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I've been playing terminators a lot. And they just die so quickly! and They dont have fearless. They are cheaper and of course less resilient as compared to loyalist terminators.
Any thoughts guys?

Try putting some marks and banners with them, Lightening Claw Slaneesh with Excess banner are beastly, also Land Raider is always a good call

Their not worth it plain and simple. Get more turkeys and cultists

kissmymom wrote:
I've been playing terminators a lot. And they just die so quickly! and They dont have fearless. They are cheaper and of course less resilient as compared to loyalist terminators.
Any thoughts guys?

cheap combi plas is about the only use I see for them. Fast Melta isnt as important and can be filled out in the FA section better.

I usually run them in squads of 5.
MoT
2 Combi Melta
2 Chain fist.
1 Champion with Power fist.

Give them the 2+/4++ But i still find them too expensive for they can do.

Do you think running 2 squads would make the difference?
We're looking at about 600 points here. with that I could have get 4 predators with 12 lascannons?

MoT rocks Vs elite armies, MoN against horde armies.
They have got some of the best terminator weapon options (okay no assault cannon) and can easily deep stike in a load of melta or plasma to sort out tanks and other hard targets. I like units of 4 with MoT and other goodies which'll set you back 180 or so points. Then you either pop them in a landraider (with room for a lord or two) or deep strike.

If you have invested in 3 predators in a single FOC army then an uber death squad, assuming you have enough troops, may work. At the end of the day they do very different things. A unit of 10 terminators will merrily rip through unit after unit of orks where the preds would struggle with low number of shots and cover saves further nurfing them.

 Jasper wrote:
MoT rocks Vs elite armies, MoN against horde armies.
They have got some of the best terminator weapon options (okay no assault cannon) and can easily deep stike in a load of melta or plasma to sort out tanks and other hard targets. I like units of 4 with MoT and other goodies which'll set you back 180 or so points. Then you either pop them in a landraider (with room for a lord or two) or deep strike.

If you have invested in 3 predators in a single FOC army then an uber death squad, assuming you have enough troops, may work. At the end of the day they do very different things. A unit of 10 terminators will merrily rip through unit after unit of orks where the preds would struggle with low number of shots and cover saves further nurfing them.

Yeah. I agree with that. Its just that everytime my opponents are so scared of them they shoot everything they have at it. And they just get wiped out. All they did was taking out 1 tank on the turn they deep strike in.

Any suggestion for list against necrons? (Mindshackle scarabs is annoying) lol.

And then you mishap because they have 0 guidance and you waste 300 points lol (Happens often...)

The only way CSM:Terminators would have been good, is if they had 2Ws... They aren't fearless, Their weapon load-out is more costly that you'll ever make back on them, and the sheer fact you can DS them onto the battlefield and potentially lose all of them because of the lack of guidance... I tend not to field them anymore

GoliothOnline wrote:
And then you mishap because they have 0 guidance and you waste 300 points lol (Happens often...)

The only way CSM:Terminators would have been good, is if they had 2Ws... They aren't fearless, Their weapon load-out is more costly that you'll ever make back on them, and the sheer fact you can DS them onto the battlefield and potentially lose all of them because of the lack of guidance... I tend not to field them anymore

Which is why everyone should use Obliterators. 2+/5++ and T5 with MoN. Just as effective popping armor as they are blowing away troops.

Honestly, I would only run Terminators in the case where I have a squad of 5 with combi melta's and have a Land Raider as a DT for them to roll up the board with...

Even once they get out, sure, they'll probably die in 1-2 rounds, but you still have a friggin Land Raider! And it didn't even take up a Heavy Support slot from your FOC because it was a DT!!!

GoliothOnline wrote:
Honestly, I would only run Terminators in the case where I have a squad of 5 with combi melta's and have a Land Raider as a DT for them to roll up the board with...

Even once they get out, sure, they'll probably die in 1-2 rounds, but you still have a friggin Land Raider! And it didn't even take up a Heavy Support slot from your FOC because it was a DT!!!

