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My 1k pts army list (currently) is:

Rakarth
2 Haemys (Hexrifles, Liquifier Guns)
2 squads of 10 Wracks (Liquifier Guns)
Raider (Darklance, Flickerfield)
Ravager (Darklances)
3 Grotesques (With Rakarth)

I'm thinking of swapping Rakarth out for an Archon in my unit of Grotesques, and I was just wondering what you all think I should give him? (Considering I mostly go up against Tyranids)

Thanks!

Cheapest and effective: Agoniser + shadowfield, static 4+ to wound regardless of their toughness, and I believe their armour saves don't get higher than 3 so AP3 is plenty enough. Bit of a waste when you get FC though. Throw in combat drugs and you have 2/3 a chance to get something useful. Alternately a venom blade could do, with its mass of wounds.

Not sure about huskblade as the big things in nids have high T, so unless you got some soul trapping down, rolling that 6 to wound will be... well, disappointments! Though the ability to ID all those wounds away could be fun.

PGL, I'm not sure, most nids beat the grotesques's initiative anyway, and it's unlikely that they'd be deterred by defensive grenades...

Oh and off topic, one raider, and the rest are foot troops??

Baronyu wrote:
Cheapest and effective: Agoniser + shadowfield, static 4+ to wound regardless of their toughness, and I believe their armour saves don't get higher than 3 so AP3 is plenty enough. Bit of a waste when you get FC though. Throw in combat drugs and you have 2/3 a chance to get something useful. Alternately a venom blade could do, with its mass of wounds.

Not sure about huskblade as the big things in nids have high T, so unless you got some soul trapping down, rolling that 6 to wound will be... well, disappointments! Though the ability to ID all those wounds away could be fun.

PGL, I'm not sure, most nids beat the grotesques's initiative anyway, and it's unlikely that they'd be deterred by defensive grenades...

Oh and off topic, one raider, and the rest are foot troops??

I'm taking Rakarth and the Grotesques out for a Ravager and another Raider, I played a game the other day and my non-Raider mounted guys just got chewed up before they got anywhere, and, I'll be sure to take your advice, I do like the Huskblade though, it might be a bit expensive (35pts!!) but that instant death with no characteristic tests is really, really nice

BrotherOfBone wrote:


I'm thinking of swapping Rakarth out for an Archon in my unit of Grotesques, and I was just wondering what you all think I should give him? (Considering I mostly go up against Tyranids)

Thanks!

Standard archon is huskblade, shadowfield, combat drugs.

You might want to change to a venomblade or agonizer to help you wound against T5,6, but Ap2 ID is usually better than 2+ to wound even if you are wounding on 6s.
You might want to consider a soul trap for killing all those MCs against Nids.
If the archon is going with grotesques or incubi you want to include a PGL so you get grenades. Also removing the +1 attack from guants can be very good as can stealth within 8"

blastpistols suck
blasters are ok, they almost always hit and can power up your soul trap. The problem being that they remove one of your attacks.

I would add a fourth grotesque, make him an abbervation and give him a venom blade. 5 attacks that reroll to wound on 2+ are awesome.

Grotesques are good, but I'm afraid of my Haemy dying, and then the Grotesques just killing themselves when they fail their test thing.. It just sucks, especially considering they're 35pts/model, you could get a Wraith for that much, and they're so much better.. :(

Why aren't you putting your archon with the grotesques?

And aye, I still remember the times when I roll a 6 on my huskblade against my friends' multiwound high T characters, they just couldn't believe it! Huskblade archon is fun when the IDing happens...

@Exergy I can't believe I've never realised I could use blaster to feed soul trap... But then, my archon is already sitting at 170pts...

Baronyu wrote:
Why aren't you putting your archon with the grotesques?

And aye, I still remember the times when I roll a 6 on my huskblade against my friends' multiwound high T characters, they just couldn't believe it! Huskblade archon is fun when the IDing happens...

combat drugs you are just hoping for reroll to wound every time.

Baronyu wrote:
Why aren't you putting your archon with the grotesques?

And aye, I still remember the times when I roll a 6 on my huskblade against my friends' multiwound high T characters, they just couldn't believe it! Huskblade archon is fun when the IDing happens...

@Exergy I can't believe I've never realised I could use blaster to feed soul trap... But then, my archon is already sitting at 170pts...

The last time I put an IC in with my Grotesques they got charged by a Maulerfiend. Took one HP off of it before they got instant deathed.. Not very nice, I just don't really like Grotesques either, I've decided to take them+Rakarth completely out, one of the Haemys too, change some stuff around and put in another Ravager and Raider..

