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Who's is the better of us perfidious Eldar


side note a full squad.

I voted shining spears but I'd never recommend taking a full squad unless you had an army with multiple squads so that they can work with each other. I use my 3 with upgrades as a sort of spear that I chuck, very carefully and precisely, at my enemy.

If you want generally... Then WS all the way.

I love my warp spiders.

Great for taking out anything you opponent leaves alone in his backfield. I played a Daemons player the other day, who left bloodletters sitting on an objective. DS in, mince half the squad, jump out of range. Next turn I move in, shoot some more, assault and clear the objective. 4 man + exarch. Dual spinners and powerblades (because of the model). Plus, the fluff is great, and the way they are played is fun. For an expensive squad, get an autarch (jump pack, mandiblasters, fusion gun +power sword) and they're a multi-tool for backfield domination.

Hawks are a close second. Most of the time they are useless, but their grenade pack is fun with skyleap, and I absolutely LOVE the models. Here's to hoping GW give them some way to assault flyers in the new edition, or something else as awesome.

As an Eldar player, in my not-so-humble opinion Warp Spiders are the only fast slot worth a crap are Spiders. Take a minimal squad and pop open rear armor, hope the 3+armor absorbs return fire (or no hellturkeys)

Swooping Hawks. I don't play Eldar, but I've always wanted to see one of their Exarchs Skyleap the Relic right off the board.

I don't play Eldar, but I've always wanted to see one of their Exarchs Skyleap the Relic right off the board

I never thought of that. The rules for The Relic need more work don't they....

Honestly till the new codex drops I think as others have said Spiders are the only competitive choice, though they are a great unit in their own right; good sv, deepstriking, JSJ, torrents of s6 shooting and great wargear and options for the Exarch. If they make the other aspects fit their roll as well as Dragons and Spiders, I'll be a happy bunny.

I don't know, I love the Hornet rules in the IA book, if those count. they look like they wreck face pretty well for a decent points cost.

Well, i'd consider Vyper squadrons, since squadron rules have improved and Yypers can have a decent loadout.
Warpspiders are not bad but can be killed too easily, hello Helldrake, Basilisk and whatnot.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, i'd consider Vyper squadrons, since squadron rules have improved and Yypers can have a decent loadout.
Warpspiders are not bad but can be killed too easily, hello Helldrake, Basilisk and whatnot.

if all you have as a threat is warp spiders then your playing Eldar wrong or your opponent does'nt know what target priority is.

As for the topic Warp Spiders are the best. if they nerf them in any way in the new codex, tables shall be flipped.

GTKA666 wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, i'd consider Vyper squadrons, since squadron rules have improved and Yypers can have a decent loadout.
Warpspiders are not bad but can be killed too easily, hello Helldrake, Basilisk and whatnot.

if all you have as a threat is warp spiders then your playing Eldar wrong or your opponent does'nt know what target priority is.

As for the topic Warp Spiders are the best. if they nerf them in any way in the new codex, tables shall be flipped.

Well, I did crazy things with Warpspiders. Once against Nids, I waited until the faster smaller Broods were close to my front ranks. Then the Spiders moved into the swarm, shot the Warriors further back and then moving inside a building behind the swarm. My opponent got nuts.
Unfortunately, Warpspiders don't work very well in my local meta.

I have had great results from warp spiders in 5th and 6th often deep.striking to open up enemy tanks with their rear armour. In my last game the survivors of a unit shot up.a fire warrior unit and got me linebreaker to.give me a draw.

Not really used the other FA choices so can't comment on them.

Eldar is all about synergy. The filling of the FA will heavily depend on the rest of the army.

Warp Spiders are the only one I'd really consider (unless we're counting Hornets)

Silly really that for an army that is famed for speed their fast attack choices are fairly weak compared to their other choices.

Is this actually a debate? Warp Spiders are the only useful FA choice by a LARGE margin.

SS are just bad, Incredibly expensive, mediocre durability, mediocre CC ability, bad shooting.

Hawks are incredibly tough to use due to their high cost, horrid shooting, and are only useful against vehicles in melee. At that point, just take a few warlocks on jetbikes for cheaper and more durable.

Vypers... yeah.... we dont talk about them, In contention for the worst vehicle in the game with sentinels. Actually, i would rate them the worst vehicle in the game, bar none. ]

Warp Spiders are great at dealing with small infantry units, AV10, and are moderately durable. Along with one of the most cost effective damage output exarchs, you have a unit that can either deepstrike in and pop vehicles, or skirt the board and poke off smaller squads.

Warp Spiders by far.

Shining spears too costly and too small for their role.

Swooping Hawks decent but to me too specialized.