Which means you can also Infiltrate that unit in the LR if using Huron Blackheart.

I usually give my terminators MoS with an icon of excess added on for good measures.
They strike before other marines in cc and the icon also grants the unit (and any attached independent character with MoS) the feel no pain special rule to boot.

The downside to this is they have a tendency to become quite expensive when adding any extra upgrades on them.



This is how I commonly run my terminators:
5x Terminators (2x combi-melta, 4x lighting claws, reaper autocannon, MoS, Icon of excess)… 264 points

POKEYtheBIG wrote:

GoliothOnline wrote:
Honestly, I would only run Terminators in the case where I have a squad of 5 with combi melta's and have a Land Raider as a DT for them to roll up the board with...

Even once they get out, sure, they'll probably die in 1-2 rounds, but you still have a friggin Land Raider! And it didn't even take up a Heavy Support slot from your FOC because it was a DT!!!

Which means you can also Infiltrate that unit in the LR if using Huron Blackheart.

if only you could take a redeemer as CSM....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Redcruisair wrote:
I usually give my terminators MoS with an icon of excess added on for good measures.
They strike before other marines in cc and the icon also grants the unit (and any attached independent character with MoS) the feel no pain special rule to boot.

The downside to this is they have a tendency to become quite expensive when adding any extra upgrades on them.



This is how I commonly run my terminators:
5x Terminators (2x combi-melta, 4x lighting claws, reaper autocannon, MoS, Icon of excess)… 264 points

I really like the single lightning claw, but i usually pair it with a combi plas. I then also go for the heavy flamer, because I hate the reaper autocannon's cost and frank lack of good targets.

If you are going to run Chaos Terminators, never do so competitively and always run them in very large numbers with combi plasma. I also like to have Mark of Khorne for Rage (as +1 invul didn't really increase their survivability enough for me), it is also the cheapest and if you have the extra points the Icon of Wrath isn't half bad (rerolling charge distance). I also like to have Abbadon in any Terminator list to reroll to hit and to wound of 1 as your combi shots are very important (he also benefits from the Icon, which can be nice if you need his AP2 weapon to wound on 2s to eat terminators).

Personally I like running big squads with a fearless ICs in them to keep them from running, and then a smaller squad in a land raider. Put in an Aegis line with a Comms relay to reroll deep strike, and hope for some decent rolls. A bunch of saves of 1 will ruin your day.

I have been considering taking them with Mot and a mix Combi-Plasma and Combi-Flamers [say 4/3], a mix of Power Axes/Power Mauls/Chain Fist [3/4/2], of Reaper Cannons and the Sergeant with Paired Lighting Claws.

 Anpu42 wrote:
I have been considering taking them with Mot and a mix Combi-Plasma and Combi-Flamers [say 4/3], a mix of Power Axes/Power Mauls/Chain Fist [3/4/2], of Reaper Cannons and the Sergeant with Paired Lighting Claws.

the asp champ has to pay extra for his weapon upgrades, so the pair of lightning claws ends up being very expensive. I usually run my champ with a sword to just punk any normal champ.

Still gotta say I love the single lightning claw. Only 3 points and with VotLW you get to reroll everything vs marines.

 Exergy wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:
I have been considering taking them with Mot and a mix Combi-Plasma and Combi-Flamers [say 4/3], a mix of Power Axes/Power Mauls/Chain Fist [3/4/2], of Reaper Cannons and the Sergeant with Paired Lighting Claws.

the asp champ has to pay extra for his weapon upgrades, so the pair of lightning claws ends up being very expensive. I usually run my champ with a sword to just punk any normal champ.

Still gotta say I love the single lightning claw. Only 3 points and with VotLW you get to reroll everything vs marines.

