Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

How are Lady Malys and Duke Sisclus?
Like how well a benefit is it to be able to redeploy d3 units/ gain poisened on a unit of kabolite and gain deepstriking venoms?
What are some common ways/ examples of using them/doing so?

Haemonculi or Haemonculi Anicent?
how much a benefit of +1 to pretty much all stats but str does it make?
what would be the most affective way to use them?

should you run him like this?
Haemonculi Ancient 115
soul trap
animus vitae
flesh gauntlet

is this how you should you run your Kabolite Trueborn?
6 Kabalite Trueborn 158
4 blasters
2 splinter cannons
haywire grenades
raider
Flicker Shields
Splinter Racks

should you run your ravager like this? In what way should you be using them?
Ravager 125
Disentegrator Cannon> or should you keep it a dark lance?
2 Dark Lances
Night Shields
FlickerFields

Talos
> who is better? How should they be used?
Cronos

Voidraven Bomber
> who is better? How should they be used?
NightWing

Alot of questions here but for someone who has the time to answer or just answer a few and someone else can answer a few I'd very much appreciate the responses

 Dezstiny wrote:
How are Lady Malys and Duke Sisclus?
Like how well a benefit is it to be able to redeploy d3 units/ gain poisened on a unit of kabolite and gain deepstriking venoms?
What are some common ways/ examples of using them/doing so?

Malys is only worth it if you have an extremely high number of psyker armies in your local meta. And then even barely. The redeployment can be somewhat useful, same can be said for the psyker immunity, but she lacks offensive capability. And you'd want her in an offensive unit.

Sliscus is ok for the poison and combat drugs reroll, especially if you go Wych heavy. However, Wyches took quite a beating this edition, to the point that they are generally only useful as suicide units to take out important vehicles with haywire grenades and to get more Venoms out. You don't need combat drugs for that. The improved poison can be useful when combined with a large warrior/trueborn squad, he's got that 2++ shadowfield save and decent CC ability. You'll hardly want to deepstrike any vehicles though, as you'd rather have an alpha strike and reserves are generally unreliable.

 Dezstiny wrote:
Haemonculi or Haemonculi Anicent?
how much a benefit of +1 to pretty much all stats but str does it make?
what would be the most affective way to use them?

should you run him like this?
Haemonculi Ancient 115
soul trap
animus vitae
flesh gauntlet

An Ancient is hardly worth the upgrade. He's not that much stronger in CC than a normal Heamy, who's only a supporting character in CC at best. The Animus Vitae is possibly the most useless piece of equipment in the entire codex. Do not take it ever. Haemonculi are taken either to unlock Wracks as troops or to give a unit a cheap pain token. They are able to support a unit offensively with a liquifier and/or a venom blade. Try to minimize the total number of points you spend on them.

 Dezstiny wrote:
is this how you should you run your Kabolite Trueborn?
6 Kabalite Trueborn 158
4 blasters
2 splinter cannons
haywire grenades
raider
Flicker Shields
Splinter Racks

Mixing weapons on Kabalite Trueborn is quite a waste, as half your models won't be effective when firing at a certain target. Blasters do not have the range when firing at infantry with Splinter Cannons, as you'd rather be at the 36" mark. Splinter Cannons can't damage the vehicles your Blasters are aiming at. Either go:
1) 3-4 Trueborn, 3-4 Blasters, Venom with extra Splinter Cannon, or;
2) 3 Trueborn, 2 Splinter Cannons, Venom with extra Splinter Cannon, or;
3) 3 Trueborn, 2 Splinter Cannons, Raider, deploy the Trueborn in cover and use the Raider to cover your other skimmers.

 Dezstiny wrote:
should you run your ravager like this? In what way should you be using them?
Ravager 125
Disentegrator Cannon> or should you keep it a dark lance?
2 Dark Lances
Night Shields
FlickerFields

It's hardly worth it getting only one or two disintegrators on a Ravager, as you'll lose shots when firing either. Against vehicles, you are usually better off firing Lances. Against heavy infantry, you are usually better off firing Disintegrators. So either go 3 Lances or 3 Disintegrators, depending on the rest of your army. I like to minimize on upgrades, as I rather take more units than heavily upgraded units. That said, both Flickerfields and Night Shields have their uses.

