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Currently running 2 Ethereals and 72 firewarriors at 1k, with EMPathfinders and a hammerhead. It's working wonderfully, and I think tossing in 3 riptides for 1500 would be the next logical step.

72 firewarriors with Ethereals gives you over 200 shots when rapidfiring. The ability to focus down anything within 30" for 2 turns before rapidfire range is reached has so far proven unbeatable in my local meta, so I'd love to hear some detractors -- or some wisdom on how to make it work even better.

How do you deal with T9 Hive Flyrants?
It sounds like a great setup, but I can't help wondering what you'd do against something you can't wound very efficiently, such as a T9 MC.

Obviously you have the Hammerhead, but its only a single shot gun, and once taken out, leaves a fairly big hole in your lines.

What about Battlewagon spam from 5th ed? its likely you'll overwatch everything to death, but if you don't, its a lot of dead tau in combat.

Only nitpicking mind, tbh the T9 thing and AV14 is the only 2 things I can thing may pose a problem. Then again, it depends on your local meta

Against Battle Wagons, I've started taking EMP's on my pathies as noted - it lets them one-off most vehicles. Rapidfire changes means I can usually get rear or side armour against most vehicles. As for T9 flyrants, grounding them repeatedly has proven fun and effective, and they aren't always T9

Once my Riptides come in, these problems go away ;P

 Vallhemn wrote:
How do you deal with T9 Hive Flyrants?
It sounds like a great setup, but I can't help wondering what you'd do against something you can't wound very efficiently, such as a T9 MC.

Obviously you have the Hammerhead, but its only a single shot gun, and once taken out, leaves a fairly big hole in your lines.

What about Battlewagon spam from 5th ed? its likely you'll overwatch everything to death, but if you don't, its a lot of dead tau in combat.

Only nitpicking mind, tbh the T9 thing and AV14 is the only 2 things I can thing may pose a problem. Then again, it depends on your local meta

You actually can't wound a T9 monster with Pulse rifles at all.

How do you deal with IG artillery lines, leman russ spam, aircav, or mechvets?

Most of those out range you by ~40" and some of those you only have 1 gun that can scratch them.

Swap a few firewarriors for a full sniper drone squad, 3 precision pinning rending shots at 24 inches with an etherial and three markerlights, allows you to kil TEQ MEQ and MCs more cost efficiently than plasma crisis with more range to boot, whilst also shoring up your mc weakness.

Triple thunderfire canons would love you. Thats only 300 points and it is probably the most efficient tau killer I have seen. DE can out range you al game with NS and torrent down your warriors. Really there are quite a few troublesome areas BUT that said I love the idea of 72 FW on the table and I think its great in 1500+ games but a bit too unstable at 1000. At higher point levels you can smooth out any rough spot as your FOC is relatively untouched.

Go for 144 Fire warriors in a double FOC game and tell us about how it goes.

 Kain wrote:
Go for 144 Fire warriors in a double FOC game and tell us about how it goes.

ROFL, I wouldn't want to paint 144 FW...

As he said killing flyrants isn't about damging them but grounding them. And there is same chance he'll be T7 or T8. But yeah situation kinda sucks. Btw Helldrakes would love this list and melt eveything.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Go for 144 Fire warriors in a double FOC game and tell us about how it goes.

ROFL, I wouldn't want to paint 144 FW...

You're talking to someone who's had to paint thousands of gaunts in his career.

Female dog please.

 ansacs wrote:
How do you deal with IG artillery lines, leman russ spam, aircav, or mechvets?

Most of those out range you by ~40" and some of those you only have 1 gun that can scratch them.

In 1k games?

This is a 1k point list, there's not gonna be triple land raider lists or anything similar, mostly lots of troops and maybe 1 or 2 big monsters. He said he'd add riptides at higher levels and those can shore up his high str weapon deficiency.

That seems like the kind of army that would hate to see a couple of ghost arks (lol, go right ahead and try and charge them with EMP-wielding pathfinders) and some annihilation barges across the field.

It does fulfill the maxim of boys before toys though, and should be competitive enough vs. most things.

 chrisrawr wrote:

 ansacs wrote:
How do you deal with IG artillery lines, leman russ spam, aircav, or mechvets?

Most of those out range you by ~40" and some of those you only have 1 gun that can scratch them.

In 1k games?

I know people (myself included) that will take multiple russes and artillery in only 1000 points. Heck, 2 russes and a bassie is only a little over 400 points I believe, which isn't an unreasonable amount of points to spend on ordnance in an IG list.

It's a lot of S5 guns, and just about no markerlights turn 1 if your enemy brings any armor. That makes the firewarriors shooting at BS3 and the Ionhead allowing coversaves. 1st turn seems rather weak really.

