Switch Theme:

Abortion doctor convicted of murder  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/13/18232657-abortion-doctor-kermit-gosnell-convicted-of-first-degree-murder?lite

One sick, twisted situation.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

Was just getting ready to post this story.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/13/justice/pennsylvania-abortion-doctor-trial/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

A Philadelphia abortion provider who killed babies by cutting their spinal cords with scissors was found guilty of first-degree murder on Monday.

The conviction on three counts of first-degree murder means Dr. Kermit Gosnell, 72, could be sentenced to death
...
Gosnell also was accused in the death of Karnamaya Mongar, 41, who died of an anesthetic overdose during a second-trimester abortion at his West Philadelphia clinic. In that case, the jury found him guilty of involuntary manslaughter.

Gosnell, who is not a board-certified obstetrician or gynecologist, was also found guilty of 21 counts of abortion of the unborn, 24 weeks or older.
...
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




Sounds like a regular house of horrors being run by this guy.
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

Disgusting...

I also find PP's and NARAL's response very telling...

Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

I think PP statements are reasonable, NARALs I don't agree with.
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 d-usa wrote:
I think PP statements are reasonable, NARALs I don't agree with.

Nothing about the babies... that's what I was referring to about PP's response... but, what would you expect?

NARAL was despicable.

Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
Hallowed Canoness





The Void

This guy... the three murders he was convicted of for the infants were live births followed by what a witness from his staff called... beheadings basically.

I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long


SoB, IG, SM, SW, Nec, Cus, Tau, FoW Germans, Team Yankee Marines, Battletech Clan Wolf, Mercs
DR:90-SG+M+B+I+Pw40k12+ID+++A+++/are/WD-R+++T(S)DM+ 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
This guy... the three murders he was convicted of for the infants were live births followed by what a witness from his staff called... beheadings basically.

I know... I just saw some pictures that were shown to the jury from the clinic.

I thought I had a strong stomach... I almost barfed by looking at those pictures.

I ain't posting them here... so don't ask.

Don't go looking for it, unless you have a strong stomach... and a punching bag nearby to vent.

Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
Hallowed Canoness





The Void

The stupid bit on this case is pro-choice types who are really stupid are rallying up and defending him, one individual I saw was all "This should just be a malpractice case, typical neocon witch hunt."

I face palmed so hard I knocked myself out for a couple hours.

I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long


SoB, IG, SM, SW, Nec, Cus, Tau, FoW Germans, Team Yankee Marines, Battletech Clan Wolf, Mercs
DR:90-SG+M+B+I+Pw40k12+ID+++A+++/are/WD-R+++T(S)DM+ 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

I'm pro-choice, and I think that people like him will be the standard if the pro-life crowd gets what they want.

But he is a killer, pure and simple. He didn't follow any of the laws, about anything. The truth really is that this is not a case about pro-abortion or anti-abortion, it's a man with zero morals violating every law he can.
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
The stupid bit on this case is pro-choice types who are really stupid are rallying up and defending him, one individual I saw was all "This should just be a malpractice case, typical neocon witch hunt."

I face palmed so hard I knocked myself out for a couple hours.

Right with you man... ugh.

I'm also reading this... I didn't know about it... It's the Mother's Day Massacre:
Safety is one of the most potent defenses of Roe v. Wade, the 1973 U.S. Supreme Court decision that imposed a national policy of abortion on demand. Women had abortions even before it was legal to do so, the argument goes, but restrictive laws forced them to go to back-alley quacks. In this view, the story of Kermit Gosnell, the Philadelphia abortionist on trial for the murders of one woman and seven infants, is a cautionary tale about illegal, not legal, abortion. The facts tell a different story.

Back-alley abortion was indisputably a problem before Roe. Deep in the 281-page report that accompanied the 2011 indictments of Gosnell and his staff, the Philadelphia grand jury recounted an example from the city's history.