 Dezstiny wrote:
Talos
> who is better? How should they be used?
Cronos

Only use these if you do not take a skimmer force. They work well with a footslogger or coven army, but are generally too slow for your "default" DE skimmer army. The Talos is generally the better option, but 2 Taloi and 1 Chronos is a decent heavy support setup for a coven/flootslogger army.

 Dezstiny wrote:
Voidraven Bomber
> who is better? How should they be used?
NightWing

I'm assuming you mean the Razorwing, as the Nightwing is a Forgeworld Eldar flyer. It depends. The Razorwing is a very good infantry killer. Arm it with disintegrators and the default missiles, and you'll do very well against any type of infantry horde or heavy infantry. The Voidraven Bomber is superior in tank hunting and more resilient than the Jetfighter. If you lack anti-vehicle (and Dark Eldar usually do), the bomber is the better choice. Upgrade them both with a Flickerfield.

Right, lets get going.

1.A) Lady Malys:- With *only* an Archon statline and a fancy Djin blade, you are paying at least 50 pts for all those abilities (60 + djin blade). Precognisant may work in a reaver heavy army so you can bluff then reserve, but it is very situational. And while a constant 4++ is more reliable then a shadowfield, id rather the shadowfield, because most the tme it only takes one failed save to end the game anyway. So...really a no go unless you want to run a grot-star, amking them immune to force weapons MAY help against grey knights.

1.B) Duke:- Always bet on the duke! He is a force multiplyer, while his statline isn't bad, it is downgraded from an archon, but he more then makes up for it else where. His poisen 3+ upgrade is quite nasty for a splinterborn unit with 2 cannons and 3 carbines. Or even 10 splinterborn in raider, thats a LOT of dakka that WILL kill anything it shoots at. But thats alot of eggs in an armour 10 open topped basket. The drugs roll is a nice bounes to let you adapt to what you are fighting. Never roll a 1 again! Low orbit raid saves you a five point upgrade...Every little helps. What you do is start him with 5 splinterborn outside, but next to there venom first turn next to some wyches and there raider. First turn leave splinterborn and join wyches and go seperate ways to make the most of his combat prowess, with one of the only AP2 (possibly...) at I in the game and a shadowfield. If a list is made with him he can make that list VERY good, if the list isnt made around him he will only make it slightly better.

Haemonculus Vs Ancient. Depends on there jobs. I run an ancient with my wyches with a venomblade and liquifier (always have a liquifier!) because he adds some CC punch. But if i was running one with Warriors then it would only be a Haemonculus with Liquifier for FnP. One more option is to join him to an allied pathfinder squad so he gets stealth plus shrouded, they get night vision, and his hexs rifle gets the bounes of guide. So unless you have a specific job for the ancient to do, just go with normal one.

Ancient build...No. If you use the animus vitae you can't use any other weapon (e.g flesh gauntlet). Plus if you want an instand deather for the soultrap its MUCH more effective to just use a Huskb;ade archon. A melee ancient build is at best Ancient with liquifier + venomblade, plain and simple. Id say he mightg just have enough attacks to justify an agoniser. Oh, if you are feeling fancy swap liquifier for shattershard for targets of oppertunity.

Trueborn build...No. Never generalize a squad. esecially dark eldar. If your blasters are shooting at tanks, what are your splinter weapons doing? A good slpinterborn unit to start with duke is 7 trueborn with shardcarbines and 2 splinter cannons in a raider with splinter racks + night fields. Thats 23 shots that re-roll to hit then wound on 3s. Extra shardcarbine bodies is OK, but i dont like to many points in a single unit thats not survivable. Most people play blastborn which is simply 4 trueborn with 4 blasters in a venom with extra cannon. Simple, effective, deadly. Oh...dont take haywire with them. If you are in assalt with a tank, you are doing something wrong.

