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I played a Clash of Heroes mission yesterday, using Imotekh as my warlord. I killed a number of units with his Lord of the Storm lightning ability, but when it hit Eldrad at the beginning of turn 3, my opponent suddenly declared that he needed to see how the rules were worded. In the Clash of Heroes mission, it says that the opposing warlord can only be killed by an attack from your own warlord. In the Necron codex, Lord of the Storm is not listed specifically as an "attack". My opponent declared that since it was an "ability" and not an "attack", that Eldrad wasn't dead.

I think I got a bad case of RAW vs. RAI here, along with a nitpicky opponent. What does Dakka think?

It's a "fluffy" mission, so it's completely inappropriate to nitpick the exact wording of the word "attack" and attempt to declare that an offensive ability that a character brings is somehow not technically an attack. Eldrad dies.

Which book is the 'Clash of Heroes' mission detailed in?

Just going by what you've said, it seems your opponent was being a rules-lawyer over potentially losing his HQ. That said a lot depends on the specific rules for that type of mission: if it excludes special abilities somehow, then you'd be out of luck.

Make him at least roll off or get a 3rd party to make the decision.

 Neorealist wrote:
Which book is the 'Clash of Heroes' mission detailed in?

Just going by what you've said, it seems your opponent was being a rules-lawyer over potentially losing his HQ. That said a lot depends on the specific rules for that type of mission: if it excludes special abilities somehow, then you'd be out of luck.

Battle missions

The lightning brought on by Imotekh's Lord of the Storm is "not" an attack from Imotekh. Sorry to say but in this case it would not have killed Eldrad.

 Kevin949 wrote:
The lightning brought on by Imotekh's Lord of the Storm is "not" an attack from Imotekh. Sorry to say but in this case it would not have killed Eldrad.

So any offensive special ability is not considered an attack? Care to elaborate on how you came to that conclusion?

Imotekh is allowed to reroll the roll to hit with a cryptek's reroll, so the roll is linked to Imotekh personally, it occurrs in the shooting phase, has to roll to "hit" and wound, so why would you not consider it an attack? Would you consider Njal's Tempest (or whatever it is called) ability an attack?

It isn't an attack for the very same reason you had to put the word 'hit' in quotes rather than simply stating your sentence.

While a d6 is rolled, true; it is not done as a 'to-hit' dice.

Lord of the Storms' Lightning Bolts are the result of a special ability: One which causes wounds or glancing/penetrating hits against models granted, but also one which does not follow the conventional rules for an 'attack'.

At the same point fmc's and Zooming flyers can be hit by it. Based off that I'd personally allow it.

I'd allow it too, especially since it's unlikely Battle Missions will ever receive errata and appears to have been written before the distinction was really relevant.

A chrono-tek allowing Imotekh to benefit from a re-roll for 'Lord of the Storm' is close enough to a precedent regarding where the lightning is coming from, for my purposes.

But I believe the lightning works even if Imotekh is off the table or dead, its an ability you get for bringing him in your army. Would it still count as him making the attack?

It's not an attack. (in the 6th edition sense of the word). It is however his special ability.

I would also be of the opinion that it isnt a extra from him, otherwise LOS and cover would apply. It is definatly a special ability

I know this is the YMCA section of the board, but can you at the very list do a roll of then and there or get a 3rd party memeber to do it. Let the game flow like a spring. Rule debates bog it down. :-)

 ClassicCarraway wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:
The lightning brought on by Imotekh's Lord of the Storm is "not" an attack from Imotekh. Sorry to say but in this case it would not have killed Eldrad.

So any offensive special ability is not considered an attack? Care to elaborate on how you came to that conclusion?

Imotekh is allowed to reroll the roll to hit with a cryptek's reroll, so the roll is linked to Imotekh personally, it occurrs in the shooting phase, has to roll to "hit" and wound, so why would you not consider it an attack? Would you consider Njal's Tempest (or whatever it is called) ability an attack?

No, he's not allowed to reroll the D6 roll or the "number of hits" roll. Neither of those are linked to Imotekh. He does not control the lightning, further evidenced by the fact the lightning WILL hit your allies of convenience/desperate allies. The lightning would continue to strike during nightfighting if imotekh was dead. The lightning does not come from him nor does he use his BS to hit with it.

Nice broad stroke brush you paint with there.

I have to question the validity of the argument that Imotekh does not control the storm. If he doesn't control it why does it only hit the enemy. If he doesn't control it why can he reroll to keep the storm going? The ability uses you not Imotekh throughout so if the cryptek's reroll can be used to keep the storm going then why can't it be used for the rest of the ability?

It's an ability created by him it stops working if he is dead. How would the ability continue to function with him dead? The special ability is not an affect based on army but on the model itself. Nothing in the whole rule is "linked" to Imotekh except ya know being on his profile.

 Niiai wrote:
I know this is the YMCA section of the board, but can you at the very list do a roll of then and there or get a 3rd party memeber to do it. Let the game flow like a spring. Rule debates bog it down. :-)

My group is pretty good about rules debates. There was a brief discussion, and it was decided that Imotekh's lightning was not a viable means of winning this particular mission. I finished the game, even though I had zero chance of winning at that point.

What I really wanted to gauge was if my opponent had a legitimate claim, or was he just being TFG? Seems the former is the case.

