So I suppose the question would be what is the least nerfiest nerf that can be given to it?

Can you answer my question. What are you or anyone else doing ot counter the Doom? Or are you just hammering at it with the same tactic?

Dodes wrote:
While I didn't expect the general consensus to be that the DoM is fine, the general consensus at my club, even from the Tyranid players using it, is that it is OP. So I suppose the question would be what is the least nerfiest nerf that can be given to it?

Nothing. Have you not read or understand the aforementioned statements? The Doom is fine as is. So what, it kills some of your units when it first drops in? Big deal! The anti-Doom strategies are already clearly stated above. You shouldn't penalize your opponent for using a perfectly legitimate unit the way it was intended to be used. Instead you and the other players at your game shop should reevaluate your tactics and plan for its arrival (i.e. take S8+ guns with Skyfire and kill it before the Tyranid player's shooting phase).

A lot of codices have units that kill a lot of things. Are you going to create house rules to nerf them all, just because you have a problem countering them? I think what you and your fellow gamers are proposing is incredibly unfair to the Tyranid players at your local game shop.

Another point to make: if the Doom was really so overpowered as you believe, wouldn't you think GW would have FAQ'd it a long time ago in one the several Tyranid FAQ's released thus far?

We bumped him up 25 points. That's it.

You're nerfing one of the half dozen decent units in a mediocre dex, shame on you

 curran12 wrote:
Can you answer my question. What are you or anyone else doing ot counter the Doom? Or are you just hammering at it with the same tactic?

It's pretty much a case of divert all lascannons and battlecannons. I don't like putting melta guns in but I'm seeing myself put more and more in each time I face it.

 Adamantium wrote:

Dodes wrote:
While I didn't expect the general consensus to be that the DoM is fine, the general consensus at my club, even from the Tyranid players using it, is that it is OP. So I suppose the question would be what is the least nerfiest nerf that can be given to it?

Nothing. Have you not read or understand the aforementioned statements? The Doom is fine as is. So what, it kills some of your units when it first drops in? Big deal! The anti-Doom strategies are already clearly stated above. You shouldn't penalize your opponent for using a perfectly legitimate unit the way it was intended to be used. Instead you and the other players at your game shop should reevaluate your tactics and plan for its arrival (i.e. take S8+ guns with Skyfire and kill it before the Tyranid player's shooting phase).

A lot of codices have units that kill a lot of things. Are you going to create house rules to nerf them all, just because you have a problem countering them? I think what you and your fellow gamers are proposing is incredibly unfair to the Tyranid players at your local game shop.

Another point to make: if the Doom was really so overpowered as you believe, wouldn't you think GW would have FAQ'd it a long time ago in one the several Tyranid FAQ's released thus far?

If there is something OP in any army then the group that I play with at our local club place house rules on it.

What's unfair is making the DoM useless, I"m not suggesting my friends and I do this, I"m trying to find a balanced approach for this that all parties can be appeased.

Also I do believe there is a FAQ for the Doom that allowed for cover saves to be taken against it, which never made a lot of sense and as such we want to replace the cover saves with a different nerf.

 amanita wrote:
We bumped him up 25 points. That's it.

Thanks for actually answering the question, was thinking that nobody was going to for a while.

Eldercaveman wrote:
You're nerfing one of the half dozen decent units in a mediocre dex, shame on you

Yes shame on me for adhering to the consensus of local players. How despicable.

I have only played against the doom once in 6th edition.

It came in, nuked a guardian squad (big deal) and a couple of fire dragons then in my turn took a krak missile to the face and snuffed it.

My advice for killing the doom is take strength 8 interceptor weaponry if you have it available (if not then take tau allies!) and gun it down when it turns up. If that is not an option then hit it in your turn after maybe losing a squad.

If you are insistent on nerfing it, maybe say it can't use its soul power on the turn it comes in or in close combat.

The other option is to make it function like a psychic power so it can be denied, dispelled or runed like any other power.

Eldercaveman wrote:
You're nerfing one of the half dozen decent units in a mediocre dex, shame on you

Only in a vacuum. We also lowered the price of carnifexes, gave warriors T5 and 2 wounds, gave the pyrovore torrent, changed the lictor's deployment method and abilities, increased the toughness of mycetic spores, included a wing option for primes, etc., etc.

Why? Because the Tyranid codex may be the worst of all time for internal screw-ups. The Doom happens to be one of the under-costed units. We just don't like no-brainer units, good or bad.

The Doom gets overpowered if he has iron arm without it not so much.

So yust agree not to let him get that and your done. He will do his thing whenn he drops in thenn get shot the next turn.

 amanita wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:
You're nerfing one of the half dozen decent units in a mediocre dex, shame on you

Only in a vacuum. We also lowered the price of carnifexes, gave warriors T5 and 2 wounds, gave the pyrovore torrent, changed the lictor's deployment method and abilities, increased the toughness of mycetic spores, included a wing option for primes, etc., etc.

Why? Because the Tyranid codex may be the worst of all time for internal screw-ups. The Doom happens to be one of the under-costed units. We just don't like no-brainer units, good or bad.

Now you've opened it up, it seems a bit more fair, considering you've given your Nid players some more options.

Dodes wrote:
So a couple of us 40k gamers at the local club play with two tyranids players who both use the Doom but we all agree that it is a wee bit overpowered. Thus I'm looking for some fair and balanced rules for adjusting it so that it is not as insane. I'm willing to hear any points that it is already balanced as it is. The problem is the non-tyranid players want to nerf if far too much for the tyranid players' liking to the point of it not being worth to field and the tyranid players don't want to nerf it enough for the non-tyranid players' liking.

Here is some propositions I've heard:

2d6 + d3 for the leadership tests to gain wounds

toughness of 3 for the Doom

roll a d6 to see if the Doom's special power can be activated, if not it behaves just as a normal zoanthrope

any other thoughts and suggestions?

Why nerf one of the only good units in the crappy nid dex? And why make it weaker than a normal freaking Zoanthrope? We already have the absolute crappiest army in the game, let us have our god damn doom!

Amoras wrote:
The Doom gets overpowered if he has iron arm without it not so much.

So yust agree not to let him get that and your done. He will do his thing whenn he drops in thenn get shot the next turn.

I disagree. In my last game he had Endurance. Tied up Kharn and his boys for 3 full game turns. before Kharn finally fell.

2d6 + d3 for the leadership tests to gain wounds

That would mean the average roll is 9, down from 10/11

toughness of 3 for the Doom

Bad idea, it would be too easy to ID him.

My suggestion would be to give his Spirit Leech an AP-value, something like 3 or 4.