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I was comparing the stats between the two units, and other than the obvious stat bonuses and points increase that a Wraithlord has over a Talos, I couldn't figure out why it gets character status and the Talos doesn't? This is a big difference, in my opinion. The most obvious difference being that a Talos bites it hard if it gets stuck in an assault with a unit that has a powerfist. Not only can the Wraithlord challenge a powerfist sergeant, but can also place Precision Hits on any non-character model that may have a powerfist upgrade. The other small difference is that a Wraithlord can come in and take over a challenge in another assault.

Was this done intentionally for fluff reasons between the two units, or do you think it's actually balanced out in the points cost?

I dont think talos have the ability to rationally challenge anything. Nor precision target anything in melee. WL do.

So you think it is a fluff based reason? I ask this because both units were priced according to fifth edition, and someone made the conscious decision to give character status to Wraithlords (who shut down if a psyker isn't nearby) and not to a Talos (crazed pain engine) once sixth edition was released.

Maybe. Carnifexes aren't characters either if that backs up "crazed beast".

I think that has to be it. Fluff.

A wraithlord is the spirit of a great warrior bound into a living machine. It has free will. The Talos is a tortured slave imprisoned in the engine and forced to obey. It doesn't have free will.

 Wilytank wrote:
Maybe. Carnifexes aren't characters either if that backs up "crazed beast".

Carnifexes can be taken in multiples, and thus can have an IC join them. Tervigons are also characters, for what it's worth. None of this makes much sense to me.

 Oaka wrote:

 Wilytank wrote:
Maybe. Carnifexes aren't characters either if that backs up "crazed beast".

Carnifexes can be taken in multiples, and thus can have an IC join them. Tervigons are also characters, for what it's worth. None of this makes much sense to me.

Just saying that Tyranids are not mindless bugs, especially synapse creatures are way more intelligent than most IG commanders ( Fluffwise ) and in synapse range most tyranids are directly controlled by the hive commander and thus even the most mindless beast be able to use tactics.

This seems to be the missing thing from most folks is that people think they are just a "swarm" but hive tyrants and some "solo" creatures are highly intelligent ( like the Deathleaper ) and the genestealer cults are a tyranid creation aswell, and Tyranids often infiltrate a planet before they ram their crap into it.


Ehem!... after that rant, i guess the character part in "WraithLORD" is the lord party, and the talos is just another talos...

 Oaka wrote:

 Wilytank wrote:
Maybe. Carnifexes aren't characters either if that backs up "crazed beast".

Carnifexes can be taken in multiples, and thus can have an IC join them. Tervigons are also characters, for what it's worth. None of this makes much sense to me.

You have an organic avatar of the hive mind (Tervigon) versus a monsterous slave made of sculpted flesh. Seems like a big difference to me.

Wraithlord is essentially Eldar variant of Dreadnought: instead of attaching the body into Wraith construct, they attach just the spirit. In the past, they were called Dreadnought's.

Ok, so it makes sense by the fluff, but does it make sense in the game?

As a Talos player, I would easily spend 10 points for the upgrade to character. I feel like it should be automatic, though.

I think someone at GW dropped the ball and assigned character status to all the Monstrous Creatures in the game at random, without any playtesting at all, just on how they felt at the time.

 Wilytank wrote:

 Oaka wrote:

 Wilytank wrote:
Maybe. Carnifexes aren't characters either if that backs up "crazed beast".

Carnifexes can be taken in multiples, and thus can have an IC join them. Tervigons are also characters, for what it's worth. None of this makes much sense to me.

You have an organic avatar of the hive mind (Tervigon) versus a monsterous slave made of sculpted flesh. Seems like a big difference to me.

its because they are an HQ unit. If they were not, you could potentially have an army with no Warlord, thus breaking the rules on army building and denying the Slay the Warlord to the opponent, who will have a Warlord if he has any other HQ unit. All other codex HQs either have Independent, Unique or Upgrade character status already. The Hive Tyrant andTervigons were the only ones not to.

Dracoknight wrote:

 Oaka wrote:

 Wilytank wrote:
Maybe. Carnifexes aren't characters either if that backs up "crazed beast".

Carnifexes can be taken in multiples, and thus can have an IC join them. Tervigons are also characters, for what it's worth. None of this makes much sense to me.

Just saying that Tyranids are not mindless bugs, especially synapse creatures are way more intelligent than most IG commanders ( Fluffwise ) and in synapse range most tyranids are directly controlled by the hive commander and thus even the most mindless beast be able to use tactics.

This seems to be the missing thing from most folks is that people think they are just a "swarm" but hive tyrants and some "solo" creatures are highly intelligent ( like the Deathleaper ) and the genestealer cults are a tyranid creation aswell, and Tyranids often infiltrate a planet before they ram their crap into it.


Ehem!... after that rant, i guess the character part in "WraithLORD" is the lord party, and the talos is just another talos...

Actually most Tyranids are just mindless biological engines of death. Pretty much the only ones that do possesse individual thought are the ones you mentioned. Hive mind is its own will it possesses each and very Tyranid, lesser Tyranid forms like Carnifexes and Hormagaunts possess no tactical ability outside of animal cunning. The Hive Mind has tactics and uses then when it takes over the minds of its bioforms, like a limb...

But back on topic this is really all a fluff thing and has nothing to do with game balance IMO. Tervigons are intelligent brood mothers that can lead swarms and so are characters. Carnifexes is just a massive bioweapon and so not a character. Wraithlords are the mighty souls of long dead champions locked into a war machine and so are characters. Talos are slaves programmed to kill and maim and so are not characters.

This is the edition of fluff over balance. The fact that you wish Talos was a character sounds more like a personal biased because you play the unit rather than making any sense in fluff.

Why does the Vindicare assassin ignore Look Out Sir! Rolls and Mindwar doesn't?

Because GW.

I'll agree that the fluff is on the Wraithlord's side though.

why are ork Nobs not characters in groups, but a single one leading boyz is?

why do hot dogs come in packs of 8, but hot dog buns come in packs of 12?


mysteries that have puzzled mankind since the dawn of apes and stuff