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After reading today about how " Defense Distributed " company printed a gun and published CAD files for 16 parts (which you need to build one), I'm wondering when 3d printers become price-available to us, will this harm GW sales?
I see all kinds of home brew figures in the future, which are very easy to make ...I know 3D printing is still in its infancy, but the future is near :-) Just imagine, people can have pirate orks who are pirates :-)

If you think this thread is silly ignore me I'm an engineer....

As somebody previously pointed out, the advent of things which let regular people make and distribute their own content didn't hurt the "old" industries like music and television too badly. They're still making plenty of money, so it might not cut GW too deeply.

Still, I imagine that it would have some effect on GW sales, though not sure how much of an effect.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As somebody previously pointed out in regards to this issue, the advent of things which let regular people make and distribute their own content didn't hurt the "old" industries like music and television too badly. They're still making plenty of money, so it might not cut GW too deeply.

Still, I imagine that it would have some effect on GW sales, though not sure how much of an effect.

 Troike wrote:
As somebody previously pointed out, the advent of things which let regular people make and distribute their own content didn't hurt the "old" industries like music and television too badly. They're still making plenty of money, so it might not cut GW too deeply.

Still, I imagine that it would have some effect on GW sales, though not sure how much of an effect.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As somebody previously pointed out in regards to this issue, the advent of things which let regular people make and distribute their own content didn't hurt the "old" industries like music and television too badly. They're still making plenty of money, so it might not cut GW too deeply.

Still, I imagine that it would have some effect on GW sales, though not sure how much of an effect.

But think of the possibilities (from consumer POV), you can make everything that is in 40k and even improve it...Now this is what draws me mostly...

I think the biggest impact will be on making new parts for models. It should have a huge positive impact for customizing your figures. I don't foresee people making entire models as the tech doesn't do fine details great as of yet.

 Melchiour wrote:
I think the biggest impact will be on making new parts for models. It should have a huge positive impact for customizing your figures. I don't foresee people making entire models as the tech doesn't do fine details great as of yet.

Yeah but they're not even going to be in consumer price ranges for another 10-15 years probably. Think how far conventional printers have come in that time.

I read an article the other day that there will be a 3d printer available this year for 299.99 I would say they could be in a lot of homes in 1-4 years easy.

I'm not so sure, I think 4-5 years is a more likely timeline (I suggest reading "Makers: The new industrial revolution" by Chris Anderson). Especially if you consider that we, as a group, are crazy enough to spend $10 for a single option we need for a miniature ;->

Once the highest quality printers are under ~$1000 and the resolution improves just a bit more, it will be a viable way to mass produce custom bitz. Of course, having the printer doesn't equate with having the design and CAD skills to do the work, but it certainly lowers the bar to entry. I would say that one day in the not too far future a skilled CAD artist will be able to design a custom line of miniatures and produce them in limited volume in his/her garage. As a sci-fi gamer, that sounds like Nirvana to me

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

 Melchiour wrote:
I think the biggest impact will be on making new parts for models. It should have a huge positive impact for customizing your figures. I don't foresee people making entire models as the tech doesn't do fine details great as of yet.

Yeah but they're not even going to be in consumer price ranges for another 10-15 years probably. Think how far conventional printers have come in that time.

yeah 1-4 years is like market prediction...Can't wait...Got to refresh my CAD knowlege.....

The topic frequently comes up at Dakka. While I would appreciate the possibility to cheaply copy GW stuff (and certainly use it), the problem is that at the same time, you'll hurt all the smaller companies that actually care for their players and those can't just deal with that development as easily as GW can.

Its not going to happen.

Currently, 3-D printers are barely capable of producing the quality of miniatures GW made when they first started up. You are basically setting your sculpting back 30+ years by using a 3-D printer.

They also can't handle the volume that would be required. Its much faster to use standard molds.


And even when 3-D printing can match the quality, people will still pay for normal casting. That said, I think it will be a long time before 3-D printing is capable of making even a plastic tac marine of identical quality to the current GW kit.

Have you seen what a 3d printer can make? It's pretty damn ugly. It's not going to happen soon by any means.

I remember having the same discussion with my printer 20 years ago about desktop publishing. It is just a matter of time; 3D printing will slowly replace other manufacturing methods for low volume production.

As it stands today, I can submit a CAD file to a service bureau and have an item produced for a very reasonable fee on the highest quality 3D printer. 5 years from now, I think this will be a viable option for the production of custom bits, if it isn't already. 10 years from now, I wouldn't want to be in the hobby casting/molding supply business!

