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I kind of brought up this question (in miniature) in the Tau FAQ collection thread, but I wanted to expand it with full information to see what everyone else thought when presented with the situation and all of its rules.

First off, the rules for Vehicle Drones in the Tau codex says:

"Some vehicles include two drones -- these start the game attached to the vehicle.

Attached Drones
Whilst attached to the vehicle, drones are treated as embarked passengers (although they don't count against a vehicle's Transport Capacity). This means that while they are attached, they can make shooting attacks as if they were passengers shooting from Fire Points, using their location on the vehicle to determine line of sight, range, etc. Unlike other models shooting from Fire Points, attached drones must shoot at the same target as the vehicle they are attached to. Target Acquired abilities used by a Tau vehicle, or vehicle squadron, also apply to any attached drones in the unit.

Detaching Drones
During any friendly Movement phase, drones may detach from their vehicle in the same way as Infantry disembarking from an Open-topped Transport. All drones from a vehicle or vehicle squadron must detach at the same time -- they then form a single new unit."


That alone seems pretty simple, right? The attached drones are basically like an embarked unit, and therefore they would fire at a different time than the actual vehicle model (they just have to fire at the same target as the vehicle).

But here's where it gets confusing (to me, at least). In the Vehicle Battle Systems section, there is an item called Point Defence Targeting Relay. Its rules say:

"Point Defence Targeting Relay
A vehicle with a point defence targeting relay can fire Overwatch, but only with weapons of Strength 5 or less. If the vehicle has any attached drones, they may also fire Overwatch with weapons of Strength 5 or less. In addition, the vehicle has the Supporting Fire special rule."


So now I'm confused. The Point Defence Targeting Relay seems to indicate that you need to take that item in order to allow the attached drones to make overwatch attacks...but the rules for a transport vehicle specify that if a vehicle is charged, then its passengers (which the attached drones count as) get to make overwatch attacks.


So what do you all think? Is this just a case of the Point Defence Targeting Relay rules just being redundant and not 'remembering' that the core rules for passengers allow them to make overwatch attacks when their vehicle is charged?

Or is it really supposed to be that attached drones just fire like passengers, but are still *not* considered a separate unit from the vehicle (until they detach), which means the attached drones have to fire at the same time the vehicle fires in the shooting phase, and would therefore explain why the rules seem to indicate that they can't make overwatch attacks unless the vehicle has the Point Defence Targeting Relay.


OPTION A: Attached Drones are treated like a passenger unit, so I think the Point Defence Targeting Relay rules are redundant for them, as they should already be able to fire overwatch because they are passengers on a vehicle and therefore can fire overwatch if that vehicle (or another Tau unit within 6" is charged because the drones have the Supporting Fire rule themselves). This also means the attached drones can fire at a separate time from their vehicle in the shooting phase (provided they fire at the same enemy target, of course).


OPTION B: Attached Drones only fire like embarked passengers, they are not actually a separate unit until they detach from the vehicle. That means they would not be able to make overwatch attacks if the vehicle (or another Tau unit within 6") is charged unless the vehicle has the Point Defence Targeting Relay. This also means the Drones while attached should fire at the same time as the vehicle (as they are not a separate unit from the vehicle at that point).


OPTION C: Something else entirely. Reply what it is below.

I think its just a case of general oversight, i remember seeing something else in the tau dex that seemed like a redundant point, cant remember what it was now, but yeah, writer forgot the rules and added that point in

Option B.

Vehicles cannot make overwatch attacks and the Tau need the PDTR in order for their vehicles ( apart from Longstrikes ) to be able to do so.

Bobug wrote:
I think its just a case of general oversight, i remember seeing something else in the tau dex that seemed like a redundant point, cant remember what it was now, but yeah, writer forgot the rules and added that point in

That's what I thought at first as well, but I'm not too sure now.

Look at the following parts of their rules (emphasis mine):

"Target Acquired abilities used by a Tau vehicle, or vehicle squadron, also apply to any attached drones in the unit."

and:

"During any friendly Movement phase, drones may detach from their vehicle in the same way as Infantry disembarking from an Open-topped Transport. All drones from a vehicle or vehicle squadron must detach at the same time -- they then form a single new unit."


Those two instances make me not so sure...as they seem to indicate that Attached Drones are 'in' the vehicle unit (not a separate unit that happens to be attached)...only when the Drones actually separate do they actually form a NEW unit...this also explains why the attached drones all die when the vehicle is destroyed, because until they detach they are considered to be part of the vehicle unit.

Possibly it was added as confirmation that 'Fish drones could overwatch, since the vehicle isn't Open-topped and (I believe) doesn't have any Fire Points?
The "Attached Drones" rule you quoted sort of covers it, perhaps they were just making it clearer?

{Edit} That would kind of make the PDTR wording kind of redundant, eh, I'm not even sure anymore.

I voted B because when you detach you form a new unit and thus the drones are part of the vehicles unit until then. They also gain benefit from MLs so for me they need to fire at the same time as the vehicle.

But this is at best a stab in the Dark as to what the actual rules are. This interpretation seems consistent with every inference in the codex but is far from cast iron.

I voted B as again, unlike passengers, whenever the vehicle is wrecked/destroyed, the drones do not disembark and are simply destroyed. It seems that they are treated as passengers except for... everything?

I voted option A. The Point Defence Targeting Relay is just being redundant. They can fire overwatch normally.

 Jimsolo wrote:
I voted option A. The Point Defence Targeting Relay is just being redundant. They can fire overwatch normally.

Agreed, i think the main purpose of this rulle is to give the main vehicle Overwatch and Supporting Fire.