It was called the Mother's Day Massacre—the brainchild of Harvey Karman, an eccentric California man without medical training who had served 2½ years in prison for performing illegal abortions in the 1950s. Karman teamed with a young Philadelphia doctor who offered to perform abortions on 15 impoverished women, each between four and six months pregnant, who were bused to the Philadelphia clinic from Chicago on Mother's Day 1972.

What the women didn't know was that they were guinea pigs for a device Karman had invented, which he called the "super coil." He had tested it only on wartime rape victims in Bangladesh, where he had traveled under the sponsorship of the International Planned Parenthood Federation.

Complication rates were high, and little wonder. A colleague of Karman's Philadelphia collaborator described the contraption as "basically plastic razors that were formed into a ball. . . . They were coated into a gel, so that they would remain closed. These would be inserted into the woman's uterus. And after several hours of body temperature, . . . the gel would melt and these . . . things would spring open, supposedly cutting up the fetus."

Best of the Web Today columnist James Taranto on the murder trial of Philadelphia abortionist Kermit Gosnell. Photo: Getty Images
As in Bangladesh, the Philadelphia experiment was a failure. Nine of the 15 women suffered serious complications. One needed a hysterectomy.

The following year, the Supreme Court decided Roe v. Wade. It would be 37 more years before the Philadelphia doctor who carried out the Mother's Day Massacre would go out of business. His name was Kermit Gosnell.

The advent of "safe, legal abortion" didn't interfere with Gosnell's back-alley career. The grand jury's account suggests that other abortionists treated him less as an outlaw than as a niche player in the abortion market. He earned a bad reputation in Philadelphia but received referrals from across the Eastern Seaboard. Many of the women dispatched to him were "well beyond" 24 weeks pregnant, the legal limit in Pennsylvania.

"Gosnell was known as a doctor who would perform abortions at any stage, without regard for legal limits," the grand jury reported. "His patients came from several states, including Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, and North Carolina, as well as from Pennsylvania cities outside the Philadelphia area, such as Allentown. He also had many late-term Philadelphia patients because most other local clinics would not perform procedures past 20 weeks." The woman Gosnell is accused of murdering with a drug overdose, 41-year-old Karnamaya Mongar, came from Virginia and was referred by a clinic either there or in the District of Columbia.

The grand jury did not name any of the clinics, hospitals or doctors who made referrals to Gosnell, except for a Delaware clinic where he also worked part-time. Its narrative suggests, however, that "legitimate" abortionists routinely availed themselves of Gosnell's services to help their patients evade legal and ethical limits on late-term abortion. This may be a fruitful subject for legislative investigation, either in Harrisburg or Washington.

According to the grand jury, Gosnell's method of "abortion" in these late-term cases was infanticide, plain and simple. He or an untrained staffer would induce labor, deliver the baby alive, and then perform the procedure they called by the chilling euphemism "snipping"—slashing the infant to death with scissors to the neck and spine. "Over the years, there were hundreds of 'snippings,' " the grand jury found. But bodies had been disposed of and files destroyed, so the evidence was sufficient to prosecute in only seven cases. One of those victims, a neonatologist testified, was a boy of "32 weeks, if not more, in gestational age." That is, his mother had been at least 7½ months pregnant.

Why were these horrors allowed to persist for decades? Even if the infanticides had been concealed, there were ample other irregularities in the clinic's operations, including filth, unsanitized instruments, unqualified staff and dangerously inappropriate use of drugs. When the clinic was finally raided in 2010, it was the result of a federal narcotics investigation.

Part of the reason for the regulatory failure was simple bureaucratic indifference or incompetence. Inspectors from the Pennsylvania Department of Health visited several times between 1979 and 1993, noted problems, and didn't bother following up. But after 1993, the inspectors never reappeared until the 2010 raid. The reason was political.

