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HQ
Overlord + Warscythe, MSS, SW
Overlord + Gauntlet of fire

Royal Court
6 Harbinger of Despair
1 Harbinger of Destruction + Solar Pulse

Elites
3x5 Deathmarks + Night Scythe each

Troops
5 Warriors + Ghost Ark
2x5 Warriors + Night Scythe each
6 Warriors

Heavy Support
3 A. Barge

Fortification
Bastion+ Comms Relay

Pretty simple tactic here, wipe out most inconvenient enemy units with death&despair squads (2 harbinger of despair with 5 deathmarks, they can choose one enemy unit and mark it in order to wound it on 2+, so we get 10 sniper shots with 2 templates AP1 wounding on 2+), theyre infantry killers, this list has kinda light troops but it has also massive firepower. I think comms relay is vital here because we need our flyers as soon as possible.
What you think about this? Is it worth swapping ghost ark for additional night scythe for warriors?

whoops nvm

looks fine, but i hate seeing 6 warriors on foot. They will die every game

i think he intends for them to be in the bastion

yup or just hide behind bastion if no barrage

im thinking of balancing troops and their transports- 3 Night Scythes or 2 ghost ark + 1 Night Scythe or current configuration 1 ghost ark + 2 Night Scythe?

If I would play only Night Scythes for transport I would fit here some haywiretek also.

What's y'all opinion?

weak list, any opp flyer or skyfire gonna run away from your range n focus on night scythes with deathmarks, when you lose them you dont have anything powerful accept some teslas which aint good against everything, also new tau gonna tear your list apart, so many interceptor should kill disembarking deathmarks after that you aint have anything to kill them

Interesting list.

Looking at the HQ, that second overlord seems a total waste of points. I realise that you need it to attach two despairteks to each D&D squad, but I really don't think that is paying off. If you are going to keep him at least get MSS, or a warscythe on him.

If you ditch the second overlord with associated reduction in despairteks, you can (pick flavour here):

a) Add extra deathmarks
b) Add stormteks to give the warriors some anti vehicle.
c) Add a resorb to the overlord.

As for the ghost ark, I'm wavering. 5 warriors in a GA just mean 5 walking warriors (because what else is the opp going to shoot at on turn 1? They should shoot the ark to get at the warriors first) . Maybe ditch it and beef the squad sizes (or convert up to immortals).

With 5 scythes, I wouldn't be concerned about flyers and tbh, not that stressed about CC (you should be able to keep picking up and putting the deathmarks down).

At any rate, with this list the opponents plan is going to go to hell in a handbasket IF the D&D squads come in mostly together. If they come in 1 at a time, they'll get chewed up.

Yup second overlord is only to get possibility of fielding more crypteks. The cheapest option. Maybe not waste of point he carry gaunlet of fire which is another template wounding on 2+ helpful against hordes. I had not any points left for mss nad ws.

Its my first emobdiment of this kind of list, I havent given this list much thought.

Maybe get here Imotekh? Automatic night and additional shooting. Zandrekh was fine with phased reinforcement (there was no need taking comms relay with him) but now when faq remove deepstriking for flyers he isnt effective here, but stealth tank hunters and nullifing night vision is temtping.

If I have my troops built like this
3x5 warriors in NS, I would give them stormteks
I think it may be worth taking additional GA here, and maybe increase nw number in arks as you said. Dont know which option will be better. If I play only NS at the begining of game I will have only 3 barges and 5 nw in bastion I hope opponent wont be able to table me, new ravenwing is dangerous in this matter, a lot of meltas multi meltas on very fast deadly squads, 12" deployment 12" scout 12" move, hello your barges disappeared.

Dont think extra deathmarks needed here. Resorb is interesting thing, but Im affraid that this squad gonna die first of shooting so that it wont be able to roll for RP at all.