Ravager build. Once again, never generalize. go triple dark lance. Thats it, no upgrades. You get a 5+ jink save which is the same as flickerfields and anti tank will be in range of you with night fields or not. But 3 dark lances do wonders, take 2.

Talos Vs Chronus. Both are SLOW! Dark eldar arn't. A talos CAN work but he wont hit the lines till turn 3-4, when most of your assalt units should already be in assalt, moving onto next. Chronus is a good concept but with being so slow you will find by the time he is in range, your own DE wont be in range to recieve pain token. Unless you are basing your list on them, Take a ravager insted. Much easier to use, will never dissapoint.

Voidraven Vs Razorwing Vs Nightwing (?). Razorwing brings a lot of pain for little points, well thats a lie. But for less points then other armies. If you are in need of anti infantry (you are in need of anti-infantry? Whats wrong with you!) then take a razorwing with flickfields. Dont take other missles, base are good enough. Take dissintergrator so you become plain anti-infantry, dont take SC as you can only fire 4 weapons, 2 of them WILL be missiles. If you take dark lance you will be tempted to shoot tanks, thats what the other badboy is for.

Voidraven is amazing. Expensive, but amazing. This puppy pens almost EVERYTHING in the game on a 4+. I'd say this is better then a ravager at anti-tank because it is more survivable. Take one, take flickerfields. Fly on and kill a landraider. Remember you can use the mine in the moving phase, at any speed. Perfect for flying on, shooting, then next turn flying off leaving a little surprise. Take any of the 10 pt missiles at your disgression, i would take 2 in case the enemy is playing hoard.

Nightwing if thats what you really mean is the best anti flyer in the game. Its a forgeworld eldar flyer with has a 3+ coversave JUST FOR MOVING. and a 2+ for jinking. That with double brightlance and shuri cannon makes for a great air dog fighter. Its also fast attack if you are taking eldar allies!

Hoped i helped.

 Dezstiny wrote:
How are Lady Malys and Duke Sisclus?
Like how well a benefit is it to be able to redeploy d3 units/ gain poisened on a unit of kabolite and gain deepstriking venoms?
What are some common ways/ examples of using them/doing so?

Malys isnt good. Unless you love her fluff dont use her.

Some people like the duke, but I personally do not.
I would only take them in a combat reaver/wych HEAVY army, when rerolling the drugs becomes very useful. Start him with 10-20 simple warriors with 1-2 splinter cannons that will be the only warriors you will take becasue everything else will be wyches

 Dezstiny wrote:

Haemonculi or Haemonculi Anicent?
how much a benefit of +1 to pretty much all stats but str does it make?
what would be the most affective way to use them?
should you run him like this?
Haemonculi Ancient 115
soul trap
animus vitae
flesh gauntlet

dont take a Haemi ancient, they are a terrible waste of 30 points
dont ever put anything but a venom blade, liquifier, or shatter shard on regular haemis.

 Dezstiny wrote:

is this how you should you run your Kabolite Trueborn?
6 Kabalite Trueborn 158
4 blasters
2 splinter cannons
haywire grenades
raider
Flicker Shields
Splinter Racks

all eggs in one basket doesnt work, especilly if all those eggs die like gretchin. Either 4 blasters or 2 splinter cannons. No grenades, that is what wyches are for.

 Dezstiny wrote:

should you run your ravager like this? In what way should you be using them?
Ravager 125
Disentegrator Cannon> or should you keep it a dark lance?
2 Dark Lances
Night Shields
FlickerFields

all dark lances all the time

 Dezstiny wrote:

Talos
> who is better? How should they be used?
Cronos

Talos are better but Cronos are more fun. Neither is a good mix if you are taking vehicles. Only take if you are going all foot, wracks and grotesques

 Dezstiny wrote:

Voidraven Bomber
> who is better? How should they be used?
NightWing

The Razorwing is better Anti infantry, the void raven better at killing tanks and other flyers. Neither is super, but you take them and see what you can get out of them. It really depends on what your oppoent has to how you use them. Remember the quad gun that almost everyone takes will kill them the turn they come on before they shoot, so dont count on them.

You'll hardly want to deepstrike any vehicles though, as you'd rather have an alpha strike and reserves are generally unreliable.

I guess The reason I was looking at the ability to DS was just to have the options to do so in the case I was presented the option to do so I guess just putting Retrojets on Specific vehicles that I'd want to deepstrike would be better rather than taking him? because now that I realize it his 2+ wound wont really come in handy if he's in a squad of kabolite which are primarily for shooting

They are able to support a unit offensively with a liquifier and/or a venom blade. Try to minimize the total number of points you spend on them.

So in other words if I wanted to take a unit of incubi on a venom I should probably go with an archon instead?

Mixing weapons on Kabalite Trueborn is quite a waste, as half your models won't be effective when firing at a certain target. Blasters do not have the range when firing at infantry with Splinter Cannons, as you'd rather be at the 36" mark. Splinter Cannons can't damage the vehicles your Blasters are aiming at. Either go:
1) 3-4 Trueborn, 3-4 Blasters, Venom with extra Splinter Cannon, or;
2) 3 Trueborn, 2 Splinter Cannons, Venom with extra Splinter Cannon, or;
3) 3 Trueborn, 2 Splinter Cannons, Raider, deploy the Trueborn in cover and use the Raider to cover your other skimmers.

I guess the question I should ask is where the fighting range of Dark Eldar takes place? the reason for the mix of weapons would really be for tactical options. Say the game presented itself where I'd benefit from fighting LR then I have plenty of splinter weapons, If I need to get close and pop a Tank then they have the option to do so, and If I have to hit up some heavy infantry between blasters and poisoned shots I should be able to deal with them as well. How many roles should each unit in DE regularly have to take?

It's hardly worth it getting only one or two disintegrators on a Ravager, as you'll lose shots when firing either. Against vehicles, you are usually better off firing Lances. Against heavy infantry, you are usually better off firing Disintegrators. So either go 3 Lances or 3 Disintegrators, depending on the rest of your army. I like to minimize on upgrades, as I rather take more units than heavily upgraded units. That said, both Flickerfields and Night Shields have their uses.

Sounds good

Only use these if you do not take a skimmer force. They work well with a footslogger or coven army, but are generally too slow for your "default" DE skimmer army. The Talos is generally the better option, but 2 Talos and 1 Chronos is a decent heavy support setup for a coven/flootslogger army.

So should you always run them in pairs at least? Coven?

I'm assuming you mean the Razorwing, as the Nightwing is a Forgeworld Eldar flyer. It depends. The Razorwing is a very good infantry killer. Arm it with disintegrators and the default missiles, and you'll do very well against any type of infantry horde or heavy infantry. The Voidraven Bomber is superior in tank hunting and more resilient than the Jetfighter. If you lack anti-vehicle (and Dark Eldar usually do), the bomber is the better choice. Upgrade them both with a Flickerfield.

Jea, sorry, awight so generally is razorwing worth having over the ravagers for the ability to have anti-air as well as that of what you already stated, or do we have the ability to ignore flyers therefore taking either a razorwing or voidraven bomber is more personal choice and wont hurt you for not taking one?

 Dezstiny wrote:
I guess The reason I was looking at the ability to DS was just to have the options to do so in the case I was presented the option to do so I guess just putting Retrojets on Specific vehicles that I'd want to deepstrike would be better rather than taking him? because now that I realize it his 2+ wound wont really come in handy if he's in a squad of kabolite which are primarily for shooting

I wouldn't deepstrike any vehicles at all. You can be (close to) anywhere on the board with any Dark Eldar vehicle in a single turn. Why risk arriving a turn late and/or mishap by using deepstrike?

 Dezstiny wrote:
So in other words if I wanted to take a unit of incubi on a venom I should probably go with an archon instead?

Yes, an Archon with a Phantasm Grenade Launcher will do nicely for Incubi. This setup quickly becomes quite expensive though, so your opponent will probably focus fire on them and kill them before they reach assault.

 Dezstiny wrote:
I guess the question I should ask is where the fighting range of Dark Eldar takes place? the reason for the mix of weapons would really be for tactical options. Say the game presented itself where I'd benefit from fighting LR then I have plenty of splinter weapons, If I need to get close and pop a Tank then they have the option to do so, and If I have to hit up some heavy infantry between blasters and poisoned shots I should be able to deal with them as well. How many roles should each unit in DE regularly have to take?

Because of our AV10 vehicles, you'll generally want to remain outside of bolter (rapid fire) range. So that would be 30+ inches. The mixing of weapons itself would not be that bad as such, but the unit cost rises along with it. DE are not like IG, where you get 3 walking assault weapons along with 7 models of cannon fodder. You pay a premium for Trueborn and they die just as easily as those IG. Better to focus on one aspect and minimize cost. It would be better to have that unit of 4 blasters and 2 splinter cannons split up into two units and take an additional Venom.

 Dezstiny wrote:
So should you always run them in pairs at least? Coven?

If you want to take a Talos, I recommend taking at least two. The combination of two Taloi with a Chronos allows you to quickly grant them a pain token, for an effective 5+ invulnerable save (T7, feel no pain) versus those heavy weapon that will target them. A Coven is the traditional term to indicate a Dark Eldar army consisting of Haemonculi and their creatures. So a force consisting primarily of Haemonculi, Grotesques, Wracks, Talos Pain Engines and Chronos Parasite Engines.

 Dezstiny wrote:
Jea, sorry, awight so generally is razorwing worth having over the ravagers for the ability to have anti-air as well as that of what you already stated, or do we have the ability to ignore flyers therefore taking either a razorwing or voidraven bomber is more personal choice and wont hurt you for not taking one?

The Dark Eldar's best AA is, sadly, an Aegis Defense Line with a Quadgun. Our flyers simply can't compete with things like Heldrakes, Night Scythes and Vendettas. Due to our speed, we do have the option to avoid enemy flyers rather effectively, especially if you "see" them coming. If you do want to take a flyer and use it for anti-air, the Voidraven Bomber is the better choice, because of its +1 STR Lances. Yes, our flyers should have their names swapped.

Id have to say Voidraven totaly outstrips an aegis defense line. Considering most flyers are armour 11 you pen on 3's. Yeah, could you ask for better AA? It also doubles up as great AT, but only aim at expensive panks to make points back. Heldrakes are altogether not to good vs dark eldar unless you are using Autocannon (Really? Not baleflamer? Dont believe you!) because they pay premium for AP3, we laugth at that, in a dieing screaming kinda way... I can vouche for the voidraven being a very good unit, everytime it comes on something happens, what? Wont ruin the surprise

. His poisen 3+ upgrade is quite nasty for a splinterborn unit with 2 cannons and 3 carbines. Or even 10 splinterborn in raider, thats a LOT of dakka that WILL kill anything it shoots at. But thats alot of eggs in an armour 10 open topped basket. The drugs roll is a nice bounes to let you adapt to what you are fighting. Never roll a 1 again! Low orbit raid saves you a five point upgrade...Every little helps. What you do is start him with 5 splinterborn outside, but next to there venom first turn next to some wyches and there raider. First turn leave splinterborn and join wyches and go seperate ways to make the most of his combat prowess, with one of the only AP2 (possibly...) at I in the game and a shadowfield. If a list is made with him he can make that list VERY good, if the list isnt made around him he will only make it slightly better.

Now he sounds good

Haemonculus Vs Ancient. Depends on there jobs. I run an ancient with my wyches with a venomblade and liquifier (always have a liquifier!) because he adds some CC punch.

'
So him with a squad of what makes a good close combat unit? bouncing off that question would it be better than 4 incubi in a venom with an archon?

Trueborn build...No. Never generalize a squad. esecially dark eldar. If your blasters are shooting at tanks, what are your splinter weapons doing? A good slpinterborn unit to start with duke is 7 trueborn with shardcarbines and 2 splinter cannons in a raider with splinter racks + night fields. Thats 23 shots that re-roll to hit then wound on 3s. Extra shardcarbine bodies is OK, but i dont like to many points in a single unit thats not survivable. Most people play blastborn which is simply 4 trueborn with 4 blasters in a venom with extra cannon. Simple, effective, deadly. Oh...dont take haywire with them. If you are in assalt with a tank, you are doing something wrong.

I guess my thing is does this

Venom
Night Shields
2 Splintercannons
5 Kabolite Trueborn
4 blasters

get the job done when it comes to popping tanks from your personal experience?/ shooting from long range as well as

6 Kabalite Trueborn
4 blasters
2 splinter cannons
raider 80
Flicker Shields
Splinter Racks


where everything here is pretty much twin-linked and it is almost ensured that you will blow up a tank

Talos Vs Chronus. Both are SLOW! Dark eldar arn't. A talos CAN work but he wont hit the lines till turn 3-4, when most of your assalt units should already be in assalt, moving onto next. Chronus is a good concept but with being so slow you will find by the time he is in range, your own DE wont be in range to recieve pain token. Unless you are basing your list on them, Take a ravager insted. Much easier to use, will never dissapoint.

How does they do when supported by a webway portal from an archon? Instead of walking them down the field?

Voidraven Vs Razorwing Vs Nightwing (?). Razorwing brings a lot of pain for little points, well thats a lie. But for less points then other armies. If you are in need of anti infantry (you are in need of anti-infantry? Whats wrong with you!) then take a razorwing with flickfields. Dont take other missles, base are good enough. Take dissintergrator so you become plain anti-infantry, dont take SC as you can only fire 4 weapons, 2 of them WILL be missiles. If you take dark lance you will be tempted to shoot tanks, thats what the other badboy is for.

Sounds good

Voidraven is amazing. Expensive, but amazing. This puppy pens almost EVERYTHING in the game on a 4+. I'd say this is better then a ravager at anti-tank because it is more survivable. Take one, take flickerfields. Fly on and kill a landraider. Remember you can use the mine in the moving phase, at any speed. Perfect for flying on, shooting, then next turn flying off leaving a little surprise. Take any of the 10 pt missiles at your disgression, i would take 2 in case the enemy is playing hoard.

Damn


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Some people like the duke, but I personally do not.
I would only take them in a combat reaver/wych HEAVY army, when rerolling the drugs becomes very useful. Start him with 10-20 simple warriors with 1-2 splinter cannons that will be the only warriors you will take becasue everything else will be wyches

So really you should still only take him if you plan on running wytches?

dont take a Haemi ancient, they are a terrible waste of 30 points
dont ever put anything but a venom blade, liquifier, or shatter shard on regular haemis.

Got it.

all dark lances all the time

Do all DC not usually do as well? or is their another reason for why?
all dark lances all the time

Remember the quad gun that almost everyone takes will kill them the turn they come on before they shoot, so dont count on them.

This is what makes me scared to take them, just really wanted to see how affective they are when they are played. Maybe a good account of an absolutely superb moment will edge to my try it out, if you have any that you can remember



Automatically Appended Next Post:

I wouldn't deepstrike any vehicles at all. You can be (close to) anywhere on the board with any Dark Eldar vehicle in a single turn. Why risk arriving a turn late and/or mishap by using deepstrike?

But if they do, Don't they have to turbo and you can't shoot?

his setup quickly becomes quite expensive though, so your opponent will probably focus fire on them and kill them before they reach assault.

Is there a way to get them over safely? or will they truly die almost all the time before getting there?

Because of our AV10 vehicles, you'll generally want to remain outside of bolter (rapid fire) range. So that would be 30+ inches. The mixing of weapons itself would not be that bad as such, but the unit cost rises along with it. DE are not like IG, where you get 3 walking assault weapons along with 7 models of cannon fodder. You pay a premium for Trueborn and they die just as easily as those IG. Better to focus on one aspect and minimize cost. It would be better to have that unit of 4 blasters and 2 splinter cannons split up into two units and take an additional Venom.

5 Kabalite Trueborn
4 blasters
Venom
Night Shields
2 Splinter cannon

5 Kabalite Trueborn
2 Splinter Cannon
Venom
Night Shields
2 splinter cannon

Seems like a lot points =/ ?

if you want to take a Talos, I recommend taking at least two. The combination of two Taloi with a Chronos allows you to quickly grant them a pain token, for an effective 5+ invulnerable save (T7, feel no pain) versus those heavy weapon that will target them. A Coven is the traditional term to indicate a Dark Eldar army consisting of Haemonculi and their creatures. So a force consisting primarily of Haemonculi, Grotesques, Wracks, Talos Pain Engines and Chronos Parasite Engines.

Saw this coming from a mile away sadly I don't think I really want 2 of them, was really thinking of running a Cronos through a webway portal could that work?

The Dark Eldar's best AA is, sadly, an Aegis Defense Line with a Quadgun. Our flyers simply can't compete with things like Heldrakes, Night Scythes and Vendettas. Due to our speed, we do have the option to avoid enemy flyers rather effectively, especially if you "see" them coming. If you do want to take a flyer and use it for anti-air, the Voidraven Bomber is the better choice, because of its +1 STR Lances. Yes, our flyers should have their names swapped.

funny

For your trueborn setups: You don't need the 5th stand-around for the blasterborns, blasters are primarily AT, that AI splinter rifle guy is just gonna be a waste of points without bringing any advantage for you. As for the 2nd build(4 blasters 2 SCs), as mentioned by others: Don't mixed roles... And by the way, splinter racks don't work on splinter cannons. For the 3rd build, drop 2 trueborns, they're expensive and not adding much. The advantage of trueborn is that there is no "you have to bring so many before you can buy any special weapon" limit to the unit, so don't waste that, take advantage of it, buy the minimal size you need to take whatever you need, learn from the popular builds Mandor showed you.

Problem with Duke is the early turn movement, you have to move him to an assault unit to fully use his wargears, that's one turn spent just juggling units around, whereas with another HQ, you could just have boosted forward and possibly getting into assault sooner. Remember, as DE, you really aren't made to last, more time you spend fiddling about means more time to get shot at by full sized forces, and that's terrible! :( He's by no mean a terrible HQ, his splinter buff is great, his drug buff as well, and his assault capability is also amazing, he just requires some more work and tactic to make him better. Oh and he doesn't have to assault with wyches, it's just that wyches benefit from his double drugs rolls, but you could well throw him into one of the popular grotesques unit or incubi.

As for deepstriking with DE, well... I'm personally not a fan of that, not only that if we're wiped while the rest of the force are in reserve, which is extremely easy given that it's an DE army, we lose the game, but you don't have as much control over reserve rolls and deep strike scatter as you do with just a flat out. Sure you lose one turn of shooting with flat out or whatnot, but don't forget you're losing a turn or 2 of shooting with them boats in reserve as well! The odd and few deepstrikers could work, but a list relying on deepstrike this ed would be hard to run, I'd think.

Disintegrator cannons are amazing, they can do good damage on TEQ units... But... AI isn't anything we're in shortage of, our splinter weapons are purely AI(they can't hurt mechs) and they're very good at it, so in general, most DE prefers to use mass of wounds to deal with 2+ infantry units, and bring more AT weapons, such as DL, because otherwise we'd have trouble opening those boxes.