BrotherOfBone wrote:

Baronyu wrote:
Why aren't you putting your archon with the grotesques?

And aye, I still remember the times when I roll a 6 on my huskblade against my friends' multiwound high T characters, they just couldn't believe it! Huskblade archon is fun when the IDing happens...

@Exergy I can't believe I've never realised I could use blaster to feed soul trap... But then, my archon is already sitting at 170pts...

The last time I put an IC in with my Grotesques they got charged by a Maulerfiend. Took one HP off of it before they got instant deathed.. Not very nice, I just don't really like Grotesques either, I've decided to take them+Rakarth completely out, one of the Haemys too, change some stuff around and put in another Ravager and Raider..

you shouldnt let a maulerfined near your grots. 5 Haywire wyches will kill a MF in a turn before it can strike.

Grots are great, you just have to avoid Str10.

Or GK, or ID weapons.

Hmm.. Guess I'll try dropping drugs for a blaster and see how it goes.

EDIT: Oh, I wasn't saying that grotesques are bad, I love them, but just as with everything, don't expect them to just magically work against everything.

 Exergy wrote:

BrotherOfBone wrote:

Baronyu wrote:
Why aren't you putting your archon with the grotesques?

And aye, I still remember the times when I roll a 6 on my huskblade against my friends' multiwound high T characters, they just couldn't believe it! Huskblade archon is fun when the IDing happens...

@Exergy I can't believe I've never realised I could use blaster to feed soul trap... But then, my archon is already sitting at 170pts...

The last time I put an IC in with my Grotesques they got charged by a Maulerfiend. Took one HP off of it before they got instant deathed.. Not very nice, I just don't really like Grotesques either, I've decided to take them+Rakarth completely out, one of the Haemys too, change some stuff around and put in another Ravager and Raider..

you shouldnt let a maulerfined near your grots. 5 Haywire wyches will kill a MF in a turn before it can strike.

Grots are great, you just have to avoid Str10.

It got into combat with my Grots in turn 1.. It ran all the way across the board and was immediately in combat with them, it was horrible.. I thought it was going to go for the Tau (3rd player), but it didn't.. Ugh... And I need to stay away from AP1 weapons too, which also removes their FnP, which seriously sucks .-. And I do Haemy Covens, I don't take Wyches, I also find that I could just use a Ravager for the same thing as Wyches, and do the job better, Wyches aren't so good in combat either, and Ravagers are more survivable in my opinion.

Why would AP1 weapons remove their FNP? Instant death will negate it, certainly, but not AP1.

I swear AP1 weapons remove FnP.. Or was that 5th edition??

5th ed. Only ID negates FNP this edition.

On the topic of wyches, if you're fine running ravagers(kabal) with your coven though, surely wyches would be fine as well, just make up some coven-themed fluff to fit them in! I run Talos without other coven units in my Baron wych cult list, the fluffy reason being that it's my Baron's pet! On wyches vs ravagers, well, wyches are guaranteed to take down any vehicle once they get up close, AV14 HP4, don't care, jink, nope, Tau's cheating stupid smelly cover save bonus(NOT BITTER), nope, the problem is just getting them up close, on the other hand, ravagers are great since you get to AT from turn 1, but 3 lances on BS4 means you'd really need those penetrating to take down most vehicles with one ravager...

I'm honestly not entirely sure how pure coven lists deal with mechs though!

Pure coven lists deal with mechs like this: I'm a S5 Grotesque, I'm unhappy..

Ooh, hey Urien, what's that, 5pts for S6?? Thanks! <3

Oh wow, Urien, your special rule gives me two whole pain tokens!! I get Furious Charge! WOW! I'm S7 on the charge!! I feel like raping a tank right now..

Aren't LR and some mechs AV14 all around though?

Baronyu wrote:
Aren't LR and some mechs AV14 all around though?

And to those I say: RAVAGERS AND RAIDERS, FORWAAAARD! (I want to hit them with my spear!)