"At any rate, with this list the opponents plan is going to go to hell in a handbasket IF the D&D squads come in mostly together. If they come in 1 at a time, they'll get chewed up. " what do you mean here Mark? Im not pretty sure cause my knowledge of language is not sufficient- you mean here that its very important to have all deathscythe in one turn yes? Perform alpha strike with them?

SwistakCZC wrote:Yup second overlord is only to get possibility of fielding more crypteks. The cheapest option. Maybe not waste of point he carry gaunlet of fire which is another template wounding on 2+ helpful against hordes. I had not any points left for mss nad ws.

Sure, but you are putting a lot of points into getting that second despairtek into each squad, which is not getting any more survivable. The despairtek is 30 points and you can get 2 more deathmarks for that (which will make the squad more survivable). Plus, the 100 points for the overlord. Also, to get the best use out of the templates they will be near the front of the squad, so will die first to shooting.

SwistakCZC wrote:
Its my first emobdiment of this kind of list, I havent given this list much thought.

Maybe get here Imotekh? Automatic night and additional shooting. Zandrekh was fine with phased reinforcement (there was no need taking comms relay with him) but now when faq remove deepstriking for flyers he isnt effective here, but stealth tank hunters and nullifing night vision is temtping.

I wouldn't take Imotekh. Too expensive and Night Fight is not an advantage for you.

SwistakCZC wrote:If I have my troops built like this
3x5 warriors in NS, I would give them stormteks

Yep - at least a couple

SwistakCZC wrote:I think it may be worth taking additional GA here, and maybe increase nw number in arks as you said. Dont know which option will be better. If I play only NS at the begining of game I will have only 3 barges and 5 nw in bastion I hope opponent wont be able to table me, new ravenwing is dangerous in this matter, a lot of meltas multi meltas on very fast deadly squads, 12" deployment 12" scout 12" move, hello your barges disappeared.

Given the small number of troops, I'd keep the rest in Scythes to give you mobility.

SwistakCZC wrote:Dont think extra deathmarks needed here. Resorb is interesting thing, but Im affraid that this squad gonna die first of shooting so that it wont be able to roll for RP at all.

I meant res orb with the extra deathmarks (say 8 in the squad).

SwistakCZC wrote:"At any rate, with this list the opponents plan is going to go to hell in a handbasket IF the D&D squads come in mostly together. If they come in 1 at a time, they'll get chewed up. " what do you mean here Mark? Im not pretty sure cause my knowledge of language is not sufficient- you mean here that its very important to have all deathscythe in one turn yes? Perform alpha strike with them?

Yep. But you won't get an alpha strike cos the flyers don't come in until turn 2 at earliest. Just make sure that the Deathmarks hit the table (as opposed to being in the scythe) at the same time to split up the return fire.

Thank for discussion. Youre probably right with Imotekh but Zandrekh? Does he fit here?

Ok so now I understand, remove OL and run only 4 Despairteks yup? But in advance have bigger deathmarks squad, one with res orb. Not sure if 6 despairteks are better, cause like you've already said they gonna die easily.

Maybe it will be worth taking 2 arks with more warriors and 2 solarteks, first night fight to protect ground things second to protect arriving flyers. Its more targets in first turn and 5 av13 vehicles with av14 bastion isnt so easy to remove.

And Im worried that opponents gonna just deploy near the edge and I have only 30" range with my deathndespair squads, it means that I will disembark them in turn 3 so opponent will have more opportunity to shoot down NS and then with deathmarks in reserve its very sad situation

 SwistakCZC wrote:
Thank for discussion. Youre probably right with Imotekh but Zandrekh? Does he fit here?

Zahndrek?? Well he has a res orb and you can give a special rule to one of your units (I normally find Stealth, Tank hunters, Night Vision, Furious Charge and counterattack useful) and take away a USR from an enemy unit. Generally I find this really useful in games (scarabs with furious charge! or a flyer with stealth) so generally I'll take Zahndrek unless I really need a warscythe/MSS. Z can also let you bring in your reserves during the enemy turn (if they bring in reserves) which may help here (as you can get the flyers on the board as soon as the opponent brings in a reserve unit). Of course, you'll eat a turn of shooting.