However based on the wording on this rule, I think any drones that have any weapon stronger than Str 5 (missile drones)lose that ability to shoot Overwatch because of this piece of wargear, where as if not for this item they normally would be able to shoot in Overwatch.

It could go either way as far as RAI in my opinion. I think the RAW supports option A, as following that doesn't break any rules (since you are told to treat them as embarked passengers and embarked passengers may fire overwatch.) Following option B, you are ignoring those two things and nothing really specifically tells you to do so. But it is as equally likely that option B was the actual intent, and it's just poor writing/editing.

Just out of curiosity (since I'm away from books). Is there anything that allows the drones to fire normally if the vehicle moves more than 6"?

 Happyjew wrote:
Just out of curiosity (since I'm away from books). Is there anything that allows the drones to fire normally if the vehicle moves more than 6"?

From the codex: "Drones are treated as embarked passengers. This means that while they are attached, they can make shooting attacks as if they were passengers"

However, they need to fire at the same target as the vehicle.

also: "All drones from a vehicle or vehicle squadron must detach at the same time - they then form a new unit"
"Drones that started the game attached to a vehicle do not award Victory points when destroyed, in addition your oppoment only need to destroy the vehicle to get the victory points and not the drones aswell"

Plus Drones have Relentless for being jet pack infantry, if that means anything.

Also it says: "Target Aquired abilities used by a Tau Vehicle, or vehicle squadron, also apply to any attached drones in the unit"

Dracoknight wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
Just out of curiosity (since I'm away from books). Is there anything that allows the drones to fire normally if the vehicle moves more than 6"?

From the codex: "Drones are treated as embarked passengers. This means that while they are attached, they can make shooting attacks as if they were passengers"

However, they need to fire at the same target as the vehicle.

also: "All drones from a vehicle or vehicle squadron must detach at the same time - they then form a new unit"
"Drones that started the game attached to a vehicle do not award Victory points when destroyed, in addition your oppoment only need to destroy the vehicle to get the victory points and not the drones aswell"

Plus Drones have Relentless for being jet pack infantry, if that means anything.

Also it says: "Target Aquired abilities used by a Tau Vehicle, or vehicle squadron, also apply to any attached drones in the unit"

I'm going to take that as a no then.

I voted A. I think the wording of the PDTR is redundant/misplaced - if that wording wasn't there, the assumption and rules would be that attached drones could indeed fire overwatch/supporting fire. Changing the core way they function based on a piece of upgrade wargear seems odd.

@HappyJew. No; there is nothing in the Tau codex to indicate that they fire anything other than snap shots if the vehicle moves at Cruising Speed. This isn't really too bad, as the only attachable drones are BS2 anyway. However, it leads to the 'odd' situation of Interceptor Drones being restricted to snap shots while attached to their Sunshark unless it moves *exactly* its minimum 18" - or they can fire at full ability after the Sunshark moves 36" and they use their 'rapid deployment' rule to detach at the end of/during a cruise movement.

C i guess since it's a combination of A and B.
A. because they are a separate passenger unit with some funky targeting rules.
B. Because those targeting rules limit them to shooting whatever the vehicle is targeting, as such if the vehicle can't target something, because say it cannot overwatch, they can't do it too even if they themselves would be able to overwatch had they been following the basic passenger rules.

Didn't read anyone else's comment but personally I'd go option B myself.

The Drone is on the vehicle in place of weapon systems so until such time as they seperate from the vehicle I'd say they were weapon systems.

On a side note, what's peeps opinion if the drones are actual passngers on the vehicle?
Personally I think those drones can fire overewatch but someone disagreed with me
(case in point a drone squad or FW/PF's with Drones)

Dand218 what fire points do those drones fire out of?

 FlingitNow wrote:
Dand218 what fire points do those drones fire out of?

The Drone rules specify where their FP is located.

Really where does it state the fire points for embarked drones. I can see attached drones not embarked ones. Please high light to me what I am missing.

Id say a combination of A and B. The drones are part of the vehicle's unit until they separate, and the pdtr rules are redundant because they can already fire overwatch.

 FlingitNow wrote:
Really where does it state the fire points for embarked drones. I can see attached drones not embarked ones. Please high light to me what I am missing.

That it states you treat them as embarked passengers.

? They are embarked passengers it says nothing about them. So where are the fire points for embarked passengers?

You are told that the drones are treated as embarked passengers, and tells you what the drones have for fire points. So when you try to find out hw they fire you look up embarked units -> that tells you to look for attached drones -> that tells you how they may fire.

? Nos are you looking at a different book to me? Why would embarked drones gain the rules for attached drones?

 FlingitNow wrote:
? Nos are you looking at a different book to me? Why would embarked drones gain the rules for attached drones?

There seems to be some confusion here. I was under the impression you were asking where the drones attached to the vehicle fire from, not where drones embarked in the vehicle from.

I was addressing Dand218 claim that embarked drones would get to overwatch. How could that have anything to do with attached drones?

 FlingitNow wrote:
I was addressing Dand218 claim that embarked drones would get to overwatch. How could that have anything to do with attached drones?

Reading fail on my part?

Fair enough at least it wasn't a typing error on my part

Hiwpi is that the drones can fire overwatch on thier own. However, if the vehicle they are attached to has the pdtr the the drones fire overwatch with the vehicle that can now also fire overaatch. In both cases the drones are part of the vehicle's unit until they separate.

 FlingitNow wrote:
Dand218 what fire points do those drones fire out of?

They wouldn't. The Tau Devilfish has no firepoints.
It was more a hypothetical conversation. If the Devilfish did have fire points would the embarked drones have overwatch. I favoured yes my flatmate favoured no.