In 1994 Tom Ridge, a pro-abortion Republican, was elected governor, succeeding the antiabortion Democrat Bob Casey. According to the grand jury, Ridge administration officials "concluded that inspections would be 'putting a barrier up to women' seeking abortions. Better to leave clinics to do as they pleased." The new policy did away with all regular inspections of abortion clinics. Mr. Ridge's lassitudinous approach was bipartisan, continued by his successor, Democrat Ed Rendell, who resumed the inspections only after the 2010 raid.

Prosecutors are seeking the death penalty for Gosnell and have already obtained guilty pleas from eight of his former staffers. The grand jury's report should also be seen as an indictment of America's post-Roe abortion industry. Its indifference—at best—to legal limits made possible the deaths of untold numbers of babies, lending credence to the argument that legal abortion is a slippery slope to infanticide.

Meanwhile, the claim that Roe v. Wade made America safe from back-alley abortion stands exposed as a cruel hoax, and a deadly one for women and children alike.

Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
Hallowed Canoness





The Void

I concur, this man isn't a doctor of any kind, and he didn't practice abortion as proscribed by law, morality or sanity, he is simply a butcher.

I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long


SoB, IG, SM, SW, Nec, Cus, Tau, FoW Germans, Team Yankee Marines, Battletech Clan Wolf, Mercs
DR:90-SG+M+B+I+Pw40k12+ID+++A+++/are/WD-R+++T(S)DM+ 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 d-usa wrote:
I'm pro-choice, and I think that people like him will be the standard if the pro-life crowd gets what they want.

But he is a killer, pure and simple. He didn't follow any of the laws, about anything. The truth really is that this is not a case about pro-abortion or anti-abortion, it's a man with zero morals violating every law he can.

Well... I'd also put blame on the State's Health Regulatory board...

They gave his clinics (and others in PA) basically carte blanche on how to operation at will.

That needs to change.

EDIT: I just really hope there isn't anymore of "people like him".... but, it's hard not to wonder.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/05/14 04:07:31


Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
Hangin' with Gork & Mork






The only pro-choice comments that I have seen in the quoted in the press have been in condemnation of those guy.

It isn't a surprise, though, that both more donkey-cave zealots of the pro-choice and anti-choice movements are trying to make political hay out of this.

Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




I remember my high school library had abortion literature with the same kind of pictures. One I remember vividly was of a child's arm that had been sliced off with a clenched fist. The total stuff of nightmares.
   
Made in th
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot






Abortion should be monitored by doctors, not priests nor politicians.

 d-usa wrote:
I'm pro-choice, and I think that people like him will be the standard if the pro-life crowd gets what they want.

But he is a killer, pure and simple. He didn't follow any of the laws, about anything. The truth really is that this is not a case about pro-abortion or anti-abortion, it's a man with zero morals violating every law he can.


He's convicted, when will the sentences be carried out? it is possible that he might be sentenced to death, an aide girl SHOULD be sentenced the same way.
it is the process of abortion that is explicitely murder.

here in Thailand. the illegal abortion clinique is still widely available readily serving pregnant 'loose girls' of every races staying in Thailand at any given time. Abortion will be legal ONLY AT THE HOSPITAL DOCTOR DIAGNOSED THAT THE PREGNANCY CAN BE LETHAL TO A WOMAN, ones that a loose girl (including prostitutes "sideline" girl, and / or 'rental concubines) enters to 'cut loss' is illegal in Thailand.
There were one case of abortion that a deceased baby looks like whites, the 'loose girl' who went to abortion clinique still remains at large, the most shocking however, was the 2,000 corpse at Wat Pai Ngern, all dead bodies were actually 'aborted babes', a mortician was later captured, the incidient also lead to the raid on an abortion clinic, 'doctor' and crews captured. I don't think they will be sentenced to death (despite that the death sentence still exists here) because he is likely to be convicted with less serious allegations relating to medical practices. the doctor and the crews may get 20+ years in jail at minimum (and then again, he will be released within 8 years... he will get leniency just like many inmates)

