Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I am starting a smallish force of black dragons, around 500 at the least 1000 at the most. What codex would work best to represent them?

That is a good question. The info on Lexicanum has basically no info on their organization other than the Dragon Claws being sorted into their own CC-oriented squads. Maybe a better approach would be to eliminate codexes.

Grey Knights - Absolutely not. No reason to have weird equipment and ubiquitous psychic powers.
Black Templar - I've never faced the BT codex, but I know it's outdated. Probably best to rule this out and revisit when they get their (supposedly soon) revamp.
Dark Angels - It explicitly mentions that DA won't work with them due to mutations, so it seems unlikely they're a successor. No reason to think they use anything like Deathwing/Ravenwing.
Space Wolves - Space Wolves should be CC-oriented, but their codex doesn't really support that. No mention of animal companions to substitute for Thunderwolves.

So that leaves us with Blood Angels and Codex Marines. Of the two, I'd probably lean more toward BA, since the only good melee option in C:SM is Hammernators, which don't really support a counts-as-Dragon-Claws. It mentions the Death Company as similar to Claws, but that's just about segregating them from regular squads. I'd probably suggest running the Claws as Assault Marines so that they can be scoring units, and so that you can give the sergeant dual LC (Death Company can't take LC! WTF is that?). I'd also probably stay away from the more esoteric stuff like Librarian Dreads and Mephiston, but if you can come up with a good fluff rationale go for it.

Warning: I am really not trying to create an optimal BA list here, in part because I have never played BA. I just think that you can get closest to a fluffy and reasonably competent list with them.

I would also go with Blood Angels as mentioned because they mention similarities to the death company and these bad asses seem to favour close combat and I would assume favour assault troops fitting the dragon (flying) aesthetic. Perhaps also those flamethrower tanks?

 psychadelicmime wrote:
I am starting a smallish force of black dragons, around 500 at the least 1000 at the most. What codex would work best to represent them?

Black Dragons can mean an awful lot of things. I'm assuming you mean the D&D variety that lives in swamps and spits acid?

 Kain wrote:

 psychadelicmime wrote:
I am starting a smallish force of black dragons, around 500 at the least 1000 at the most. What codex would work best to represent them?

Black Dragons can mean an awful lot of things. I'm assuming you mean the D&D variety that lives in swamps and spits acid?

We are in 40k background, I don't see D&D anywhere. From my reading of Black Dragons, they seem like they'd fit into Black Templars the most or Blood Angels. If I was getting into Black Dragons now, I'd go for BA simply because they have the most up to date codex out of the two.

Thanks for the advice! Blood angels it is then. Although I meant the space marines with bones coming out of their skin that they use to kill things with, I'll try to be more specific by what I mean with black dragons next time, sorry!

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Black_Dragons#.UYA-eMpu98E

I didn't recognize the name, but it sounded like a Marine chapter so I checked Lexicanum and there it was. I will admit my first thought was also D&D black dragons, but people are usually a lot more defensive when they try to bring stuff like that into 40k where it doesn't belong

They...coat their bone bits with admantium?


Does GW not understand that admantium is not a color of paint?

To be honest, though, the Black Dragons strike me as a Chapter being "famous" for how they look doing something, rather than how well they do it. I'm not sure that using what amounts to a sharp bit of bone to kill a dude is somehow better than, you know, a chain-axe or a powersword. I'm not sure the pro-CC Chapters are a good template. Might want to stick with vanilla SM.

Maybe they melted the adamantium and applied liberally to the area they wanted to coat? Or maybe they do the thing they do to cars where you plate the metal with zinc, can't remember what you call it.

I think keeping their blades as their weapons is a fine idea, these guys are super humans, whose blades clearly dont break or damage easy otherwise they would not have their reputation of placing value on the blades. All I can say is, I dont think anything would last very long taking a punch from a super human with a huge ass blade as the point of contact.

 Psienesis wrote:
They...coat their bone bits with admantium?


Does GW not understand that admantium is not a color of paint?

To be honest, though, the Black Dragons strike me as a Chapter being "famous" for how they look doing something, rather than how well they do it. I'm not sure that using what amounts to a sharp bit of bone to kill a dude is somehow better than, you know, a chain-axe or a powersword. I'm not sure the pro-CC Chapters are a good template. Might want to stick with vanilla SM.

