Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Does anyone know some good tactics for defeating the empire detachment rule? I'm playing Chaos, and want to win for a change...

Danimal wrote:
Does anyone know some good tactics for defeating the empire detachment rule? I'm playing Chaos, and want to win for a change...

Generally, throw chaff at the detachment and bigger stuff at the parent units.
Though with the new FAQ, if the parent isn't in combat, the detachment is always steadfast.
On of the things I had a lot of success with (any elite army fighting scrubs) is that if your opponent is steadfast and holds the first round, consider reforming stupidly wide to block those flank charges and force him to come into your front. Also, have a huge front means that when you do pursue, he will have a very hard time getting out of the path.
My units of 18 saurus frequently go from 6 wide to ~12 or 15 wide after the charge.
No avoiding that.

-Matt

Cheers for that Matt. I found some great ideas for defeating Cavalry using a 'detachment' system (just a couple of chaff units) to absorb the charge. The frontage thing has been good for me, especially using chaos warriors who kick ass... I'm still learning how to create a decent force so that is aprt of the learning process.

Danimal wrote:
Cheers for that Matt. I found some great ideas for defeating Cavalry using a 'detachment' system (just a couple of chaff units) to absorb the charge. The frontage thing has been good for me, especially using chaos warriors who kick ass... I'm still learning how to create a decent force so that is aprt of the learning process.

If you don't mind special characters, you could always come up behind him with a ton of marauders...

-Matt

Use a chaff unit like a unit of Warhounds to block the detachment's charge into your main unit.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Use a chaff unit like a unit of Warhounds to block the detachment's charge into your main unit.

When half the detachments are crossbows, warhounds are pretty short lived.

-Matt

Well if they're ranged detachments there isn't much you can do.

I suppose it was wrong of me to assume we were discussing a melee threat.

Actually, any tips in this discussion are valuable.

I'm a new player going up against someone who has 12+ yrs experience in the game and the rules. I've found that he is using a largely mounted force to counteract the lethality of the chaos core units.

I suppose that a cavalry force that is charging would not have xbows, but it is somewthing to watch out for. Perhaps the idea of blocking using a bulked out marauder force could absorb some of that.

I'm struggling with the repeating handgunners actually: sooooo many attacks from a small unit. Getting close is difficult, especially with the stand and shoot option on a charge. Perhaps magic is the way to get rid of those...

I'm an empire player who often faces rather annoying chaos armies (lots of gore beast chariots, chimeras, always the rude demon prince of nurgle, the little roll 6 dice to channel guy and tzeench unkillable BSB, and sometimes all at once)

The detachment system is what keeps the empire alive in such situations, however it can be shut down well by appropriate use of charge order and chaff.

Best option: Sacrificial lambs (or war dogs), the classic charge a detachment with chaff, then when they're all tied up charge the parent unit with your intended hammar

Second annoyingly effect choice: Charge the parent with something rude (such as the demon prince, or even warriors) and hit the (usually smaller) detachments with a double chariot assault. The parent will hold, but with impact hits most detachments will be toasted, allowing for a reform and next turn flank on the parent unit with the chariots. (the unbreakable nurgle DP is the best option here as it denies much needed combat resolution for when the chariots get their flank charge)

Over all chariots make excellent detachment hunters, they are tough enough to shrug off the stand and shoot (which hits on 5's or 6's at best anyways) and will tie up the detachment if they don't out right kill it.

As far as the multitude of outrider gun fire goes, the chariot again is a perfect counter. (gor beast for the win, but regular chariots are faster, cheaper and almost as tough) with nurgle is T6, 3+ armor. If over half range thats 5's then 6's and a 5+ save left and 5 wounds. if with in 12 inches the chariot will be charging with exactly the same chances for stand and shoot, and unless the sarge has pistols will 6's and 6's if the charge is made from outside of 12 inches. And here is the kicker, the guns are "move or shoot" so even if he elects to flee and gets the free reform from fast cavalry, he wont be shooting on the next turn as he counts as having moved.

So in short --> chariots = good counter to both detachments and outriders. Just watch out for cannons.

EDIT: I've been hoping to convince my opponent to try this out, I've long thought minimum sized slanesh marked marauders with or with out flails could prove dirt cheap and effective chaff to throw at a detachment to tie it up.

 Castitas wrote:
I
EDIT: I've been hoping to convince my opponent to try this out, I've long thought minimum sized slanesh marked marauders with or with out flails could prove dirt cheap and effective chaff to throw at a detachment to tie it up.

Khorne. Just a couple of points more, and those that survive the shooting get an extra attack. Still immune to psych. Maybe deploy them behind the dogs. Dogs giving hard cover to marauders, both vanguard for a turn 2 charge.

-Matt