Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey Dakka, I'm building a custom Space Marine army (Sigh...I'd avoid it if I could, I just love Anvil Industries "Black Ops" too much.) and because its a fluff based "realism" army list I need some special rules to go along with it. Most, if not all Space Marine armys' have some sort of power swords\fists\wtfever but I really don't want to include un-fluffy melee weapons if I don't have to. Thats sucks for me because Space Marine characters are for the most part bad ass melee machines that deal tons of death with their melee power weapons. The question I have to ask myself (and Dakka) is how do I produce the amount of kills\damage that they(SM Characters) would deal in a game without the normal way they deal it? The only answer I could think of for a while is special rules that buff the army instead of the characters which without their rules would be just another Space Marine...For example, here is an idea for a Space Marine character in my army

Forward Air Controler - ??points
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
4 4 4 4 1 4 1 10 3+

Special Rules:
CAS, This is FAC. (Combat Air Suport) (Forward Air Controller)
While the Forward Air Controller is alive and on the board all aircraft gain +1 to their BS

Okay well, let's see... got a few questions

Most, if not all Space Marine armys' have some sort of power swords\fists\wtfever but I really don't want to include un-fluffy melee weapons if I don't have to. Thats sucks for me because Space Marine characters are for the most part bad ass melee machines that deal tons of death with their melee power weapons.

I'm sorry, but I don't get it. You want melee weapons...but don't want them? Can you clear this up?

As far as your rules idea, it is very easy to get into a slippery slope. Marine characters may be awesome beatsticks, but that power is confined to one model. When you introduce army-wide buffs, you run a severe risk of a character making the army overpowered because that awesome power is multiplied across multiple models.

I find it is genreally better to think of broader concepts. What do you want your army to behave like?

'Realistic' modern day special forces tactic type things are really, really out of place in the 40k-verse. The prevailing strategy is "drive the tank closer so I can hit them with my sword"

I also think it would be a good idea to have BS 5 Vendettas.

 curran12 wrote:
Okay well, let's see... got a few questions

Most, if not all Space Marine armys' have some sort of power swords\fists\wtfever but I really don't want to include un-fluffy melee weapons if I don't have to. Thats sucks for me because Space Marine characters are for the most part bad ass melee machines that deal tons of death with their melee power weapons.

I'm sorry, but I don't get it. You want melee weapons...but don't want them? Can you clear this up?

As far as your rules idea, it is very easy to get into a slippery slope. Marine characters may be awesome beatsticks, but that power is confined to one model. When you introduce army-wide buffs, you run a severe risk of a character making the army overpowered because that awesome power is multiplied across multiple models.

I find it is genreally better to think of broader concepts. What do you want your army to behave like?

I don't want melee weapons but they are the game winning weapons for Space Marines and their characters.
I guess I'd make the army perform like a mobile Tau force? Instead of devilfish I'd be using Stormravens, Razorbacks, and Rinos.

I was thinking the army wide buffs would be balanced by the fact the SM character that is giving them can be killed as easy as any other SM. Maybe a player could roll a D3 and thats how many flyers he could give a -1 bs (+1 eh? not really playing the game yet just into the hobby portions.) to?

 Newabortion wrote:
not really playing the game yet just into the hobby portions

This is the problem. You need to get some experience playing the game before you'll understand it enough to come up with balanced house rules.

I don't think a JTAC(or FAC as you called it) is really very Space Marine-y. Space Marines are highly trained enough, and with comms link and targeting equipment being what it is, a "specialized" space marine isn't necessary. But I'll add my input. Adding +1 to any any and all friendly aircraft is a little on the extreme side. Maybe change to the rule to something similar to a signum from a devastator sergeant. How about:

Forward Air Controller: Once per turn, instead of shooting the FAC may increase the ballistic skill to of a Space Marine flyer to BS5 for the remainder of the turn. Declare this before any rolls are made.

Thats a little more fair, I think.

 Peregrine wrote:
I also think it would be a good idea to have BS 5 Vendettas.

You make me chuckle, Peregrine.

The way I see it is you want a shooty space marine army that is as realistic as you can get. Which isn't much i might add. You dont have to add in new units for this, what you have to do is, like every other 'different' C:SM chaoter is to add a special character.

Insted of being a beat stick give him an awesome shooting weapon for exmple

Barrage pattern plasma gun
str 7 ap 2 gets hot, assault 3, Firing modes.

Firing modes:- once per game (insert name here) can widen the magnetic coil and realese the awesome power of the captured sun.

str 7 ap 2 Torren flash scar.

Flash scar: after firing(insert name) suffers a wound just as gets hot.

Then make him change combat tactics to what you want. You want realism as in gun fights maybe it lets all marines presicion strike, or maybe its just a simple +1 for your reserves, -1 for the enemy. You really dont have to make your own codex when the frame work is right there through combat tactics.

Damn guys, I've read many times that Dakka Dakka is the place where dreams die but I always thought they were referring to GWs' dreams. Lol anyways, Yeah I do need to get some game time in but its difficult when you only have a squad or two and you don't know any body in the area. I live in the st.louis area and have made a post on the "find a game" thread.

I know its silly to have a realistic army or try to have one perform that way, but I'm not in the competitive scene obviously and I'd still like to give it a shot. That's where my inexperience shows I suppose.

I guess I could try to make a very shooty character, but what if SM characters could give orders like IG command teams?

6th Ed. has a list of Psychic Disciplines. You could treat them as an innate ability and pick one's effect, say Misfortune (target within 24" must re-roll saves) for example and apply it to your leader. It wouldn't be overpowering but it would give him a boost.

*Lightbulb* So you want a force multiplier instead of a beat stick? Have you heared of the Damocles Rhino? Its exactly what you want, a non-combat command vehicle. Its super cheap for 60pts and comes with orbital bombardment and re-roll reserves or something. So its your FAC in a rhino controlling the battle field,, does that sound like the kind of thing you wanted?

Yes it does. how do I get one?

Damocles Command Vehicle

Bs 5 Avengers, your monstrous creatures can cry now.

Carresuith wrote:
Damocles Command Vehicle

Always one of my favorite models for Apoc.

One of the most cost effecient single vehicles in the game before its update in the last IA. It was amazing for Deathwing lists in Apoc and amazing for Dual-wing lists in regular 40k. It was decimating because it provided three benefits depending on the game type:

Apoc games:
Orbital Bombardment and re-roll scatter on Teleporting units

40k games:
+1 to Reserve Rolls(I believe?) and re-roll scatter on Teleporting units

AMAZING for 60 points. In order to just get Orbital Bombardment for an army in Apoc the rules state you need to allocate 250 points from your army to pick up an additional asset. Granted the Rhino could be destroyed before the Bombardment has a chance to go off...but still...