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Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter






Dimmamar

Terror from the Deep: "If a Mawloc Deep Strikes onto a point occupied by another model, do not roll on the Mishap table but instead do the following...."
Warp Quake: "Any enemy unit deploying by Deep Strike within 12" of the squad (after scattering) will automatically suffer a Mishap."

So if the Mawloc lands next to the GK, without touching any enemy models, he mishaps (via WQ). But if the Mawloc lands directly on a GKSS/GKI model, then he either does Mishap (via WQ) or does not (via TftD). Since it's the Tyranid's turn, he chooses to not Mishap.
Is this the RAW?

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Powerful Phoenix Lord





Buffalo, NY

Premises:
1. Landing on a model causes a mishap.
2. Landing in the area affected by Warp Quake causes a mishap.
3. Mawlocs do not suffer a mishap for landing on a model.
Conclusion - Warp Quake still causes a Mishap, as you do not have permission to ignore that.

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Made in us
Dakka Veteran





 Happyjew wrote:
Premises:
1. Landing on a model causes a mishap.
2. Landing in the area affected by Warp Quake causes a mishap.
3. Mawlocs do not suffer a mishap for landing on a model.
Conclusion - Warp Quake still causes a Mishap, as you do not have permission to ignore that.


+1

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Grisly Ghost Ark Driver





Contested Premise:
A single unit may suffer multiple mishaps simultaneously from different sources.

I suspect that it's possible, but it'd be nice to know if there was a specific rule addressing such.
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter






Dimmamar

 Happyjew wrote:
Premises:
1. Landing on a model causes a mishap.
2. Landing in the area affected by Warp Quake causes a mishap.
3. Mawlocs do not suffer a mishap for landing on a model.
Conclusion - Warp Quake still causes a Mishap, as you do not have permission to ignore that.


This is good reasoning.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/30 02:00:04


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The Grimdark Future 8500 1500 6000 2000 5000


"[We have] an inheritance which is beyond the reach of change and decay." 1 Peter 1.4
"With the Emperor there is no variation or shadow due to change." James 1.17
“Fear the Emperor; do not associate with those who are given to change.” Proverbs 24.21 
   
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Tilter at Windmills






Manchester, NH

 Neorealist wrote:
Contested Premise:
A single unit may suffer multiple mishaps simultaneously from different sources.

I suspect that it's possible, but it'd be nice to know if there was a specific rule addressing such.

It doesn't suffer multiple mishaps. It qualifies to suffer a single mishap, by multiple means.

Just like a unit arriving from Reserve in a Land Raider and then disembarking still can't assault; Assault Vehicle gives it an exception to the rule that you can't disembark from a vehicle and assault, but doesn't give it an exception from the prohibition on assaulting the turn you arrive from reserve.

The Mawloc arriving on top of a unit which has cast Warp Quake qualifies to Mishap for two different reasons. It has an exception from one, but not from the other.
   
Made in sg
Brainy Zoanthrope





I actually disagree.

The wording of the Mawloc does say:

"
If a Mawloc Deep Strikes onto a point occupied by another model, do not roll on the Mishap table but instead do the following....
"

So if it lands withing 12" of the WQ causing model, but hits nothing, clearly it mishaps.

If it lands on a model, the wording says to not roll on the Mishap table. It doesn't specifically annul only the mishap caused by landing on a model. It simply says to not roll on the mishap table in that case.

Essentially I disagree with this rewording:

"
3. Mawlocs do not suffer a mishap for landing on a model.
"

The rule does not say that, the rule says, if it lands on a model, do not roll a Mishap.
   
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

If it lands on a model, the wording says to not roll on the Mishap table because of the landing on the model.

The rule does not mention warp quake, so it will still mishap because of warp quake.

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Tough Tyrant Guard





SHE-FI-ELD

Don't believe its so cut and dry.

Mawlocs have a special rule which innitiates when deepstriking onto enemy models.
Warp quake is innitiated when deepstruck (eheh, deepstruck) within 12.

In Ideal circumstances you would look to resolve both.

It's my codex and I'll cry If I want to.

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Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

 Nem wrote:
Don't believe its so cut and dry.

It is actually really clear.

"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

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Made in au
Purposeful Hammerhead Pilot






Newcastle, NSW ,Australia

I would say that the mawloc ignore any form of being made to roll on the mishaps table if they hit a model. If they land next to the GK without touching then they can't ignore it because they have not landed on an model.