Gravmyr wrote:
I have to question the validity of the argument that Imotekh does not control the storm. If he doesn't control it why does it only hit the enemy. If he doesn't control it why can he reroll to keep the storm going? The ability uses you not Imotekh throughout so if the cryptek's reroll can be used to keep the storm going then why can't it be used for the rest of the ability?

It's an ability created by him it stops working if he is dead. How would the ability continue to function with him dead? The special ability is not an affect based on army but on the model itself. Nothing in the whole rule is "linked" to Imotekh except ya know being on his profile.

To answer your first one, because the rules tell us it does. The fact it can hit your allies as well is proof that he doesn't control it. And I don't mean control it as in "is the cause of it", I mean control it in the same way a guardsman controls his grenade throwing.

Second, he CAN NOT reroll to keep the storm going, he CAN reroll to keep NIGHTFIGHTING going. The nightfighting and the lightning strikes are two completely separate things.

No, the forced nightfighting is stopped if he is dead, however the lightning strikes can and will continue if nightfighting comes back into play (except via solar pulse, as the rules states). Which is entirely possible for nightfighting to come back into play after he has died or failed his roll.

The rule being in his profile is simply allowance to use it when he is purchased, much the same as black templar Emperor's Champion vows.

So despite the fact that the ability is called lord of the storm the night fighting is not caused by a storm.... if you say so.
If the Night fighting is done then the storm is done.... except apparently it isn't.... if you say so again.

BRB pg 32: " Most special rules are given to a model by the relevant entry in its codex." It then goes on to tell you where else those rules can come from.

This tells me it is his special rule. If he is gone so is the Special Rules attached to him. It does not give it to the army or anything similar from older codexes such as the vows.

Edit: Also the Vows specifically state they are not lost even if the champion is lost does Lord of the Storm?


Beyond that if nothing is his in the Special Rule then how can the chronometron allow rerolls on the night fighting if it is not his?

Gravmyr wrote:


This tells me it is his special rule. If he is gone so is the Special Rules attached to him. It does not give it to the army or anything similar from older codexes such as the vows.

Beyond that if nothing is his in the Special Rule then how can the chronometron allow rerolls on the night fighting if it is not his?

It's also a special rule to make some elite choices count as troops, so if you agree elites remain troops after the death of the HQ, then you should also agree the storm keeps going.

Matt Ward

The storm is a continuing effect of Lord of the Storm. The choice is a one time effect at the time of army building. Once the choice has been made the unit's type is changed. How are they even comparable? Are you making choices as to unit type during the game? Do you choose what unit type during the game or is that decided when you make the list up?

Gravmyr wrote:
So despite the fact that the ability is called lord of the storm the night fighting is not caused by a storm.... if you say so.
If the Night fighting is done then the storm is done.... except apparently it isn't.... if you say so again.

BRB pg 32: " Most special rules are given to a model by the relevant entry in its codex." It then goes on to tell you where else those rules can come from.

This tells me it is his special rule. If he is gone so is the Special Rules attached to him. It does not give it to the army or anything similar from older codexes such as the vows.

Edit: Also the Vows specifically state they are not lost even if the champion is lost does Lord of the Storm?


Beyond that if nothing is his in the Special Rule then how can the chronometron allow rerolls on the night fighting if it is not his?

Dude, what are you going on about? You do actually understand what I'm saying? No, the night fighting is not caused by the storm, the lightning strikes are an added benefit "While night fighting rules are in play". Imotekh simply forces night fighting to be in play at the start of the game but night fight could come back and that would bring the lightning again.

Yes, that's right, if imotekh fails his night fight roll then night fighting stops. You show me where it says that lightning can no longer happen. You can't, because the rule says "while the night fight rules are in play..." The only caveat to the rule is night fighting brought on by solar pulses.

The vows may state that but Imotekh's rule says "if your army includes". The BT codex says "The emperors champion must choose one of the vows". The vows themselves are what are conferred to the army, the EC only unlocks the ability to use them. Imotekh's rule says "If your army includes" which means if you purchased him then you have access to this rule, in the same vein as the Vows.

The chronometron is allowed to reroll the NIGHT FIGHT roll because the FAQ said so, prior to the FAQ you could not. But this does not give allowance to reroll either the D6 for lightning chance OR the D6 for the number of hits.

@kevin pg 55 codex, if you fail the roll night fighting ceases and are not used for the rest of the battle. Gravmyr is right on that part, nightfighting won't come back.

@gravmyr
If your army includes imotekh, you get LOTS.
if your army includes a Warboss, you get a nob mob as a troop.
They really are the same.

@Kevin949

codex pg 55 " If the result is greater then the turn number, the storm continues and the Night Fighting rules remain in play."
As you can see the storm is what is causing the Night Fighting rules to be used in the first place.


BRB pg 124 "If the Night Fighting rules did not take effect during game turn 1, roll a D6 at the start of Game Turn 5, On a roll of 4+, the Night Fighting rules are used for the rest of the game."
How would the Night Fighting rules come back into play as they were in effect in the 1st game turn.

Both the night fighting and lightning are part of the same rule if you can use it for part of it you can use it for the whole rule. You are assuming they are not giving it for the whole rule based on what? Was that covered in the FAQ? Could they have been clarifying that any ability generated by a member of the unit that uses a d6 roll could be rerolled? Could they have been clarifying that all Special Rules possessed by a model generate abilities that are inherently abilities of the model no matter the phrasing?

@sirlynchmob If you say so, but if that is the case why do the vows specifically state you keep the vow even if you loose the EC?