It's also heavily reliant on a decent amount of T3 4+ save models, two of which will have extra VPs. Really it just seems like there are too many easy counters to this list, and most of them would probably be minimal changes to a standard list, that would completely wreck this army.

 Badablack wrote:
This is a 1k point list, there's not gonna be triple land raider lists or anything similar, mostly lots of troops and maybe 1 or 2 big monsters. He said he'd add riptides at higher levels and those can shore up his high str weapon deficiency.

Grey Knights could go three raiders

Coteaz

3 warrior acolytes
3 warrior acolytes

Crusader, psybolt, melta
Crusader, psybolt, melta
Land Raider, melta

929 points...just add more warriors to the squads, give them melta guns and add a third squad. Put them all in raiders and profit.


Also drop pod lists should do well against this. There is no interceptor that Tau can use quite well. So a sterguard heavy pod list with melta for the hammerhead and then plasma/flamers for the firewarriors should come down un-molested. The other case is lack of AA. Crons could run annihalation barges which the S5 cant hurt. Then run nightscythe heavy and watch as they come in and not much you can do.

It is a strong list, but would still have a few hard counters imho

At 1000 pts an artillery line IG list will take at least 2 manticores. How does your slow 30" gun range Tau gunline feel about ~4 S10 AP4 large blasts a turn which you may have 1 shot a turn to kill (this is against a bad IG player who did not deploy behind LoS blocking terrain)? Those two manticores are 160 pts a piece(320 pts total) btw so the IG player can also bring 2 vendetta vets (600 pts total) or a gunline (~340 pts for 4 lascannons and 50 bodies) to handle objectives. The vendetta vets will have free roam of the board as you seem to not have 1 AT gun in the entire list.

Now after those comments I do like the image of a FW horde army but you are incredibly light on any form of AT and AA.

Also as has been said TFC or hellturkeys will remove your army with little to no trouble and you have almost no chance to retaliate even before you consider that they can destroy your 1 AT weapon with near impunity.

45 lootas and minimal troops in BW's at a 1000 points. Shook attack big meks for fun.

My friend brought a 500 point army with Coteaz in a chimera and 5 razorbacks with psybolt heavy bolters. I think that list would mow over the Firewarrior list fairly well, while also netting 2 extra victory points with 500 points left over for extras.

It hasn't been mentioned but how are you going to handle opposing team Tau? At 1000 points I run 2 Hammerhead and 1 Riptide and I can just see them taking a handful of FW (and possibly breaking the unit) each turn and never being at any sort of risk. Also this list sounds like it would have real troubles moving up the table to seize objectives without tons of cover keeping you safe.

Your list is very vulnerable to vehicles, they both outrange you and are immune to strength 5 pulse fire.

An Imperial Guard mech or artillery army would have no problem fitting in multiple vehciles that would outrange you and be immune to counter fire.

My standard all comers list at 1000 points has 3 griffons, 2 leman russes and 2 chimeras in it. I can't see how your army would be able to deal with that.

The griffons would be hidden away and able to seriously damage those squishy firewarriors, especially if they're clumped up to gain the benefit of the Ethereal's bubble.

After taking out your lone hammerhead (which would be quite easy given its the only vehicle in the list and i have multiple at weapons) i'd just sit there outside your range (not that it would matter, being unable to penetrate my armour) and shoot you. I'd then move up and flamer you to death.

Here's my list:

1000 Points IG All Comers.
HQ
Command Squad –meltagun (4) 90pts
Chimera –heavy flamer 55pts
TROOPS
Platoon Command Squad –flamer (4) 50pts
Chimera –heavy flamer 55pts
Infantry Squad -autocannon, flamer 65pts
Infantry Squad -autocannon, flamer 65pts
Infantry Squad -Autocannon, flamer 65pts
HEAVY SUPPORT
Griffon Battery (3) 225
Leman Russ Exterminator -lascannon 165pts
Leman Russ Extermiantor –lascannon 165pts

I honestly don't see how you can handle vehicles or armies that outrange you.

That list is a great example. You'd need 2 HH's in order to have a decent chance at taking out those exterminators before they get within 48". Once they're down, you can submunition the griffon battery (or depending on deployment and cover/visuals you might have to do that before the tanks) and at that point you have a good chance to outrange and mop up his IG.

But with just one railhead, you are very unlikely to be able to take out more than one Exterminator before the other (or both) get within Lascannon range to end your tank. At which point the Griffon Battery just gets within range and ends your FW squads with a great picket line of autocannons between you and them and 2 squads with flamers coming on Chimeras which you can bet he isn't going to just let get stuck within EMP range before he can drop off troops to template your lines.