 SwistakCZC wrote:

Ok so now I understand, remove OL and run only 4 Despairteks yup? But in advance have bigger deathmarks squad, one with res orb. Not sure if 6 despairteks are better, cause like you've already said they gonna die easily.

Yes, ditch the OL and 3 despairteks, use the points for more deathmarks. Don't forget that any deathmark squad can use any other Deathmark squad marker, so having more longer range sniper shots may work to your favour.

 SwistakCZC wrote:
Maybe it will be worth taking 2 arks with more warriors and 2 solarteks, first night fight to protect ground things second to protect arriving flyers. Its more targets in first turn and 5 av13 vehicles with av14 bastion isnt so easy to remove.

And Im worried that opponents gonna just deploy near the edge and I have only 30" range with my deathndespair squads, it means that I will disembark them in turn 3 so opponent will have more opportunity to shoot down NS and then with deathmarks in reserve its very sad situation

Your call on the GA.

Re the deployment of deathmarks, you can always take a veil and start one group on the table, just veil to any really far away targets.

MarkCron wrote:

Zahndrek?? Well he has a res orb and you can give a special rule to one of your units (I normally find Stealth, Tank hunters, Night Vision, Furious Charge and counterattack useful) and take away a USR from an enemy unit. Generally I find this really useful in games (scarabs with furious charge! or a flyer with stealth) so generally I'll take Zahndrek unless I really need a warscythe/MSS. Z can also let you bring in your reserves during the enemy turn (if they bring in reserves) which may help here (as you can get the flyers on the board as soon as the opponent brings in a reserve unit). Of course, you'll eat a turn of shooting.

Not anymore, faq do not allow flyers to deep strike- I dont understand that. He is useful due to RO and special rules he can provide. CC lord is useful but deathmarks generally are suicidal squad and gonna become bullet magnets after disembarking and some of them gonna die, Zandrekh is better wound-catcher

MarkCron wrote:

Re the deployment of deathmarks, you can always take a veil and start one group on the table, just veil to any really far away targets.

I dont find deep striking them good idea. Too easy to mishap.

Im also worried about fighting against Tau, riptides with ions with interceptor can shoot at deathmarks after disembarking and kill them before they manage to do anything. And a lot of skyfire is also dangerous.

But generally I wanna try something different from Wraithwing, and thnik that deatmark build and wraithwing are strongest cron lists possible now.

Depends on the size of the group and what you want to do with them.

5+veiltek is generally not a huge footprint and starting them on the the table gives you alpha strike and possibly first blood.

I wanted to reduce some points and here we are:

1850 D&D #1

HQ
Overlord + MSS, Warscythe, sv2+
Overlord + Gauntlet of fire

Royal Court
5 Harbinger of despair
1 Harbinger of destruction + solar pulse

Elite
5 Deathmarks + Night Scythe
5 Deathmarks + Night Scythe
5 Deathmarks + Night Scythe

Troops
5 Warriors + Night Scythe
5 Warriors + Night Scythe
5 Warriors + Night Scythe
5 Warriors

Fortification
Bastion + Comms Relay

HS
2 A. Barge

1850 D&D #2

HQ
Overlord + MSS, Warscythe, sv2+
Overlord + Gauntlet of fire

Royal Court
6 Harbinger of despair
1 Harbinger of destruction + solar pulse

Elite
5 Deathmarks + Night Scythe
5 Deathmarks + Night Scythe
5 Deathmarks + Night Scythe

Troops
5 Warriors + Night Scythe
6 Warriors + Ghost Ark
6 Warriors + Ghost Ark
5 Warriors

Fortification
Bastion + Comms Relay

HS
1 A. Barge


Main drawback of first list is lack of answer for AV14, LR aint common recently but generally it would be worth placing there harbinger of storm. But its so hard to find some points for him. Maybe I should drop one barge? Or take off some stuff from warlord? What ya think?