As a buddhist. the abortion MUST be controlled tightly, loose girls were prematurely pregnants must be 'detained', and later marked so they must be taxed in a high rate. this might prevent teenmoms.
But as a anti-conservative. Prostitution MUST be legalized, prostitutes should suffer a high tax rate (which also judged by service fees, low class street hos should be taxed at 12%, middle market ones should pay at 35%, High class should pay at 50%

What say you?



http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/408342.page 
   
Made in us
Hallowed Canoness





The Void

 Lone Cat wrote:
Abortion should be monitored by doctors, not priests nor politicians.

 d-usa wrote:
I'm pro-choice, and I think that people like him will be the standard if the pro-life crowd gets what they want.

But he is a killer, pure and simple. He didn't follow any of the laws, about anything. The truth really is that this is not a case about pro-abortion or anti-abortion, it's a man with zero morals violating every law he can.


He's convicted, when will the sentences be carried out? it is possible that he might be sentenced to death,


He hasn't been sentenced yet, and yes with multiple counts of murder under his belt he might be sentenced to the death penalty. Not that it matters, any prison term for this guy's a death sentence given his age.

I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long


SoB, IG, SM, SW, Nec, Cus, Tau, FoW Germans, Team Yankee Marines, Battletech Clan Wolf, Mercs
DR:90-SG+M+B+I+Pw40k12+ID+++A+++/are/WD-R+++T(S)DM+ 
   
Made in ca
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord





This man isn't a doctor; he's a serial killer with a clever setup. This case had nothing to do with pro-life or pro-choice.
   
Made in th
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot






^ He can't call himself doctor because he has no license of profession. Every nation on earth mutually agreed that doctors need license of profession, even without any deaths incurred to the treatments, he, along with his crew, is a quack.



http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/408342.page 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

He has (or had at the time) a license.

So if you are going to be all hyperbole in this thread, and least get the facts of the case straight.
   
Made in de
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 azazel the cat wrote:
This man isn't a doctor; he's a serial killer with a clever setup. This case had nothing to do with pro-life or pro-choice.


Exactly.

   
Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator




Ephrata, PA

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
 Lone Cat wrote:
Abortion should be monitored by doctors, not priests nor politicians.

 d-usa wrote:
I'm pro-choice, and I think that people like him will be the standard if the pro-life crowd gets what they want.

But he is a killer, pure and simple. He didn't follow any of the laws, about anything. The truth really is that this is not a case about pro-abortion or anti-abortion, it's a man with zero morals violating every law he can.


He's convicted, when will the sentences be carried out? it is possible that he might be sentenced to death,


He hasn't been sentenced yet, and yes with multiple counts of murder under his belt he might be sentenced to the death penalty. Not that it matters, any prison term for this guy's a death sentence given his age.


Being from Philly, the general reaction here (minus the tard's blindly defending him) is to lynch the guy. Even if he just gets life he wouldn't last a week, but the prosecutor will probably push for the death penalty, which he does apply for here in PA.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/14 12:03:20


Bane's P&M Blog, pop in and leave a comment
3100+

 feeder wrote:
Frazz's mind is like a wiener dog in a rabbit warren. Dark, twisting tunnels, and full of the certainty that just around the next bend will be the quarry he seeks.

 
   
Made in us
Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions






 azazel the cat wrote:
This man isn't a doctor; he's a serial killer with a clever setup. This case had nothing to do with pro-life or pro-choice.

Pretty much. I wonder if there'll be new legislation in the wake of this, like after Harold Shipman

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
The stupid bit on this case is pro-choice types who are really stupid are rallying up and defending him, one individual I saw was all "This should just be a malpractice case, typical neocon witch hunt."

I face palmed so hard I knocked myself out for a couple hours.

Nothing like knowing which battles to pick....

 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

I doubt new legislation. After all he's going to jail no?

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions






 Frazzled wrote:
I doubt new legislation. After all he's going to jail no?