 Grey Templar wrote:
Its not going to happen.

Many people have said things like this throughout history. Most to eat their own words.

Making special weapons is more of a draw IMO, having to buy a whole box for one metla gun is lame. This might hurt bitz sellers more than the parent company.

 Kain wrote:
Have you seen what a 3d printer can make? It's pretty damn ugly. It's not going to happen soon by any means.

It depends on the printer. I believe Mantic had prototypes for their Deadzone terrain produced in a 3d printer, and then made molds and resin casts from those masters in order to get some stuff together for demo photos. That stuff looks just fine.

Now, my friend that bought/built a Rep-Rap? Yeah. That's good enough to build a basic shape to sculpt detail on top of, but unless he's really tweaked it since I last asked it's not making anything pretty on its own.

I looked into it not too long ago. Pretty basic 3D printers can be had for ~$600, which isn't that bad when comparing the cost of a new army (or 3 if you get a group to buy it).

But as others said it will take a few years (hard to tell, some technologies are move FAST some not so fast and I don't know much about 3D printers) for the technology to get there.

Price needs to go down a bit to the $400 range.
Quality needs to go up substantially.

Once those two things happen 3D printers will have an impact.

I will be ecstatic when they become more affordable. I could finally have all the necessary bits to kit out my models with any option I want without resorting to forgeworld to fill gaps GW leaves out of their kits. Yes I know GW owns forgeworld but I don't feel I should have to pay out the bum for options that should be in the original kit.

I think the other thing that needs to be considered is the actual cost of the resin/plastic material for making the models. Casting materials are never cheap and you don't get that much for your money(unless you buy it in industrial size amounts). I think maybe the odd basic miniature will be a possibility, but consider the idea of making your own terrain pieces like for example a building. While it is possible to do this, the actual cost for the material may make it highly expensive and so make it pointless to do so, I think it will always be cheaper to buy from a (reasonable!) manufacturer.

It won't impact GW, they're too big, with too much IP and diverse properties.

It will probably destroy all the littler companies though, so I won't have to read about Privateer Press anymore.

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:
I will be ecstatic when they become more affordable. I could finally have all the necessary bits to kit out my models with any option I want without resorting to forgeworld to fill gaps GW leaves out of their kits. Yes I know GW owns forgeworld but I don't feel I should have to pay out the bum for options that should be in the original kit.

YES - this is why I giggle right now...Freeeeeeeeedoooomm.....

3D Printing is

1) Slow.
2) Costly.
3) Not suited for small, detailed sculpts such as gaming miniatures.

You'd be better off house-casting your own bitz imho.

The best you could probably do is copy some of the oldest GW sculpts. And you'd still be looking at 3-5 pieces per model.

 Agent_Tremolo wrote:
3D Printing is

1) Slow.
2) Costly.
3) Not suited for small, detailed sculpts such as gaming miniatures.

You'd be better off house-casting your own bitz imho.

First computers were like that too - and now you have them in you pocket :-)

Also guys, google home made action figures (3d printed)...

I actually do a bit of 3d printing.

For the vehicles you can print a vehicle with ~80% of the GW detail. So on par with a finecast kit. You can print the weapons with ~70% of the details but you will need the little icons, etc. to decorate them. The basic melatguns and plasma guns from GW can be printed ~80-90% quality of GW with minimal cleaning as they are not very detailed.

For the miniatures I would not recommend it unless you have a dual headed printer. The model pieces don't really have the size the handle easily (easy to break when removing from the plate and hard to clean). If you have a dual headed printer you can reduce these concerns by building the model as a single piece using ABS to dissolve away and PLA as the material. I do not have access to such a printer though but if anyone wants to give me 300 dollars I will upgrade the one I have access to.

Overall I would give it 5 years max until it is possible.

Now the question is will it actually affect GW? The answer is maybe. The GW finecast kits will probably die horrible deaths when people can spend ~500 dollars and make as many of an equivalent as they want, but 3d printed objects are about as fun to work with and need as much TLC as GW finecast (not FW but GW where the quality sucks).There will probably be people willing to do this but the majority will buy their minis from other places with better quality and avoid the hours learning 3d printing (which is a huge learning process) and the hassle involved.

 ansacs wrote:
I actually do a bit of 3d printing.

For the vehicles you can print a vehicle with ~80% of the GW detail. So on par with a finecast kit. You can print the weapons with ~70% of the details but you will need the little icons, etc. to decorate them. The basic melatguns and plasma guns from GW can be printed ~80-90% quality of GW with minimal cleaning as they are not very detailed.