Vypers are good in the olden days when I filled my heavy slots with falcons but why take higher priced vypers instead of war walkers to do the same job... (Albeit I am tempted to play 3 x 3 Vyper squadrons and 3 x 3 walker squadrons and just pop 135 S6 shots every turn...

Well, I would not be so confident when it comes to Warp Spiders. Once the enemy sets them high on the target priority list, they are dead.

A shuriken cannon and scatter laser vyper is 70pts. That's 7 shots at 24in or 4 at 36 on a open topped AV10 with NO transport capacity. In contrast: the same 70 points for a DE Venom gets you 12 poisoned shots at 36in, reduced enemy attack range, deep strike, reroll morale, 5+inv oh me oh my what else...OH and 5 man transport that can fire their S8 blasters at a different target. I just proxy my Vyper as ann extra Venom EVERY time. Yea Vypers were barely acceptable in 5th but in 6th they're trash. .and I've always hated Hawks, 22pts for S3 regular shots? GTFO. Shining Spears? To many points, too small a squad size.

Spiders are the only current Eldar FA without such obvious flaws.

I'd rank spiders>vipers>hawks>shining spears

Spiders are fast and hit pretty damn hard, theyre probably the most "durable" fast attack, since they have a 3+ save and can warp behind LoS blocking terrain or into cover after firing

Vipers are like war walkers but not as good, not as good range of weapons and more expensive, but get jink so I suppose thats a plus, and 12" move makes them quite manoeuvrable

Hawks are just...well... they look quite nice and the grenade barrage is pretty cool, but theyre really not very good, die to a stiff breeze, expensive as hell, weak hitting power

Shining spears are pretty good, but cost wayyy too much, over 100 points for something that dies as easily as 3 space marines is a massive downer

 wuestenfux wrote:
Eldar is all about synergy. The filling of the FA will heavily depend on the rest of the army.

^ This ^ 1+.

The strength of a given unit in the Eldar warhost depends heavily on the composition of the warhost itself.

I use SS and find them satisfactory for my needs. WS would not be able to replace them and achieve nearly the same level of success despite being the "better" unit.

Trust wuestenfux on this. wuestenfux is definitely one of the more experienced on DakkaDakka when it comes to Eldar.

 warpspider89 wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Eldar is all about synergy. The filling of the FA will heavily depend on the rest of the army.

^ This ^ 1+.

The strength of a given unit in the Eldar warhost depends heavily on the composition of the warhost itself.

I use SS and find them satisfactory for my needs. WS would not be able to replace them and achieve nearly the same level of success despite being the "better" unit.

Trust wuestenfux on this. wuestenfux is definitely one of the more experienced on DakkaDakka when it comes to Eldar.

Thanks warpspider. In fact, Eldar is my beloved army playing it at the competitive level for years.

While i do agree that each unit has a role to fill, i just feel that point per damage the spiders can edge it.

Vypers - Just expensive to say the least, and very fragile.

Hawks - Not so bad, haywire is allways good, but limited useage.

Spears - Ive allways loved the model, which is why i started to use them.
They really arent all that bad, just a bit heavy on points.
Nice for opening up armour from behind.

Spiders - Love them.
Fast, able to spam S6 shots like no tomorrow and you can even throw the spinnerette(sp?) in to increase the chance of killing armour.

Until the new Eldar codex hits, I really don't bother with Eldar FA. I use DE as an ally and use a 20 strong Beastpack as my FA choice. 255 points for the unit is a steal.

 Sarigar wrote:
Until the new Eldar codex hits, I really don't bother with Eldar FA. I use DE as an ally and use a 20 strong Beastpack as my FA choice. 255 points for the unit is a steal.

True, if you have the right synergizer for it like the Baron.

I have to say though that while I really love what I have been able to do with Warp Spiders, I also love what I have recently tried with Vypers.

I wouldn't do this vs Tau but here is how I run my Vypers.

I put an Eldar Farseer on a jetbike, give him 4 powers, then trade them for the Telepathy table. I'm trying to get Invisibility here.

If I get invisibility I use my Farseer to cast Invisibility on my Squadron of Vypers so they get a 2+ cover save. I have my Farseer follow them around trying to get line of sight blocking cover as much as possible.

It doesn't always work but when it does it makes Vypers worth much more than they appear at first.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Eldar is all about synergy. The filling of the FA will heavily depend on the rest of the army.

As much as I advocate for Spiders, fux's answer really is the most logical annd sensible.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Sarigar wrote:
Until the new Eldar codex hits, I really don't bother with Eldar FA. I use DE as an ally and use a 20 strong Beastpack as my FA choice. 255 points for the unit is a steal.

True, if you have the right synergizer for it like the Baron.

The Baron is the HQ of choice. And, in typical Eldar fashion, this also needs to be synergized with the rest of the army.