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Decrepit Dakkanaut






Los Angeles, CA


The Mawloc's special rule only ignores one thing that normally causes a mishap (arriving over another model), but does not ignore any other situations that cause a mishap.

So in a perfect storm of circumstances, let's say a Mawloc arrives partially over some impassable terrain, partially over a Grey Knight unit and within Warp Quake range (because that Grey Knight unit has it up and running)...what happens?


The Terror of the Deep ignores one restriction that causes a mishap (arriving on top of the Grey Knight models), but does nothing against both the impassable terrain and Warp Quake and therefore suffers a mishap.


As Ragnar mentioned, this is very similar to the good old vehicle disembark + fleet argument that some people completely got wrong. Both are basic misunderstandings about how permissions and restrictions work in a game.


The Terror from the Deep gives specific permission to ignore one (and only one) Deep Strike mishap restriction...that does not suddenly invalidate every other Deep Strike restriction in existence. Restrictions always take precedence over permissions, unless the permissions specifically say otherwise.


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Made in gb
Tough Tyrant Guard





SHE-FI-ELD

 yakface wrote:

The Mawloc's special rule only ignores one thing that normally causes a mishap (arriving over another model), but does not ignore any other situations that cause a mishap.

So in a perfect storm of circumstances, let's say a Mawloc arrives partially over some impassable terrain, partially over a Grey Knight unit and within Warp Quake range (because that Grey Knight unit has it up and running)...what happens?


The Terror of the Deep ignores one restriction that causes a mishap (arriving on top of the Grey Knight models), but does nothing against both the impassable terrain and Warp Quake and therefore suffers a mishap.


As Ragnar mentioned, this is very similar to the good old vehicle disembark + fleet argument that some people completely got wrong. Both are basic misunderstandings about how permissions and restrictions work in a game.


The Terror from the Deep gives specific permission to ignore one (and only one) Deep Strike mishap restriction...that does not suddenly invalidate every other Deep Strike restriction in existence. Restrictions always take precedence over permissions, unless the permissions specifically say otherwise.



This makes sense, I somehow got it into my head SubAssault utilised Deepstrike rather than a effect from, that fluffy stuff getting in the way =/.

It's my codex and I'll cry If I want to.

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Made in gb
Elite Tyranid Warrior




I have both a GK and a 'Nid army and I have to agree with the pro Warp Quake argument. The Mawloc would still have to roll a misshap unless its rules specified that it ignores Warp Quake.

If it makes it easier, think of this way:

Immagine that Warp Quake is a huge pie plate area effect within which the GK Strike Squad are stood. Assuming the Mawloc is arriving directly beneath one or more of the GK Strike Squad models it would not suffer a misshap based on his Terror From The Deep rule (not having to roll a misshap if he lands on an enemy model). However although he circumvents the normal misshap rules via Terror From The Deep, he's still arriving within the Warp Quake pie plate area effect, and is therefore forced to misshap.

So...

1. Warp Quake is cast by GK Strike Squad
2. Mawloc rolls scatter to Deep Strike via Terror From The Deep
3. Direct hit beneath GK Strike Squad
4. The Terror From The Deep rule allows Mawloc to not suffer a misshap for arriving on top of (or in this case beneath) an enemy model
5. Warp Quake is still active in the area that the enemy model is standing, forcing the Mawloc to suffer a misshap

There's no two ways about it folks, you aren't circumventing Warp Quake unless the rule says 'ignores the effects of Warp Quake'.
   
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Dakka Veteran




Isnt it a roll off whenever what effect happen first?
the BRB says something about effects that happens at once you roll to see which resolves first.

So two scenarios:
Mawloc rolls on mishap first and its attack doesnt happen due to mishap.
-or-
Mawloc first do his hits and then suffer the mishap.

Is this how its meant to be resolved?

 
   
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Novice Knight Errant Pilot





Baltimore

No, it's not.

 
   
Made in ca
Lieutenant Colonel






The mawloc suffers mishaps from warp quake, period,
weather or not it ignores the mishap from landing on a model, is completely irrelevant when deciding if it ignores mishaps from any other source (warp quake, going off the table, impassable terrain, ect)


 
   
 
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