Second list seems to be more complete one. I would like to fit second barge, but to acheive this I should take off warlord stuff and get rid of one despairtek, dont think its worth it. I can also remove one despairtek and exchange OL for Zandrekh.

Other possibilities to do with those lists is as MarkCron suggested to remove one squad of death&despair fit there more deathmarks and OL with RO in order to increase their survability. I can also make one deep strike squad of deathmark with veil of darkness to make some points. But firstly Ive tried to build this with my own concept.

I suggest you try them and see which one you prefer.

Yes I think its best thing to do. Ive analysed it theoretically and now its time to test it.

But generally I think that Im gonna play list w/o GA.

1850 death&despair

OL (Warlord) - Warscythe, Weave 115
OL - Gauntlet of fire 95
3 DespairTeks 90
2 DespairTeks 60
1 SolarTek 55
1 Stormtek 25

3 Night Scythes w/ 5 Deathmarks each. 585

Night Scythe - 5 Warriors 165
Night Scythe - 5 Warriors 165
5 Warriors 65
5 Warriors 65

Imperial Bastion, Comms Relay 95

3 A.Barges 270
1850


I can remove Stormtek add MSS back and have 10 spare points for dont know what. Im curious how would it work if I remove bastion and add ADL with comms relay this choice will provide me some points for having either MSS and stormtek. Or I can just screw AV14 and dont have stormtek at all. Disembarking stormtek and nw can be dangerous cause they gonna probably draw some fire and it can be easy way to lose troops. Sorry for spamming with one topic all the time now, but I want to get some feedback before I collect models, but colaterally Im gonna start some tests and play against some top armies to see if it works properly.

Warscythe and MSS is an auto include for me on all overlords.

If you are collecting models, you can convert them from warriors - just stick a variety of bits and pieces onto them. You'll have plenty, because there are lots of useful things in the immortal/deathmark boxes.

Btw, you can stick warrior chests and legs onto Immortal backs and heads to make immortals from your deathmark boxes if you want.

I think for points lower than 2k, we can have one additional flamer from OL- gautlet of fire. Maybe it will be better to have fully equipped OL rather than this stormtek.

When you MarkCron play death&despair do you use any fortification?

I converted crypteks from deathmarks heads, pretorians jumpacks and lychguards bodies. I need bastion, additional scythe and 15 deathmarks. But its good idea to convert some more models rather than buying. I have a lot of metal immortals remaining from 4th ed

Btw. Best Regards for you, I can see youre Swede, recently on Polish Championship I played against your countryman that game was fun and very pleasant, you Swedish are great easy-going people

I like the warscythe because it is hugely flexible for 10 pts. Anti infantry - check. Anti vehicle - check. I occasionally detach my olords and send them to tie up MC or kill vehicles so I need that flexibility (also MSS and SW).

However, if you are putting the olord into the D&D squad, I can see that another flamer might help.

When I play D&D, it is usually just one squad (Cryptek, 7 Deathmarks) in anything below 1750. From 1750 up I'll usually have 2 squads (5 Deathmarks each).

I don't use fortifications in general as I prefer a more mobile strategy - generally I won't have a static gunline. Each to their own strategy however.

Actually, I'm Australian - I'm only in Sweden for a couple of years on a work transfer - but we're pretty laid back too!

Yup I love warscythe too, but I use one almost-naked OL as nescessary tax to get acces to great number of crypteks. In bigger games I will equip him with more stuff.

If you play just one squad its not pure D&D, do you use also wraiths or something?

I think that in case of fortification comms relay are extremely useful, but more mobile strategy with great number of mobile troops is also ok.

Aww I was mislead by flag next to your nick. So if youre laid back too I wish I could play with Australian one day