My other thought was a Power Maul and a Power Axe

I can't agree with the combi plasma, simply because the effects granted from a plasma shot are outweighed by the effects of a melta shot on all accounts, what people sometimes don't get is that sure if you are outside of the "Melta-Effect" range, you dont get double pens on your shots, but the shot itself is still bloody str 8 and AP1 lol

On the choice of marks, always Tzeentch. You don't need the icon, it's worthless, sticking them with a 4++ is almost the only way to run them now since they WILL DIE to ap2 weapons of any sorts.. and lets be honest, there's a crap ton out there now =/ especially if you want to fight your old Tau buddies =/ being able to save your terminators on 50% of the time is a heck of a lot better than giving them +T which wont matter on a str 8/9 weapon (It's still 2+ to wounds you and you won't get an armor save on most weapons at that str anyways as most are ap2 to boot)

Of course if you want to run melee terminators by all means give them Khorne and expect bloodshed lol Double LCs guarantee's you're doing 5 attacks on the charge (2 + 2rage + 1 for having double LCs) Just remember, don't buy gun upgs unless you entirely want to focus on shooti with them. It's a road you can't take the middle ground on.

GoliothOnline wrote:
I can't agree with the combi plasma, simply because the effects granted from a plasma shot are outweighed by the effects of a melta shot on all accounts, what people sometimes don't get is that sure if you are outside of the "Melta-Effect" range, you dont get double pens on your shots, but the shot itself is still bloody str 8 and AP1 lol so who cares if you have to be within 12" of your 24" Combi-Melta. 24" str8 ap1 shot is still 24" str8 ap1, without the possibility of accidentally hurting yourself XD

Umm
Combi meltas are 12" range, so only get the melta effect at under 6".
Combi plas are 24" rapid fire, so you can shoot once at double the range or twice at 12"


twice the range is good
twice the shots is good
chance to get hurt is low
reduction in strength doesnt matter much

 Exergy wrote:

 Redcruisair wrote:
I usually give my terminators MoS with an icon of excess added on for good measures.
They strike before other marines in cc and the icon also grants the unit (and any attached independent character with MoS) the feel no pain special rule to boot.

The downside to this is they have a tendency to become quite expensive when adding any extra upgrades on them.



This is how I commonly run my terminators:
5x Terminators (2x combi-melta, 4x lighting claws, reaper autocannon, MoS, Icon of excess)… 264 points

I really like the single lightning claw, but i usually pair it with a combi plas. I then also go for the heavy flamer, because I hate the reaper autocannon's cost and frank lack of good targets.

But how do you get the terminator armed with the heavy flamer close enough to the enemy?
Deep striking them close to the enemy is way too risky and using a Land Raider for transport is too expensive.

So how do you justify using the cheaper flamer over the twin-linked autocannon with much longer range and flexibility?

 Redcruisair wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

 Redcruisair wrote:
I usually give my terminators MoS with an icon of excess added on for good measures.
They strike before other marines in cc and the icon also grants the unit (and any attached independent character with MoS) the feel no pain special rule to boot.
The downside to this is they have a tendency to become quite expensive when adding any extra upgrades on them.
This is how I commonly run my terminators:
5x Terminators (2x combi-melta, 4x lighting claws, reaper autocannon, MoS, Icon of excess)… 264 points

I really like the single lightning claw, but i usually pair it with a combi plas. I then also go for the heavy flamer, because I hate the reaper autocannon's cost and frank lack of good targets.

But how do you get the terminator armed with the heavy flamer close enough to the enemy?
Deep striking them close to the enemy is way too risky and using a Land Raider for transport is too expensive.

So how do you justify using the cheaper flamer over the twin-linked autocannon with much longer range and flexibility?

I ds them in with the goal of unloading my combi plas to maximum effect. If I scatter close I use the heavy flamer. If not, I find that having the heavy flamer (usually in the back of the DS formation) means that the enemy HAS to expend a lot of fire to kill the terminators this turn to avoid the HF. I also like having the flexibility when facing a horde army, to deploy my mobile heavy flamer with the rest of my troops.