Harold Shipman also went to jail too, and his actions caused the NHS to review and modify their procedures, especially concerning certain drugs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Shipman


 
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

In the Shipman case it led to a review of how GPs' death rates are evaluated.

Shipman was killing a lot of old ladies, so his practice had an elevated death rate -- i.e. life expectancy was lower than could have been expected.

The new rules are supposed to ensure that such discrepancies are spotted and investigated as early as possible.

It's not a new law. It was already illegal to kill old ladies, and that is why Shipman got prosecuted.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

You could be right.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions






 Kilkrazy wrote:
In the Shipman case it led to a review of how GPs' death rates are evaluated.

Shipman was killing a lot of old ladies, so his practice had an elevated death rate -- i.e. life expectancy was lower than could have been expected.

The new rules are supposed to ensure that such discrepancies are spotted and investigated as early as possible.

It's not a new law. It was already illegal to kill old ladies, and that is why Shipman got prosecuted.

It was more than just that which was changed after Shipman - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1079351/

Shipman did not maintain a controlled drugs register, and claimed that he did not carry opioids. The routine inspection of general practice drug registers and storage facilities had lapsed, and there was no system in place to track the use or disposal of drugs after dispensing. Consequently, Shipman had little difficulty in illicitly obtaining sufficient diamorphine to kill over 200 people through prescription fraud and the appropriation of unused diamorphine from patients or their families.

Some people did make complaints against Shipman. To the best of my knowledge, these included an upheld complaint for failure to visit in 1992, and another in 1995 about incorrect treatment that was not pursued. In 1989, a case of negligence was settled by the payment of a six-figure sum. A complaint in 1985 also reached the General Medical Council (GMC). None triggered a detailed assessment of Shipman's clinical performance. Furthermore, the pattern of complaints was never identified. No single agency had responsibility for identifying and recording them all. The unconnected systems for dealing with complaints worked to protect Shipman from detection, rather than protect his patients from harm.

In addition to system failure, some systems that might have protected patients were non-existent. There was no system to monitor mortality rates, and no system for assessment of the standard of records or the recorded care given to deceased patients. Finally, there was no satisfactory system to provide adequate objective evidence about performance. Appraisal and revalidation were not in operation, clinical audit was voluntary and limited in focus, and only a restricted range of routine data were available—for example, prescribing and referral patterns.

The environment—or culture—was also deficient. The group practice in Hyde operated largely as six single-handed doctors working in the same partnership, and whilst this provided a highly personal service, the opportunities for informal peer review were restricted. When he moved to the single-handed practice, Shipman was even more protected from review by colleagues. It was virtually impossible for his employed team of nurses and clerical staff to recognize what was happening, let alone challenge him when patients died unexpectedly. Community nurses and health visitors also lacked the information and authority to challenge him. In the community, people who may have had concerns did not feel able to raise them: a taxi driver who noticed that many of his elderly clients who were Shipman's patients died unexpectedly, and a funeral director who noticed that many of Shipman's patients had been found dead, dressed, sitting in chairs, in the afternoon, could not at first believe there was a problem and later did not believe that anyone would listen. When given the opportunity to raise the alarm in 1994 in the case of a woman admitted after the inappropriate administration of diamorphine, hospital services did not raise concerns with the primary care trust (PTC) or the GMC.

There was, then, a failure of some systems, an absence of other potentially useful systems, and a culture that served to inhibit both suspicion in response to unusual events and the expression of concern if any suspicion did arise. In considering the underlying reasons for this combination of factors and what should be done in response, I will deal with issues at the level of the individual patient and doctor first, and then the level of the public and the medical profession in general.

Anything in the last three paragraphs sound like they could apply to Gosnell?

 
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

 Frazzled wrote:
I doubt new legislation. After all he's going to jail no?


Only for a while, hopefully.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in gb
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps





South Wales

And by "only for awhile" we mean the crotchbiters will have their way with him.

Prestor Jon wrote:
Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent.
 
   
 
Forum Index » Off-Topic Forum
Go to: