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I've been facing Necrons. And trust me they are a tough bunch. Their reanimation protocol just makes it worst.

I have some question regarding the royal court.

Lets say my opponent attach 1 crytek to a squad of 10 immortals. And I've finished off the last 4 immortals in the squads

- Can the immortals make their reanimation roll at the end of phase since that I have not technically wiped out the whole squad(Cryptek is alive)?

- If the crytek is alive, do I get the victory point of killing the unit? Or I will have to take out him out as well?

Thanks guys.

I cant answer the second question, but unless you completely wipe out the unit or they are falling back, than they will reanimate on a 5+ unless a lord with resorb is in the unit then its 4+. Cryptek can still reanimate because of ever-living but if he is the only one left then no reanimation for the immortals.

Thanks Buddy.

I personally think that I should still get the victory point to that unit otherwise necrons will be very good in denying kill points.

kissmymom wrote:
Thanks Buddy.

I personally think that I should still get the victory point to that unit otherwise necrons will be very good in denying kill points.

You do.

If your opponent has a squad of immortals + Cryptek:

you kill all the immortals but not the cryptek: You killed a full squad of immortals. That's a kill Point

or

you kill just the cryptek and no (or some) immortals: You killed an IC: That's a killpoint.

or:

you kill the cryptek and all of the immortals: you killed an IC and a full squad of troops. Two units killed: two kill points.

 TheCaptain wrote:

kissmymom wrote:
Thanks Buddy.

I personally think that I should still get the victory point to that unit otherwise necrons will be very good in denying kill points.

You do.

If your opponent has a squad of immortals + Cryptek:

you kill all the immortals but not the cryptek: You killed a full squad of immortals. That's a kill Point

or

you kill just the cryptek and no (or some) immortals: You killed an IC: That's a killpoint.

or:

you kill the cryptek and all of the immortals: you killed an IC and a full squad of troops. Two units killed: two kill points.

Thank you Captain! So each IC in the royal court count as a kill point?

Crypteks aren't IC. They are simple character models.

If they are bound to a squad, you need to kill the entire squad and get the VP. if only the Cryptek remains, no VP.

If they are in the Royal Court, you need to destroy the entire court to get VP.

ICME wrote:
I cant answer the second question, but unless you completely wipe out the unit or they are falling back, than they will reanimate on a 5+ unless a lord with resorb is in the unit then its 4+. Cryptek can still reanimate because of ever-living but if he is the only one left then no reanimation for the immortals.

That one rage inducing apocalypse formation (you know what it is) can improve that roll to a 3+.

If only the Cryptek is left you get the kill point. As per Ever living if only the Model is alive with ever living you can have it join a squad if you can place it in coherency with another legal squad.

And you do have to kill the Royal Court off to get the other kill point.

 Kain wrote:

ICME wrote:
I cant answer the second question, but unless you completely wipe out the unit or they are falling back, than they will reanimate on a 5+ unless a lord with resorb is in the unit then its 4+. Cryptek can still reanimate because of ever-living but if he is the only one left then no reanimation for the immortals.

That one rage inducing apocalypse formation (you know what it is) can improve that roll to a 3+.

Not by RAW. Since unless they updated it, it only works with We'll Be Back.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Crypteks aren't IC. They are simple character models.

If they are bound to a squad, you need to kill the entire squad and get the VP. if only the Cryptek remains, no VP.

If they are in the Royal Court, you need to destroy the entire court to get VP.

I am pretty sure this is correct.

It cannot possible be that you would have to kill every member of that Royal Court even if they are spread throughout the table attached to other squads. It would be damn near impossible to ever kill them all.

Ugh, unless you completely wipe the squad and their sergeant, the cryptek or lord, you get NO kill point. It's the same with Thawn and St Celestine, if they keep getting up, tough on you, keep shooting.

Lords/Crypteks are like Wolf Guard attached to a unit, they are now a part of that unit and no longer their own. They are normal characters, not independent characters and they are not considered gone from the game until their token is removed.

If you got a VP for everytime you knocked them down and they stood up, no one would run them. Plus, that just fails the common sense check.

Any Cryptek or Lord join the unit of infantry, they count as a member of that unit and need to be killed for a VP. If a Lord or Cryptek is the only survivor of the unit, RP can still be taken as there is still a model alive of that unit.

 Kain wrote:

ICME wrote:
I cant answer the second question, but unless you completely wipe out the unit or they are falling back, than they will reanimate on a 5+ unless a lord with resorb is in the unit then its 4+. Cryptek can still reanimate because of ever-living but if he is the only one left then no reanimation for the immortals.

That one rage inducing apocalypse formation (you know what it is) can improve that roll to a 3+.

If there is a way to get a 3+ RP then I'm missing it somewhere, otherwise the closest you can get at least for warriors is to res some and then have a Ghost ark nearby to bring back some that did not res.

 Mythra wrote:
If only the Cryptek is left you get the kill point. As per Ever living if only the Model is alive with ever living you can have it join a squad if you can place it in coherency with another legal squad.

And you do have to kill the Royal Court off to get the other kill point.

Not according to the rules

1) The Cryptek is a normal member of the unit, meaning you must kill it to get the point
2) The rules for RP specifically state that EL models dont count for bringing back RP models. If all RP models are dead you CANNOT bring them back.
3) The rules for EL do NOT allow you to join a non-IC model to a new unit. You can ONLY join a RC member to a unit at the start of the game. The rules for EL only allow him to become his OWN unit if he CANNOT be placed in coherency with the unit they were joined to. They have NO permission to join another unit, ever. Only IC EL models could do this, and only because of the IC rule, not the EL rule.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Not according to the rules

1) The Cryptek is a normal member of the unit, meaning you must kill it to get the point
2) The rules for RP specifically state that EL models dont count for bringing back RP models. If all RP models are dead you CANNOT bring them back.
3) The rules for EL do NOT allow you to join a non-IC model to a new unit. You can ONLY join a RC member to a unit at the start of the game. The rules for EL only allow him to become his OWN unit if he CANNOT be placed in coherency with the unit they were joined to. They have NO permission to join another unit, ever. Only IC EL models could do this, and only because of the IC rule, not the EL rule.

This. This, this, this. 2 in particular - I keep seeing people getting that wrong, which is understandable, but you need to break that mental connection and consider that Reanimation Protocols and Ever-living are two different rules. The wording is pretty clear on how they interact (that is - apart from Ever-living models returning to RP units, they don't).

As has already been covered, When you attach a cryptek or lord to a unit, they become part of that unit, as per the character rules on pg 63. note that crypteks and lords are not Independent characters, and so cannot leave their squads, nor can they join other squads.

So, since they counts as part of the unit, you have to kill the whole unit, including the lord or cryptek in order to get a VP. It also means that if the lord or cryptek is the last man standing, he still counts as a scoring unit if he was attached to a unit of Warriors or Immortals.

Reanimation protocols, and ever living are two seperate rules. There are some differences between them. You can always make an ever living roll, but you cannot always make a reanimation protocols roll. In order to make a RP roll, at least one member of the unit must still be alive, but this member cannot have the Ever living rule, so you would need at least one 'normal' member of the squad to make RP rolls.

In the case of the Cryptek and immortals, The unit would still be in play, and still count as scoring, but you could not attempt any RP rolls because the reanimation protocols rule forbids it. And don't even think of asking if the ghost ark works when all thats left of a unit of warriors is the lord or cryptek, Personally, having given it a little thought, i get the impression that splitting characters off from the royal court was one of the last things they added to the book, which is why a lot of the issues are so ambiguous.

They could easily solve any and all issues with the royal court by adding the phrase 'The Lord/Cryptek does(not) count as a member of the unit (for all purposes)'