I would suggest a Succubus despite what others say. She is a lot cheaper, not scratching 100pts with an agoniser and HW grenades. She can do what Grots lack, take down 3+ saves well, Use her super I for over running and running away (imagine grotesques doing back flips and summer saults). Keep Urien, add succubus and another grotesque and maybe upgrade to aberration with something fancy. Go, run into All those nids and laugh. Throw Urien into challenge with big beasties because he is T5 and nids have to smash to Instant kill him and if they do that, they half there attacks meaning you rolling a 3-4 on clone field utterly makes them useless. Vs. nids shadowfield is really unnecessary because they lack high strength shooting, Huskblade wounds on 6's and is expensive, and anything else the succubus does just as good for cheaper, better even because of a RELIABLE 4+ in combat.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
I would suggest a Succubus despite what others say. She is a lot cheaper, not scratching 100pts with an agoniser and HW grenades. She can do what Grots lack, take down 3+ saves well, Use her super I for over running and running away (imagine grotesques doing back flips and summer saults). Keep Urien, add succubus and another grotesque and maybe upgrade to aberration with something fancy. Go, run into All those nids and laugh. Throw Urien into challenge with big beasties because he is T5 and nids have to smash to Instant kill him and if they do that, they half there attacks meaning you rolling a 3-4 on clone field utterly makes them useless. Vs. nids shadowfield is really unnecessary because they lack high strength shooting, Huskblade wounds on 6's and is expensive, and anything else the succubus does just as good for cheaper, better even because of a RELIABLE 4+ in combat.

You put forward a very persuasive argument, and I'm suddenly wishing that I hadn't bought an Archon earlier today, when I next get an influx of cash (after buying those DAMN EXPENSIVE Wracks and some more Haemonculi+Rakarth) I will absolutely have to pick up a Succubus ;3 And I'm sure that the Succubus could beat a 110pt SM Captain in combat

For the record, no one will mind you using an Archon as a Succubus. All you need to do is put a wych head on him and an agoniser and say she wanted to put some clothes on because of the....sagging.

+ She wins easy, she'd whoop his white ass out of the her Ghetto! unless he has artificer armour...

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
For the record, no one will mind you using an Archon as a Succubus. All you need to do is put a wych head on him and an agoniser and say she wanted to put some clothes on because of the....sagging.

+ She wins easy, she'd whoop his white ass out of the her Ghetto! unless he has artificer armour...

Arghh, I want an Archon though, I'm gonna paint him up real good And, the Succubus model comes with an Agoniser anyway, which is really cool ^_^ I'll probably just proxy my Archon when and where until I actually get the Succubus model

Are you going all official models? Why not look for conversions? I used Chaos spawns, some vampire count large size ghoul things(forgot what they're called) and Talos's kits spare parts to build my grotesques. I've heard some people use dryads from WHFB wood elf army as wracks as well.

And come at me, ALEXisAWESOME, my Archon will kick your silly succubus's ass, blindfolded, one arm and drunk! [/joke]

Nah, I agree, if it's a cheap assault HQ that you want, and PGL isn't a concern, succubus is indeed a great choice, I've been trying to fit her into my lists as a secondary assault HQ these days.

I do quite like the official models, it's the sort of look I want.. And my bits box goes: Blood Angels, Space Marines, Grey Knights, Imperial Guard, Chaos Space Marines, Dark Elves, Dark Eldar and Tau.. Try and find a recipe of any of those that will make some Grotesques, Wracks, a Succubus or an Archon and I'll give you a damn award xD

As long as its fair point value, I'd be happy to take you on! Under 100pts leaves you with either a shadowfield plus venom blade or Huskblade plus drugs. 100 pts leaves a Succubus with power mace, blast pistol and about 20pts left over. Not counting drugs or charge that's 3 hits (5 attacks, hits on 3's) and 3 wounds (wounds on 2's) so a 1/2 chance to fail shadowfield, or 1 dead huskblade archon. Archon hits back *if he lives* with 2-3 attacks (5 attacks, hitting on 4's) and 2-3 wounds (wounding on 2's as huskblade would be dead) or 1-2 wounds if husky survives. With dodge venom blade wont kill her and there is an ok chance to save 1 huskblade wound. So say 1-2 wounds from V.blade, Succubus does same next round probabilly popping shadowfield and leaving her on 1 wound. Next turn she maces the Archon to the face!

My Succubus puts the bitch in bitchslap!

While wracks are often made of Dark Eldars, grotesques are often made of unwilling PoWs, so all those non-DE bits and parts could well be used to make some grotesques out, with aid with Green Stuff or similar product, I guess.

Succubus, well, it depends what you got left, I could see using wych bits and pieces with some Dark elves bits would work. Archon, kabbie with a cape? Give him a fancy helm from dark elves so he stands out!