For me, regular flamers arent that effective, the heavy flamer is. The autocannon just gives me 2TL str7 shots, rather than 2 TL str4 shots at slightly better range. Not worth the 25points

 Redcruisair wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

 Redcruisair wrote:
I usually give my terminators MoS with an icon of excess added on for good measures.
They strike before other marines in cc and the icon also grants the unit (and any attached independent character with MoS) the feel no pain special rule to boot.

The downside to this is they have a tendency to become quite expensive when adding any extra upgrades on them.



This is how I commonly run my terminators:
5x Terminators (2x combi-melta, 4x lighting claws, reaper autocannon, MoS, Icon of excess)… 264 points

I really like the single lightning claw, but i usually pair it with a combi plas. I then also go for the heavy flamer, because I hate the reaper autocannon's cost and frank lack of good targets.

But how do you get the terminator armed with the heavy flamer close enough to the enemy?
Deep striking them close to the enemy is way too risky and using a Land Raider for transport is too expensive.

So how do you justify using the cheaper flamer over the twin-linked autocannon with much longer range and flexibility?

Essentially you don't lol
Unless you have the point values to spare for the Land Raider, you're either taking a chance with your deepstrikes, or you're simply not bringing them.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
I woudlnt bash that extra 25 points for the Reaper. I've taken out flyers with that thing

GoliothOnline wrote:

I woudlnt bash that extra 25 points for the Reaper. I've taken out flyers with that thing

I have taken out flyers with bolters. I have taken out flyers with dark lances. I have taken out flyers with plasma guns(risky). Doesnt mean those are effective at taking out flyers, but anything can surfice with luck.

Well when you put it like that might as well just run them naked and hope for the best..

But you can't deny it's a good gun...

Would you take it over a Combi-plasma or Melta?

All up to you. I always Take at least 1.
Personal preference perhaps? Possibly, but they have yet to disappoint.

My choice with the Reaper Cannons is more with that I also run Space Wolves [I use a lot of Assault Canons and Heavy Flamers] and Dark Angels [I use a lot of Cyclones and Plasma Cannons] so with Chaos I want to use something different.

Though I have considered making a second Chaos Terminator Squad loaded up with Combi-Flamers, Heavy Flamers and MoN for Anti-Swarm Work.

Chaos Terminators are quite different from most regular terminators -- you don't get ATSKNF, you don't get power fists or thunder hammers. You are, however, almost 10pts cheaper per body. You can bring more bodies in terminator armor than most loyalists. CSM Terminators are most closely comparable to Wolf Guard in Terminator Armor, for equipment and cost. Wolf Guard are +2 points, and have Space Wolf Benefits (ATSKNF + Counter-attack). Chaos Terminators get DS and Marks. Wolf guard can also do Loganwing, whereas Chaos Terminators can never be troops. It would have been awesome if Abaddon made Terminators troops instead of chosen, but oh well.

Compared to most Loyalist terminators, you're not going to be hitting quite as hard, and you have the wonderful chance of getting swept if you end up losing. But you can afford to lose small terminator squads, whereas generally each loyalist squad is a huge investment. Although Wolf Guard can go as few as three men in a squad, you're not going to see that, as if they're taking a Drop pod it'll be 5 man, or one terminator alone in front of a squad soaking up fire. Your lack of fearless would pressure us towards one of two options -- using Terminators as a retinue for a fearless character, of which there are a lot in CSM. Or, keeping them small and cheap. Taking large squads and tooling them up runs you into the same problems that you run into doing that with any non-fearless unit. Thus, the Termicide squad. Three man squad, 3 combi-meltas, alongside a powerfist or chainfist, and that's it. Comes to only a little more than 100 points. You DS it in, melt something, and then annoy their back lines because terminators aren't that easy to kill, despite everything bad said about their survivability.