BA Assault Marines aren't any better at CC than the ones from C:SM. They just emphasize it tactically, and thus their Assault Marines are troops. I think it's a great way to represent a preference rather than a superior aptitude.

Personally I'd stick with vanilla, the old trial Cursed Founding list portrayed the Minotaurs as frothing bloodthirsty lunatics to a man but the Black Dragons simply got to upgrade their Assault Squads (which remained as Fast Attack) to have Rending, Blood Angels used to be a good fit if you wanted to copy the rules but Death Company don't have rending anymore and are better suited to footslogging gunners.

BA.
Heavy CQC, plus DC can count as SpecialUnitofTheBlackDragonswhoNameIdon'tRecall.

Honestly, I would just use whichever codex you want to play most, and then model the figs to look like Black Dragons, since I don't think there is any specific mechanic that is essential to making a Black Dragons list.

Here's the old IA article on using Cursed Founding Chapters

http://redelf.naxx.ru/w40k/ia/w40k_ia_cf_0.html

For more fluff click the linkadink in my sig

BA death company, every time

 Jimsolo wrote:
Honestly, I would just use whichever codex you want to play most, and then model the figs to look like Black Dragons, since I don't think there is any specific mechanic that is essential to making a Black Dragons list.

Actually, there is: Death Company. I'm reading the "The Death of Antagonis" book, and it's about the Black Dragons. They have some Claws that are so mutated, they have to keep them hidden inside the battle-barges, away from public eyes. They then release them in a suicidal attack, hoping their mutated brothers are able to die with dignity and honor serving the God-Emperor.

So, yeah, not only are they very CC oriented thanks to the Claws, there's that. So I say BA.

P.S: I also liked the BD look a lot even before reading this book, so I always considered creating a BA "Count-as" army with them. It's still a long way before I do this, but if you could create a P&M blog or showcase explaining how you did the claws, scales on armor and their Dragon symbols, I would be thankful

 TheDraconicLord wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
Honestly, I would just use whichever codex you want to play most, and then model the figs to look like Black Dragons, since I don't think there is any specific mechanic that is essential to making a Black Dragons list.

Actually, there is: Death Company. I'm reading the "The Death of Antagonis" book, and it's about the Black Dragons. They have some Claws that are so mutated, they have to keep them hidden inside the battle-barges, away from public eyes. They then release them in a suicidal attack, hoping their mutated brothers are able to die with dignity and honor serving the God-Emperor.

Ha that is awesome. So technically no one knows of their special weapon?

I would actually go with Chaos, Warp Talons and Possessed seem like good matches. Especially if you just keep away from the totally Chaosy things, stick with a generic lord and some CSM mainly.

 unmercifulconker wrote:

 TheDraconicLord wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
Honestly, I would just use whichever codex you want to play most, and then model the figs to look like Black Dragons, since I don't think there is any specific mechanic that is essential to making a Black Dragons list.

Actually, there is: Death Company. I'm reading the "The Death of Antagonis" book, and it's about the Black Dragons. They have some Claws that are so mutated, they have to keep them hidden inside the battle-barges, away from public eyes. They then release them in a suicidal attack, hoping their mutated brothers are able to die with dignity and honor serving the God-Emperor.

Ha that is awesome. So technically no one knows of their special weapon?

Here's the passage;
"They held a special group of Black Dragons. They were the blessed, and they were abominations. Mutated far beyond even Volo's distortions, they were monsters of spikes and horns and scales. Huge, muscled, slavering, they were trapped in a permanent predator rage, and their snarls echoed faintly down the corridors to the chapel. They were berserkers who were kept alive until they could be unleashed to find their final peace in frenzied suicide missions. Toharan had heard that the Blood Angels had a similar squad of the damned, but those warriors, however tortured their minds, were not physical grotesques. The Dragons abominations were, he believed, an unconscionable risk. Even hidden they were a provocation to the Inquisition. They should be exterminated as soon as they developed. But they were algo the logical end-point of Chaplain Massorus theology. If one must bless the curse, then the most cursed were the most sacred. They could not tbe touched. Only the battlefield could end their torment and their duty."