Of course, it really depends on what these bits you got, if we're talking about bolters, chainswords, pulse rifles or whatever, then... Yeah, those'd be hard to convert with! And your willingness to experiment with green stuff will also matter, obviously. If I had some spare marines shoulder pads or chests, I'd probably put them on my grotesques, I'll say that the haemonculus want the marines to know for sure that they're fighting one of their own! *evil laughs*

Covens are like the gorey Orks, instead of collecting junks, they collect people!

EDIT: @ALEXisAWESOME ... but but.. same point value is cheating.. D: I need my 170 pts cap!

Fine, but I get two succubus's with a power maces. You will fail shadowfield beforeyou strike then next turn, surviving succubus beats the heck outta you Here's the kicker, Im still 10 pts under!

Wanna go higher? I could add a unit of bloodbrides to kick the ass of your incubi bodyguard as well

Baronyu wrote:
While wracks are often made of Dark Eldars, grotesques are often made of unwilling PoWs, so all those non-DE bits and parts could well be used to make some grotesques out, with aid with Green Stuff or similar product, I guess.

Succubus, well, it depends what you got left, I could see using wych bits and pieces with some Dark elves bits would work. Archon, kabbie with a cape? Give him a fancy helm from dark elves so he stands out!

Of course, it really depends on what these bits you got, if we're talking about bolters, chainswords, pulse rifles or whatever, then... Yeah, those'd be hard to convert with! And your willingness to experiment with green stuff will also matter, obviously. If I had some spare marines shoulder pads or chests, I'd probably put them on my grotesques, I'll say that the haemonculus want the marines to know for sure that they're fighting one of their own! *evil laughs*

Covens are like the gorey Orks, instead of collecting junks, they collect people!

EDIT: @ALEXisAWESOME ... but but.. same point value is cheating.. D: I need my 170 pts cap!

I guess I could tear up some old Ork models, some Nobz and stuff.. Yeah, because they have those weird techno heads, their buzz-saws and stuff would look quite cool, but I still want to field a nice unit of regular Wracks, because I am just IN LOVE with those models!! Especially the one with two heads, they just look so cool!

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Fine, but I get two succubus's with a power maces. You will fail shadowfield beforeyou strike then next turn, surviving succubus beats the heck outta you Here's the kicker, Im still 10 pts under!

Wanna go higher? I could add a unit of bloodbrides to kick the ass of your incubi bodyguard as well

You're mean and you smell... I'll go and hug my Baron as my beastpack can do me no wrong... My razorwings will eat your succubi for breakfast, lunch and dinner, and tea.. and that meal late at night if they're working overtime...

... Actually I won't, I might break them...

BrotherOfBone wrote:
I guess I could tear up some old Ork models, some Nobz and stuff.. Yeah, because they have those weird techno heads, their buzz-saws and stuff would look quite cool, but I still want to field a nice unit of regular Wracks, because I am just IN LOVE with those models!! Especially the one with two heads, they just look so cool!

Oh, I wasn't saying you HAVE to convert, was just suggesting that there are cheaper alternatives out there if you need, and coven is very convertable!

Baronyu wrote:

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Fine, but I get two succubus's with a power maces. You will fail shadowfield beforeyou strike then next turn, surviving succubus beats the heck outta you Here's the kicker, Im still 10 pts under!

Wanna go higher? I could add a unit of bloodbrides to kick the ass of your incubi bodyguard as well

You're mean and you smell... I'll go and hug my Baron as my beastpack can do me no wrong... My razorwings will eat your succubi for breakfast, lunch and dinner, and tea.. and that meal late at night if they're working overtime...

... Actually I won't, I might break them...

BrotherOfBone wrote:
I guess I could tear up some old Ork models, some Nobz and stuff.. Yeah, because they have those weird techno heads, their buzz-saws and stuff would look quite cool, but I still want to field a nice unit of regular Wracks, because I am just IN LOVE with those models!! Especially the one with two heads, they just look so cool!

Oh, I wasn't saying you HAVE to convert, was just suggesting that there are cheaper alternatives out there if you need, and coven is very convertable!

I know coven is very convertable, I just think that all the models look really, really cool! And, I'm not one for conversions.. Probably the biggest conversion I ever did was GK+Sanguiniary Guard=Mephiston, and even that wasn't very good.. And, I'm not so good with green stuff either... But yeah, I'm perfectly happy with my normal GW models xD And, I might wait a few years before I start experimenting with big old conversions, beef out my bitz box and stuff

Husk Blade, Combat Drugs, Soul Trap, Shadow Field. Very killy