Rems, what do you think on prioritization there? If I was running 2 railheads (one with longstrike) and 1 Riptide. Probably Riptide on the Chimeras as they rush up, and Railheads on those Leman Russ Exterminators and try and keep range while hoping for some Pens or glances to death? After that Pie-plates if any of them still stand all over the troops I would imagine and advance the FW line.

Space maximum distance apart 72 FWs create a firing line 212 inches long. The table is at max 72 inces long. That's a firing line 3 deep from table edge to table edge. The etherals sandwiched in between to provide maximum assistance will provide 100s of extra shots. Supporting fire means charging that would be costly. As they advanced up the board they will close a net with triple str5 shots. As far as arty goes, advancing as they are they will be amonst your troops soon shooting like mad. By turn 3 expect your cowering armor to be hit by dozens of emp attacks. This assumes that by turn 3 he hasn't klled all of your scoring units & has dozens of 4+ save Ld 10 troops choices giving him line breaker.

I envision Necron mech giving you serious problems; however at the 1500pt level, once you've included 3 Riptides, I have no idea how to deal with your list.

And then the lonely Land Raider with its Dirge Caster unloads a mere 10 Zerkers into the fray, and without any Overwatch, Blood God trumps the Tuna god once more :(

I feel like this list could really easily be taken out still. Here would be my 1k TAC list and I really can't see this one giving me much trouble.

1 Commander, AFB, Plasma Rifle, Drone Controller (no drones taken)
1 Riptide with Ion and Plasma Rifles, Velocity Tracker
10 FW squad
9 FW squad
Squadron of 5 Piranha 2 w/ FB 3w/ burst cannons
2 Rail HHs with Black Sun, Submunition, and Disruption Pod

Piranhas would start next to commander and drop all of their gun drones off into a single unit that the commander would join. My FWs would simply hunker down out of the way for T1-3 and let my Tanks target the enemy HH first while the Riptide pie plates. Piranhas race down the side and move to just within burst cannon range spraying that side of the line. Once the HH is down switch any remaining HHs on my side to submunitions and pie plate all over those etherals and the troops near them. Meanwhile commander and gun drones move forward and use cover to JSJ into firing on the FW with pinning weapons. I can't see it being hard to take out 10-12 FW a turn, leading to 50-60 dead by T5 along with hopefully one Etheral. FWs begin moving out T4 to grab objectives if needed.

 chrisrawr wrote:
Against Battle Wagons, I've started taking EMP's on my pathies as noted - it lets them one-off most vehicles. Rapidfire changes means I can usually get rear or side armour against most vehicles. As for T9 flyrants, grounding them repeatedly has proven fun and effective, and they aren't always T9

Once my Riptides come in, these problems go away ;P

Just take EMPs on your warriors - 2 squads of 12 with EMPs will be enough to deal with any AV12~14.

 RedAngel wrote:
Space maximum distance apart 72 FWs create a firing line 212 inches long. The table is at max 72 inces long. That's a firing line 3 deep from table edge to table edge. The etherals sandwiched in between to provide maximum assistance will provide 100s of extra shots. Supporting fire means charging that would be costly. As they advanced up the board they will close a net with triple str5 shots. As far as arty goes, advancing as they are they will be amonst your troops soon shooting like mad. By turn 3 expect your cowering armor to be hit by dozens of emp attacks. This assumes that by turn 3 he hasn't klled all of your scoring units & has dozens of 4+ save Ld 10 troops choices giving him line breaker.

Seriously? (i'll use my army as a counter to this)

So you're going to be walking towards a gun line out of cover? Whilst 3 pie plates and all the rest is firing at you. You've got at least 24 inches to cover until you're in rapid fire range. That's four turns of movement or three if you get some good run rolls. So you've spent half the game moving into range, whilst i'm shooting you undisturbed as you can't shoot back because the hammerhead, being the only threat to my armour and no1. target priority is gone.

Then when you are in range whoop de do as your str 5 guns can't penetrate front armour 12 or 14. The only remaining at threat are the pathfinders with emp grenades who guess what, were target priority no.2. Relying on grenades carried by toughness 3 4+ save guys for your anti tank is foolish. I keep dropping pie plates on you along with all the rest and now that you've conveniently moved into range also heavy flamers and normal flamers.

@GreyDragon if you were running two HH and a Riptide i might be fethed. I don't think i'd be able to take all three of those out. With all three you'd be lighter on troops however and i might be able to take out your scoring units. I'd have to see the whole list to be honest.

That's only an extra 48 points, but it's still probably not enough. When the concern is tanks filled with infantry that want to punch your guys in the face, your answer shouldn't be to move your face closer to them.

Whatever vehicle they bring that needs to be assaulted with EMP grenades will probably have ranged weaponry that will prevent the Firewarriors from getting close enough to use the EMP grenades. The two units with grenades will probably be huge targets as well since if they go down it suddenly removes most if not all threats to the tank.