I'd take power axes for their equipment, it allows them to engage basically any infantry, and do well. They'll win on efficiency vs regular terminators, being much cheaper and still ruining armor saves. The Heavy weapons are fine, if a bit overcosted. The problem with them is that you won't have much opportunity to take them. The reason for that is that, if you're taking them as a retinue for a character that you want in CC, you're going to put them in a LR, and you thus can only have a 4 man squad with your character. Footslogging them is not recommended, and without any scatter reduction, DSing expensive terminator squads is a recipe for disaster.

Don't treat CSM Terminators like a deathstar, they're not good at that. People just see the terminator armor and go 'OMG they're invincible!' They're not. What they are are cheap terminator armored bodies that can take combi-weapons.

I feel that CSM Terminators have a definite place in the CSM codex. One of CSM's dilemmas is that they are an army that generally wants to get up the field and into CC, but they don't really have any tools to do that. No trukks, bad Land Raiders, etc. Termicide Squads give you upfield presence and distraction, two things that CSM like. Furthermore, they're taking up your elites slot, which is generally lackluster otherwise. Yes, Nurgle Obliterators could probably do the jobs of Terminators better, but Chaos Heavy Support is one of their best sections, while elites is basically where the cult troops hang out and moan about being benched.

 Thariinye wrote:
Said Really Good Stuff

I will agree with 99%, but I think they may be viable as Tactical Terminators.
I have been experimenting with running Tactical Terminators in 6th [mostly with Dark Angels, but some with my Space Wolves]. “Gun Line” Terminators have done well.

Keep them Simple, Combi-Bolters or Combi-Plasma with a pair of Reapers.
True that’s 360 to 400 points, but they would be tough to dig out of an objective you want to hold.

Now I would not take them to a Tournament, but for the LFGS Bring and Bash I would consider it.

 Anpu42 wrote:

I will agree with 99%, but I think they may be viable as Tactical Terminators.
I have been experimenting with running Tactical Terminators in 6th [mostly with Dark Angels, but some with my Space Wolves]. “Gun Line” Terminators have done well.

Keep them Simple, Combi-Bolters or Combi-Plasma with a pair of Reapers.
True that’s 360 to 400 points, but they would be tough to dig out of an objective you want to hold.

Now I would not take them to a Tournament, but for the LFGS Bring and Bash I would consider it.

I'm not sure that I understand what you mean. Using Terminators as objective campers while being unable to score just seems illogical. Why would your enemy ever want to clear out a maxed squad of Terminators?
You're spending 360 points contesting a single objective. That means I can probably gain superiority somewhere else on the battlefield.

I love my Terminators but IMO they are best used as a spearhead alongside the compulsory lord,or perhaps even two with Kharn and a PA lord with an Axe of Blind Fury to make them fearless. Now that's a proper death star.
The termicide squad also works, although I'd run them with power mauls and Combi-Meltas.

IMO CSM is an assault-oriented codex and therefore you need either speed, survivability or distraction elements to get you safely across the table.
This is why I still field my Terminators every chance I get.

What about Termies + Abby in LR?

Decent combo?

Jonas_U wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:
Said Stuff

I'm not sure that I understand what you mean. Using Terminators as objective campers while being unable to score just seems illogical. Why would your enemy ever want to clear out a maxed squad of Terminators?
You're spending 360 points contesting a single objective. That means I can probably gain superiority somewhere else on the battlefield.

I love my Terminators but IMO they are best used as a spearhead alongside the compulsory lord,or perhaps even two with Kharn and a PA lord with an Axe of Blind Fury to make them fearless. Now that's a proper death star.
The termicide squad also works, although I'd run them with power mauls and Combi-Meltas.

IMO CSM is an assault-oriented codex and therefore you need either speed, survivability or distraction elements to get you safely across the table.
This is why I still field my Terminators every chance I get.

Here is my use of them [this goes for most of my “Tactical” style Terminators]:
I place one objective on my side of the board in or near a high objective.
During deployment Place the Terminator Squad in or near that objective in hopes to deny my opponent that objective.
What happens a lot of time is my opponent usually waist a lot of firepower trying push them off letting some of my units maneuver while not being harassed.

It usually works out, whether they are scoring or not.