As for WWP Cronos, yes it could work, but we lost 2" in WWP deployment as well, and you'd have to pay for 2 or more expensive WWP carriers(who're gonna die) to diversify your entry points so your opponent can't either avoid or camp the WWP area, so I don't know... that's a lot of points to make an average or below unit usable?? As well as the weird backfire of the improved reserve roll(coming in on a 3+), meaning you'd be in a hurry to place those WWP down before your Cronos come in...

On flyer's safety and survival, and with everything else, don't look at them alone, build your list so all your units work together. You're playing DE, what's stopping you from just taking that quad gun out turn one?

 Dezstiny wrote:

Haemonculus Vs Ancient. Depends on there jobs. I run an ancient with my wyches with a venomblade and liquifier (always have a liquifier!) because he adds some CC punch.

'
So him with a squad of what makes a good close combat unit? bouncing off that question would it be better than 4 incubi in a venom with an archon?

4 incubi in a venom with a tooled archon is pretty nasty, but only if it doesnt get shot. As soon as the venom is destroyed(first turn probably) you wont be able to get near juicy targets. Even when you do, overwatch is probably gonna kill an incubi so you are charging in with an archon and 3 incubi. The archon will get challenged and your incubi kill some stuff. It isnt that great.

The best assault unit in the DE codex is beast pack. Preferably with baron. So fast, so many wounds, so many characters for challeges. 8 razorwing flocks, 5 beast masters, and 5 kymera cost less than your archon star and will roll over it without giving a second thought. There are few things a beast pack cannot assault, and against almost all of them it will win. It also tends to win in the take low causuaties grind them down over 2 turns so you dont get shot up. Incubi on the other hand, are a very very specialized unit. They take on meq and non TH/SS teq pretty well but are generally too costly to be of much use. Their sweet spot of usefulness is very slim.

 Dezstiny wrote:

Some people like the duke, but I personally do not.
I would only take them in a combat reaver/wych HEAVY army, when rerolling the drugs becomes very useful. Start him with 10-20 simple warriors with 1-2 splinter cannons that will be the only warriors you will take becasue everything else will be wyches

So really you should still only take him if you plan on running wytches?

yup. the 3+ posion sounds cool, but then your combat character has to start the game in a shooting unit. wounding on 3+, ooo sounds sooo impressive, but it only improves your damage by 33% on one unit, wounding on 4+ with ALL your troops is pretty awesome already.
Combat drugs are awesome, but boom or bust. +1WS and reroll run arent great. Reroll to wound and +1 attack are awesome. Ensuring you get the boom and not the bust is key for wyches.

 Dezstiny wrote:

all dark lances all the time

Do all DC not usually do as well? or is their another reason for why?
all dark lances all the time

disintigrators are good if you happen to be catching non TH/SS teq out in the open. That rarely happens. Venom splinter cannons are better against virtually all other forms of infantry. 2 venoms gets 24 shots. 1 ravager gets 9 shots. Against meq not in cover the ravagers do 50% more damage. But the meq are usually in cover, so same or less damage. On the venom side, 2 vehicles with 5++ are better than 1 vehicle with AV11. The venoms dont take HS slots and can transport troops late game if they survive. So venoms are about as good as anti infantry ravagers.
Dark lance ravagers on the other hand are great anti tank platforms. Venoms cannot substitute for DL ravagers.

 Dezstiny wrote:

Remember the quad gun that almost everyone takes will kill them the turn they come on before they shoot, so dont count on them.

This is what makes me scared to take them, just really wanted to see how affective they are when they are played. Maybe a good account of an absolutely superb moment will edge to my try it out, if you have any that you can remember

Razorwings can be very very effective with those 2 pie plates and 12 anti infantry shots coming in. But only against certain armies and that quad gun will kill them very fast.
Void Ravens are pretty good at killing expensive tanks and mediocer at killing other aircraft. They are no vendetta though.
I find both of them to be fun to play, ok, but nothing to build a competitive list around.