For the miniatures I would not recommend it unless you have a dual headed printer. The model pieces don't really have the size the handle easily (easy to break when removing from the plate and hard to clean). If you have a dual headed printer you can reduce these concerns by building the model as a single piece using ABS to dissolve away and PLA as the material. I do not have access to such a printer though but if anyone wants to give me 300 dollars I will upgrade the one I have access to.

Overall I would give it 5 years max until it is possible.

Now the question is will it actually affect GW? The answer is maybe. The GW finecast kits will probably die horrible deaths when people can spend ~500 dollars and make as many of an equivalent as they want, but 3d printed objects are about as fun to work with and need as much TLC as GW finecast (not FW but GW where the quality sucks).There will probably be people willing to do this but the majority will buy their minis from other places with better quality and avoid the hours learning 3d printing (which is a huge learning process) and the hassle involved.

Cool - can you do a prototype of something and show it ? Leman Russ tank or maybe a weapon bits ? Just for fun....Also exalted

Sure, I will need a while though as the hot end got stripped when it was removed improperly. I just got the parts monday but I am off work Fri and Sat (One of the many little lessons).

I have some eldar power generators if you want to see them but they were printed in clear PLA (they are meant to look like cloaked plasma generators from DOW) so the details may be difficult to pick out...actually I should see if I can find the zombie I printed from L4D2 in a 28mm scale.

3D printers are quite capable of higher resolution than needed for miniatures, but the price of those printers is astronomical. If you can use stem cells as ink, the technology is almost beyond belief.

People can cast their own miniatures right now without the use of a 3d scanner, printer or knowledge of CAD and the recasters are not really putting anyone out of business. So the 3d printing will have to be a lot cheaper and much easier than recasting before it has any impact at all.

Its not just the printer but also the consumables that would need to be cheap and then who is going to make all the CAD files?

Currently, 3D printers are primarily used for prototyping.
They get the main bod of an item on the desk, and it is then tweaked. Use it to make a mold, yeah, but printing production-line style, not really.

I think some of you are being misled on the subject of 3D printing by all the homebrew versions we've seen in recent years. Professional grade 3D printers do not make ugly models. There are several companies now that offer models that can achieve the same level of detail that any GW molded part has.

These models are, of course, extremely expensive. But thats the whole point of the discussion, Marko wants to know what will happen when machines of that high level become cheaper and more readily available to the general public.

@OP: If the price comes down (and I think it will eventually), the biggest obstacle for this kind of thing will be finding someone with a talent for 3D modelling. Can't run the printer without a model, and with the quality you can expect out of most people using a CAD software for the first time you'd be better off using Legos.

What really excites me is the idea of utilizing 3D printers along with 3D scanners. I am a full time CNC Machinist, and we have equipment that will scan a part in 3D and build a CAD model for you, which can then be modified in any CAD software. Imagine scanning GW models and tweaking them to your liking and then printing them.

 Orblivion wrote:

Imagine scanning GW models and tweaking them to your liking and then printing them.

I am sure it will come to this eventually. However, it is also quite clearly theft of intellectual property. No doubt there will be money to be made by lawyers over this issue.

I expect there will be a lot more of just plain old copying and quite a bit less of tweaking simply due to the CAD skills needed.

 Orblivion wrote:
I think some of you are being misled on the subject of 3D printing by all the homebrew versions we've seen in recent years. Professional grade 3D printers do not make ugly models. There are several companies now that offer models that can achieve the same level of detail that any GW molded part has.

These models are, of course, extremely expensive. But thats the whole point of the discussion, Marko wants to know what will happen when machines of that high level become cheaper and more readily available to the general public.

@OP: If the price comes down (and I think it will eventually), the biggest obstacle for this kind of thing will be finding someone with a talent for 3D modelling. Can't run the printer without a model, and with the quality you can expect out of most people using a CAD software for the first time you'd be better off using Legos.

What really excites me is the idea of utilizing 3D printers along with 3D scanners. I am a full time CNC Machinist, and we have equipment that will scan a part in 3D and build a CAD model for you, which can then be modified in any CAD software. Imagine scanning GW models and tweaking them to your liking and then printing them.

Yeah, and sure there will be vanilla CAD templates which will spread in 40k community like a cancer...Think if some one makes a full menu (like a furniture :-) of helmets, armors, weapons etc.
And you say 3d scanners??? Oooo sweet Leman of Russ, think of the possibilities....:-) I will cast out my face and put it on warboss figure...

People are already making action figures on 3d printers which look pretty cool, so future is here...